Just got finished playing a friend's Orc deck and it wasn't pretty he kick my butt. By getting lord of change out on turn two. Or getting grimgor on turn three and blowing up all my supports it's too much. The orcs can kill your units they can kill your supports all the while burning you with snotling invasion you just can't do much back. I feel like the high elves might be able to do something because of all the negating ability but the high elves aren't that strong in general so what do u do. Sorry I felt like I had to vent a little. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts. Thanks for listening I feel a little better.

Orcs are good, but not overpowered.

Really I disagree the fact that the orcs can blow up the whole field and do it well I call that overpowered. Especially since no other race can do it too.

No other race? Verena much?

Verena does blow up the field but 1. There has to be no developments in those zones 2. The orcs play everything for free the empire doesn't

1 Development are no problem for Empire: long winter, will of electors etc.

2 What is everything for free?

Mork's teef ritual gets grimgor out. Wurrzag get troll vomit out for free. You just blew up the field wurzzag is still standing and you paid a whopping 0 resource points. If not over powered it's very very close.

Ritual is a spell that can be cancelled, requires a unit and deals damage to capital.

Playing Wurrzag has a drawback with burning 3 zones.

Yes, Wurrzag is the best orc build right now and can easily dominate the game if you play all your economy cards at once, because sooner or later against (really any) orc deck the Grimgor and Vomit are gonna hit the table.

Right now meta is balansed and by no means orcs dominating other races.

Of course there are draw backs to playing these cards but the rewards more than out weight the draw backs. Mork's teef can be can cancelled but so can anything. Requires any unit including a zero cost unit and then out comes grimgor or The Lord of change, so sack a zero or one cost unit and out comes a six cost unit as early as turn two ( for free ). And yes wurzzag has to burn all zones but when your opponent has nothing on the field burning three zones isn't that hard is it. And don't forget about snotling invasion again free.

Like u said you shouldn't put all your economy cards out because sooner or later you will get blown up against the ORCS.

I mean they are so good that they bet a infinite combo deck. A deck that FFG never meant to be in the game.

They only bet our infinite combo deck because they had early Grimgor in discard with Liber Mortis.

Also it was not the best inifinite loop, not the one that won Polish Championships.

At that championships I was seventh, best orc.

Dark Elf hand control eats Wurrzag alive.

Having grimgor in discard early and getting him out early and for free is what I'm talking about that is what makes the deck over powered. All u just said was the only reason they bet the infinite deck was because they had their deck doing what it is suppose to do. Not the best infinite loop but still good enough to beat dark elves in the semi final, and get to the final, plus any infinite loop deck is not suppose to exist in and TCG. Dark elf hand control can eat any deck alive if a player has no cards he can't play. So the only way to beat wurrzug is to eat your oppents hand at least their is one way.

any infinite loop deck is not suppose to exist in and TCG.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Dark elf hand control can eat any deck alive if a player has no cards he can't play. So the only way to beat wurrzug is to eat your oppents hand at least their is one way.

I don't mean destroy whole hand, no deck can do that.

Also you can not draw Wurrzag if the deck hates you (3 copies in last 10 cards).

I feared that Wurrzag deck winning 20 something people world championships would cause such topics as this one. Orcs aren't even the strongest faction right now, however usually beginners see them as OP (troll vomit, grimgor so imba...although these are cards from core set etc.).

Although I agree Liber Mortis should be restricted.

In every TCG that I have played infinite loop decks are always banned when they appear. I've seen it I yugioh, vs system, and others. Infinite loop decks just break games that's why the last empire loop deck was restricted.

I think that having these strong cards in the core set is good so that new people starting the game can get good cards when just starting out. And I think your right when u said that if you don't draw your cards( wurzzag, troll vomit ect) the deck can't work, but you can't use not drawing the card or having to have two cards in your hand as an excuse to say the deck won't work if...to me the orcs aren't over powered because they can do this or that it's because they can do everything very well and for very little cost or for free. I am not sure about the liber Mortis being restricted but what do u think about this, restrict troll vomit and grimgor, and remove wurrzug from the list, this way you can play wurrzug but you have to choose between blowing up supports (grimgor), blowing up units(troll vomit), saving your units(unending horde).

This has been real fun discussing this with you I don't know why no one else is jumping in on this.

PS... I think I want to start another thread about how the high elves are better than everyone thinks. You think people will discuss it?

I am not sure about the liber Mortis being restricted but what do u think about this, restrict troll vomit and grimgor, and remove wurrzug from the list, this way you can play wurrzug but you have to choose between blowing up supports (grimgor), blowing up units(troll vomit), saving your units(unending horde).

Wurrzag without vomit will be unplayable (he will be killed by opposing units). Also Wurrzag is almost mandatory for orc now: orc has weak units and worst supports in game, it needs cheap legend economy. Unending Horde is on restricted list just because of Wurrzag, it's not overpowered and not as strong as other restricred cards.

PS... I think I want to start another thread about how the high elves are better than everyone thinks. You think people will discuss it?

I know I will

The title amuses me. Orc wow, much imba.

I also think Orcs are not overpowered atm. Worlds was a 21 players tournament. Another 2 DE were in Top 4, but no other Wurrzag Deck. We shall wait for other big tournament results in FAQ 2.2.

Of course it is hard to deal with Wurrzag. Ritual, Liber, Get outta my Way, Morglor and even Arcane Power can work as a defense for the legend. But there are ways and also Wurrzag Decks usually are not very consistent and tend to have sh*tty hands from time to time. Some of them decks are using up to 20 tactics, which causes severe problems when undergoing some harass. Getting rid of a single Wurrzag can be enough. At worlds semi finals it was a close battle between my Crone and Gardine's Wurrzag. One slightly better hand discard could have sealed the deal in my favour. Also i did some small misstakes DE is at least as strong as Orcs are.

The only thing that is concerning me right now is this Dominance of 3 cost legends, that leads to a rather small variety in decks. Orcs cant be played without Wurrzag, DE cant be played without Crone. Also Wurrzag + Invasions though not being imba strong, does not feel well to play against. It's just wrong

I think that wurrzag and snotling invasion together is very hard to get around. If you can get out two snotling invasions at once it becomes a battle to stay in the game. If the third one comes out it's almost a matter of time.

I agree it is clunky but when wurrzag has the morglor attached and smashes with a recurring troll vomit it just ends the game like that sadly

Feels very helpless