More or less a discussion of what we all want to see for this coming season. As in-direction of game, types of attacks, foundations, assets, actions.

What do I want to see the most? The return of powerful CHARACTER ONLY attacks, or CHARACTER ONLY text on card effects (Like for Multiples or Powerfuls). Think back in the day, to a certain attack called Buster Wolf. 7/3 for 4mid 7 damage with All, Order, and Water. Obviously, it was Terry only. Now, stat wise it doesn't look like anything great. But, it sports a Desperation 5 and POWERFUL 4. Powerful 4! That's right. One momentum=+4 damage. Nowadays, that attack would be rather insane (Wild Wolf Terry has Air. He gets all the nice Air momentum gen tools. And he's got all. So he gets BRT. =D). What balanced that attack? It was Terry Only. And, unfortunately, back then Terry was rather sub-par (as a matter of fact, I think Wild Wolf Terry is the only playable Terry we've seen). So Buster Wolf never really saw play.

Now, the reason I mention this is because part of the reason the game is having issues is that all the competitive decks that share a symbol with Feline Spike will be running it. If you're not using Feline Spike in a deck that can use it, and that said deck isn't a Mill deck, you will not do well in that tournament setting. It's a sad fact, but it's a true fact. Spike is just that necessary to the great decks AS OF NOW (we don't know what Set 12 has to hold). Feline Spike should have been Felicia Only, or at least the Multiple text should have been Felicia Only.

Coming to my conclusion. Why would these immensely powerful Character Only attacks be good? Simple-it will promote the use of more characters. Some characters we have in our rotation are decent, at best. For example, take E. Honda. a 6/30 with a damage reduction effect and a good symbol spread. While good, I don't think he's really anything to write home about. Say an attack is made for him, like a variant of Multiple Fists of DOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM!, or Ochicho Throw. Let's take his thousand hand slap just to make the example easier. Let's say it was a 6/2, 4mid 5 damage, multiple 3. All of a sudden, E. Honda looks a bit more attractive in his own right because he has a powerful finishing attack that is exclusive to himself. He becomes more than just a character that can be used to sandbag into Donovan.

Now, this idea isn't something new. Look at the most recent set with Chun-li. Hoyoku-Sen is AMAZING. And guess what? The Multiple part of the attack is Chun-li only. You won't see Hoyoku-Sen in other decks, but in a Chun-li deck, the card excels. It makes Chun-li even more special, in addition to her second effect.

EDIT: 6 Swallow Flash is another good example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. a 7/2 4 high 5 dmg multiple 3 attack that is Ukyo Only.

Feel free to add to what you want. I only ask that we please do not turn this discussion into a ban/errata this topic. I want PRODUCTIVE discussion here, not crying about how broken this or that is. If the thread degenerates into that, I'll ask to have it deleted.

Remy's attack is nuts with him, another good example.

But I dont disagre with you, powerful char only cards are rad, there is a few of them, Combat programming is another amazing char only card, Stars aligned, and a few others. They exist, but there isn't that many. A few are good within their support, but that can be limiting in its own way.

Spike isn't the ONLY way to win tho, while there isn't a ton of kill conditions, there is a few that are just as viable as spike, and yes are better then spike for certain chars(even ones who can use spike).

Spike is just the definitive attack of air decks right now, and is also frequently splashed, I think as the cardpool opens up more you'll see other decks iwth other kill conditions then spike, even tho they could use spike(I know two or three great examples of that currently)

So long as we dont get Suzie Q again, or like a chain throw thats limited to one person I'm ok with it. Just because its limited, it still needs to be considered for balance sake. Suzie Q was never balanced, and thats probably the character only attack that saw the most play. XDNL is most likley my perfect example of a character only attack. Strong for its stats, useful ability, comes in a starter deck, not just a finisher.

I have liked also character onlys in the past like Fatal Gravity, Ground Shave Rolling, Hellcat (before spike that is), Knee Press Nightmare (this card is seriously almost as good as spike, why it never saw play...), SUper Deadly Ninja Bees, and Turning suicide (i want cards like this to come back).

Hmm...

6 handers need much stronger abilities. Their handsize has almost always been their downfall, and the attempt to boost their vitality has meant next to nothing. 6 handers need abilities that really push the envelope (think the two Yun-Seongs).

Lower-tier symbols need support much like SNK Set 1 gave. As it stands, UFS is much like Third Strike, in that only a few symbols are good, and that, in those symbols, there exist very few win conditions since the most popular options are pretty much the only options.

Assets need to be better in order to be ran. Not Olcadan's good, more Nadeshiko good.

Every card needs extremely good stats to correlate to their good abilities. By now, FFG should have figured out that a large majority of cards don't see play due to their stats.

No more crutches (Feline, Defender, etc), and no more stupid asshattery (Rejection). Crutches discourage you from playing the game as it was meant to be played, and gets rid of character uniqueness. As for Rejection, for those of you who saw its original design (4/4 +3-LOW, no breaker), you saw that it was plenty balanced, like a Backflip or something. However, they changed it, and now look at it. 3/5 +2-LOW Breaker: 2? No, F no. A Breaker rating should never be equal to or greater than its modifier, firstly. Secondly, its ability is far too good to be granted so many free bonuses like that.

That's all I got for now.

more character only cards definately. i think every character should have atleast one character only card. and weak characters should have awesome character only cards (alba and arogance). we need 4 and 5 check atacks. i would personaly say that even though clones was unbalanced, we need something like that. less blocks. we have to many power card that have +0 or +1 block modifiers. less characters (we have already been promised this.)

My hope is simple: Aggro become a viable play-style on a competitive level yet again. I don't mind Control; i play it rather well. But, i'm tired of seeing a match go to time, and the conversation goes like this:

Tournament Organizer: "Okay, who won?"

Player 1: "Uhm...we're still playing...?"

T.O.: "Okay, who won the first round of this match?"

P.1: "This IS the first round of the match".

Happens more frequently than it should, imo...

Thanks for all the input so far guys. I certainly agree with all that has been said.

Jeremy-thanks for the veteran input. I will certainly not contest your points.

Fred-Agreed. XNDL is another prime example of what I mean. Definitely one of my favorite character only attacks in the game. And yes, Suzie-Q was far too powerful with a character that was already very potent on her own.

Shinji-I love the point on Assets. Nadeshiko was among the best Character-Only assets of it's time, and it was so nice to see that Yoshitora was playable and made great use of it. Otherwise, good points.

Trane-I wouldn't go as far to say that 4 check and 5 check attacks should be brought in. Attacks have always been low CCs, and they should remain as such. Feline Spike, for example, mostly escapes the eternal wrath of players since it has a 1 check. While not a balancing factor, it sure makes people happy when a 1 is checked on an important check. Clones, while incredibly powerful, had a few things working against it. It had no block, was a slow mid speed attack, and was Olcadan's Fodder.

and finally, to my hero for what he said, Rockstar. I want the same thing too, man. All my success in UFS has come via aggro-minded decks. Fireball Kohls, Talim, Air Yun-Seong, Air Sagat and a few other decks-they were the decks I've done best with and know how to work. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with bringing back that level of play. It would certainly add some spice back into the game, and I'm more than certain that many people would love to see the return of aggro-minded play.

HolyDragonCloud said:

agrro needs 4 and 5 check atacks to break through the wall of control. Aggro will not be viable for a long time if it runs 12-16 3 checks or lower.

I would tend to think that the problem doesn't lie with the control checks on attacks, rather the wall of control. It should never be possible to build a deck that can win without running some low control checks. But this is really a problem for another thread (and for that matter I think it's been covered before, lol)

Back on topic, I hope this game stays classy.

trane said:

Is two weeks to a month a long time? Because I get the feeling there will be a deck that can viably run 20-25 3 checks. But I'm a bad player... so you should probably ignore me.

Ken Punch comes to mind. =p

Antigoth said:

well, clearly i overlooked this deck archetype. my entire UFS career has been with a wall of control, so i don't really know how a succesfull low check deck would work. I still think that something like clones, that doesn't have order, chaos, water, evil or air would be welcome.

Aggro decks don't need 4 and 5 check attacks.

Aggro deck players need to find their balls and start playing more aggressively.

Archimedes said:

There is potential for this to be put into my sig. High potential.

Agreed xD

I pretty much agree with your very first post. You even mentioned 6 Swallow Flash <3 Hoyoko-Sen is definitely a move in the right direction - very straightforward, good, and still well balanced. Thumbs MF'in up, Monsieur Hata. NOW GIVE GEESE SOMETHING LIKE THAT >=/

But I also miss really awesome utility cards with great effects but average to really crappy stats, like Devil Reverse (OMFG I love this card), or Lance de Leon. Shoulder Rush and Timmy's are already back...isn't it time for Roundhouse Kick MK II, Friends and Rivals Redux, Nadeshiko, and, most importantly...MISDIRECTION? A return to the power level of some of the rotated cards seems to me like it would be great! Maybe not another Ukyo (you know I love you bby), but something like Athena, or Astaroth (the good ones), Nagase (promo is insanely good), SR Bison, etc. These cards are what's drawing me back into Legacy format to begin with; why not have some things like that in Standard as well?

God I'm gonna miss a lot of block 2 cards D;

I'm kinda bummed about next set being Tekken/SC, though. Was so looking forward to a new SNK set. The possibility of a new Charlotte *sigh*

Buuuut...with that out of the way, I am very anxiously awaiting block 3. I think Guile said it best...

GET IT ON

Lance De Lion used to be my bridge attack into Shoulder Rush and Timmy's back when i ran Death Nakodoodle. I didn't like the prospect of Roundhouse Kick (outside of my Fireball Kohls deck, I had serious issues with running 2 checks back in the Legacy days. Don't ask.)

Friends and Rivals is my single most favorite foundation ever. EVER.

Andrew (DaiAndOh Andrew) made a Haohmaru Tutor deck with Penny Arcade and Devil Reverse. It was that kind of deck where if it set up, the game was over, but it took WAY too long to setup. It required all 4 penny arcades out as quickly as possible, recursion tools for Devil Reverse, 2 Close to the Edge, and a Leaping Commando Kick. The kill condition should be obvious at that point.