Using vader after you have been killed and have no risk/reward is one thing but combing it with gunner and being able to target two ships is a huge imbalance.

... in the rulebook it says that you apply damage cards one at a time and the ship is removed immediately (discarding all damage) as soon as damage is equal or higher than the hull¹

¹ The FAQ is an exception to the rule, for what happens if the ship remains due to equal PS, in which case you carry on playing any remaining damage, rather than stopping at 0 Hull

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical

damage than is needed to destroy it, are

the excess Damage cards still assigned to

that ship?

A: Yes. This means that a ship still in the play area

due to the Simultaneous Attack Rule can be

affected by additional faceup Damage cards.

That's not how I interpret it.

According to that FAQ question, ships suffer all damage (more damage than needed to destroy it), and are dealt all damage cards (excess damage cards are still assigned to it), one by one, but all cards.

And additionally, in the case of S.A.R, the 'extra' cards can affect the "not-destroyed-yet" ship's return fire. Note the period between the 'Yes' to the original answer (which is not related to SAR, but to suffering damage), and the additional aclaration from Devs, for SAR cases.

Look carefully at p16 of the Rulebook it states clearly

p16 rulebook: When a ship suffers damage or critical damage it suffers them one at a time

When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than it's hull value the ship is immediately destroyed. Immediately remove the destroyed ship from the play area, discard all of it's Damage cards to a faceup discard pile next to the Damage deck

The rules are very clear that you apply damage cards one at a time and AS SOON as you get to the hull value it's removed immediately, there is no way you can play a damage card to a removed ship.

SO what is the FAQ saying. Well it says

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical damage than is needed to destroy it, are the excess Damage cards still assigned to that ship?

A: Yes. This means that a ship still in the play area due to the Simultaneous Attack Rule can be affected by additional faceup Damage cards.

It's not saying you can carry on applying damage cards to removed ships, that would be impossible as they are not in the game any more. It's saying if for some reason the ship remains in play you carry on playing damage cards on it. In other words the hull is not a cap. It then goes on to give an example of one of the situations where this could happen, IE. when the Simultaneous Attack Rule is in effect.

FAQs are designed in general to clear up confusions, not entirely rewrite the rules. Occasionally there are Erratas but they are the exception not the rule. In this case they are clearing up what happens if the ship is still on the board after it's hull is exceeded.

It's not saying you can carry on applying damage cards to removed ships

Sorry, that's exactly what it is saying.

There is after all a . after Yes, so the answer is a simple "yes" to the question, you keep dealing how ever many cards the damage requires, even though the ship is destroyed.. It then goes on to further describe something that might happen due to this rule.

So you have a question, and the answer to that question is yes. The text after that doesn't change the answer at all.

The reason for this makes sense, because if you deal those cards, that's crits that have been removed from the deck.

The reason for this makes sense, because if you deal those cards, that's crits that have been removed from the deck.

Makes no statistical difference. But you have already by this point removed the card and discarded all the damage.. There is NO ship there to play the damage card on.

Makes no statistical difference.

Not sure I follow that.

If a ship needs 1 more damage to be destroyed, and I deal 3 damage cards to it, those 3 cards are no longer in the deck, so those are crits that have been removed that could cause an effect in the next turn.

So I'm not sure how that makes no difference.

there is NO ship there to play the damage card on.

Perhaps, but that's not what the FAQ says. The FAQ is pretty clear, that if a ship needs 1 damage to be detroyed but you deal 3 damage to it, you draw all 3 cards. 2 would simply be discared, but they're still removed from the deck.

If the answer was...

A: Yes, this means that a ship still in the play area due to the Simultaneous Attack Rule can be affected by additional faceup Damage cards.

Then you would be correct... But that's what it says, it says...

A: Yes. other text

It's a one word answer to the question, so there's no real room for interperation there.

Not sure I follow that.

If a ship needs 1 more damage to be destroyed, and I deal 3 damage cards to it, those 3 cards are no longer in the deck, so those are crits that have been removed that could cause an effect in the next turn.

So I'm not sure how that makes no difference.

Lets say you have 75% crits that don't do much and 25% crits that do 2 damage. The chance that card removed is 2 Damage is only 25%, so the chance of the cards getting worse is 25%, the change of them getting better is 75%. But if you deal 4 cards you are likely to get 3 weak crits and 1 good crit, so over 4 and if you do get this it all evens out and the percentage composition of the deck doesn't shift.... If you do all the maths the Deck on average remains entirely the same percentage good an bad cards throughout the game no matter how many cards you deal. I've heard stuff like this a lot. Playing cards does change the composition of the deck, but over every game you play it entirely averages out. And as you can't run out of cards as they reshuffle. Playing those extra cards makes no statistical difference.

Are there still damage cards to play next turn, yes.

Does the chance of them doing 2 damage change if you play extra cards, on average no.

It makes NO statistical difference.

Playing those extra cards makes no statistical difference.

Ok, I'll buy that. Statistics isn't my thing, so if you have done the maths I'll take your word on it.

Face-up Critical cards DO change the probabilities significantly. Technically, all the cards do but only the face-up cards are available for analysis during the game.

For example, I have dealt 6 damage with 4 Criticals so far this game. 2 face-down damage, 1 Structural Damage, 1 Munitions Failure, and 2 Blinded Pilots. If I had initiative and were to destroy my opponent's Scimitar with my Rookie before it has a chance to fire its Concussion Missile, but have another Rookie (or 2) with a good shot on it, I might consider fishing for a good result that would stop that ship from firing its missile at me. However, knowing that there are 0 Blinded Pilots left in the deck and only 1 Munitions Failure, I would know that each Critical would have at best a 1/27 chance of stopping that missile from going off. On the other hand, if those 4 Criticals had NOT been any combination of Blinded Pilot/Munitions Failure, I would have a better than 1/7 chance of stopping the missile with every Crit.

As for face-down cards, the more cards remaining in the deck the more dramatically the face-up cards alter odds. Also, I am not sure that you reshuffle. Last I heard, when you run out of cards you simply kept track of damage by stacking crit tokens, but your ships would no longer be vulnerable to crits. That is a pretty big deal when players can (and do) run 5 or 6 TIE Bombers.

Since I'm the one that started this thread, i would like to take the opportunity to point out, that the only thing clear here is that the official wording of the FAQ is not unambiguously clear.

The reason I posted the question in the first place was to ask if anyone had gotten and "unofficial official" clarification from FFG sources at Worlds, since I know some people did similar things at GenCon by asking James Kniffen direct questions.

The answer is NO, so therefore I think everyone should play it as they think best until the next FAQ comes out, which will undoubtedly answer some of these burning questions while making many more obfuscations.

Sources tell me the next FAQ will be published sometime in the first quarter of 2047.

The real question is if you can carry on playing cards where do they go. The ship has been removed, all the cards and counters on it have been discarded. In gaming terms it doesn't exist.

Having written FAQs in the past for a gaming company (not going to say which), there is a real science to it. The question is just as important as the Answer. In this case the question is

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical damage than is needed to destroy it, are the excess Damage cards still assigned to that ship?

Now in the case of the ship being removed, there is no ship for the cards to be assigned to. So this question can only really cover the situation where the ship is still in play to have cards assigned to it.

Next you look at the Answer

A: Yes, this means that a ship still in the play area due to the Simultaneous Attack Rule can be affected by additional faceup Damage cards.

So they say Yes you can still assign cards to a ship (but if it's been removed there is no ship, so it can't refer to that situation). This is why they put in the comma and to clarify where this FAQ comes into effect. If you always put on all cards, as a designer I would phrase the FAQ Answer. "Yes, you always play all damage cards, any excess are discarded"

The rules are very clear that you apply damage cards one at a time and AS SOON as you get to the hull value it's removed immediately, there is no way you can play a damage card to a removed ship.

The rules doesn't say 'as soon as damage = hull'...The rules say "when damage is equal or greater".

Read carefully again the FAQ, and note how the question is not if ships can suffer more damage than hull. The very same question assumes they can. The question is what happens to the 'excess' cards (The question also assumes there WILL BE excess cards because the ship suffered more damage than needed to destroy it)... And the answer is 'YES'... you have to deal them regardless of the ship being destroyed.

Period

And then, if under SAR, a clarification/reminding that face up cards do indeed affect the 'not-yet-destroyed' ship.

As for face-down cards, the more cards remaining in the deck the more dramatically the face-up cards alter odds. Also, I am not sure that you reshuffle. Last I heard, when you run out of cards you simply kept track of damage by stacking crit tokens, but your ships would no longer be vulnerable to crits. That is a pretty big deal when players can (and do) run 5 or 6 TIE Bombers.

KO it says on page 16. (Note: If the Damage deck runs out, shuffle the discard pile to create a new deck)

The rules are very clear that you apply damage cards one at a time and AS SOON as you get to the hull value it's removed immediately, there is no way you can play a damage card to a removed ship.

The rules doesn't say 'as soon as damage = hull'...The rules say "when damage is equal or greater".

Read carefully again the FAQ, and note how the question is not if ships can suffer more damage than hull. The very same question assumes they can. The question is what happens to the 'excess' cards (The question also assumes there WILL BE excess cards because the ship suffered more damage than needed to destroy it)... And the answer is 'YES'... you have to deal them regardless of the ship being destroyed.

Period

And then, if under SAR, a clarification/reminding that face up cards do indeed affect the 'not-yet-destroyed' ship.

You can go from having less than hull straight to more than hull in a single card if you play a crit that counts as 2 damage. But it clearly says "cards are played one at a time" and "When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than it's hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed." If you follow both of those rules...

• You deal 3 damage
• You play the first damage card
• You check hull it is equal to the ships hull
• It's immediately removed from the game and it's damage put in the discard pile.
• You attempt to play a second damage card, there is no ship to put it on. so you can't play it.
• You attempt to play a third damage card, there is no ship to put it on. so you can't play it.

There is no way you can play a damage card on a ship that doesn't exist as far as the game is concerned. However if it's not destroyed, you can carry on playing damage on it even though the hull has already been exceeded.

The other situation this FAQ would come into effect for is Fel's Wraith, who remains in play to take a shot before being destroyed.

Also, I am not sure that you reshuffle.

I was currious about that. Here's the only thing I've been able to find in the rules or FAQ. In the rulle book this is on pg 16

Note: if the damage deck runs out, shuffle the discard pile to create a new deck."

You attempt to play a second damage card, there is no ship to put it on. so you can't play it.

Sorry RM, but you are wrong, the FAQ is very clear on this.

Perhaps this is a case of the FAQ rewriting the rules, but there's no question that the FAQ says you deal cards equal to the amount of damage done, even if the ship is destroyed before you finish dealing those cards.

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical damage than is needed to destroy it, are the excess Damage cards still assigned to that ship?

A: Yes.Period, end of sentence.

The other text here doesn't change the answer. So your list simply does not work per this FAQ answer.

You attempt to play a second damage card, there is no ship to put it on. so you can't play it.

Sorry RM, but you are wrong, the FAQ is very clear on this.

Perhaps this is a case of the FAQ rewriting the rules, but there's no question that the FAQ says you deal cards equal to the amount of damage done, even if the ship is destroyed before you finish dealing those cards.

I don't believe it is at all, I believe it's not in the scope of the original Question being asked. You are taking Yes to refer to all damage, but the Question really only covers damage that could be assigned. you need a target for damage to be assigned.

I don't believe it is at all...

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical damage than is needed to destroy it, are the excess Damage cards still assigned to that ship?

There's no provisions or condistions listed in this question. It's simply a matter of what happens to excess damage. It's not talking about damage that could be assigned, it's quite clearly addressing damage in excess of what's needed to destroy the ship.

It even uses the term "excess damage card" in the question. So clearly it's not talking about damage that could be applied.

Yes.

Period, full stop. There is no room for interperation here.

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical damage than is needed to destroy it, are the excess Damage cards still assigned to that ship?

There's no provisions or condistions listed in this question. It's simply a matter of what happens to excess damage. It's not talking about damage that could be assigned, it's quite clearly addressing damage in excess of what's needed to destroy the ship.

Well there is, it says that you assign it to a ship. So I would say it's conditional on there being a ship.

So I would say it's conditional on there being a ship.

If that were true, then the answer no longer makes sense. Because the anwser isn't "Yes if the ship is still there." It is simply Yes.

It even mentions excess damage, as in more then is needed to destroy the ship.

So I would say it's conditional on there being a ship.

If that were true, then the answer no longer makes sense. Because the anser isn't "Yes if the ship is still there." It is simply Yes.

The answer if fine. The answer is to the Question and the Question is conditional on there being a ship. In a few situations a ship can have it's hull equaled or exceeded and still be in play. If you have Fel's Wraith it remains in play until it has shot, as there is a ship the condition of the Question is met and you carry on assigning cards. If the ship you have equaled or exceeded the hull of is the same PS, it's still in play so the condition of the Question is met and you can carry on assigning damage cards. The reason there is a second sentence in the Answer is to help give the Q&A clarity, by giving an example of a situation where the condition of the Question are met.

It even mentions excess damage, as in more then is needed to destroy the ship.

In both of these situation the damage is in excess of what is need to destroy the ship. so both the Fel and the Simultaneous Attack Ruling are in line with this sentence.

NOTE: This is a FAQ answer, not an Errata like the Barrel Roll ruling in respect to obstacles. FAQ answers, can clarify a situation that is not clear, and even in some cases expand on the rules, they shouldn't overwrite core rules. Which your reading of it does, it either rewrites the the ship being immediately removed, or the cards being played one at a time.

Seriously, people, can we stop making arguments by saying "the rules are very clear on this..."

The answer is to the Question and the Question is conditional on there being a ship.

No it's not, and your serriously grasping at straws to make that argument. The question is quite clear, and no where does it mention that this only counts in a few cases.

It talks about excess damage, not excess damage if the ship is still around due to some other rule. If this only counted in those cases you list, then there is no need for this question, and the answer does not make sense. Because in that case the answer should be "Yes, if the ship is still in the game"

they shouldn't overwrite core rules.

Says who? The FAQ doesn't say such a thing. No where has FFG said that the FAQ is only valid if it doesn't conflict with the rule book. In fact in every case it's considered to supercede the rulebook.

Even if you could make the argument that it shouldn't do such a thing, that is not the same thing as saying it can't do such a thing.

Page 21 supports re shuffling crits back into the deck.

"Asteroid obstacle tokens, all cards, plastic ships, bases, and pegs are limited by the quantities included in this game box. If players run out of any other tokens, they may use a suitable replacement (such as a coin or bead) as a substitute. If players would roll more dice than the maximum number they have available, keep track of the results showing and reroll the dice necessary to equal the total number of dice the player would have rolled all at once. Note that these dice are not considered rerolled for the purposes modifying dice (see “Modifying Dice Results” on page 12). In the unlikely event that there are no Damage cards remaining in the deck or discard pile, change all results rolled to results. Use a suitable replacement to track additional damage until the deck is replenished" (Page 21)


So yes you re shuffle the discard pile to make a new deck what discard pile? The discard pile your about to create when a ship is destroyed.

What happens when you destroy a ship?

"When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total). Immediately remove the destroyed ship from the play area, discard all of its Damage cards to a faceup discard pile next to the Damage deck, and return all of its tokens to their respective supplies. exception: See “Simultaneous Attack Rule" (page 15)

Q: If a ship suffers more damage or critical damage than is needed to destroy it, are the excess Damage cards still assigned to that ship? A: Yes. This means that a ship still in the play area due to the Simultaneous Attack Rule can be affected by additional faceup Damage cards

Read the entire faq answer its a big Yes for simultaneous attacks only anything else is as per page 15.

Yes for simultaneous attacks only anything else is as per page 15.

Please point out where it says this.

Because once again, the answer is "yes." not "Yes, with the following conditions." So I'm really currious how you can claim to read these conditions into a one word answer.