This came up in a game the other day, where the players were trying to convince a mob boss who ran a casino that the PC's weren't cheating when they won a landspeeder. Technically one of the PCs felt destiny guide them to the slot machine due to the force, but the player didn't even *know* that.

I realized that none of the skills really fit what they were trying to do, and there is a lack of the usual 'convince' talents that normally come with an RPG.

For example, it wasn't a negotiation - they weren't trying to barter or trade anything, and it wasn't coercion as they weren't trying to intimidate him. It wasn't deception since they were telling the truth. It wasn't even charm, as they weren't trying to be charming or give puppy dog eyes.

So what would you have told them to roll? I told them they could pick charm or negotiate, whichever was higher, but it definitely didn't feel right.

Not everything gets a roll. There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE. At best, Perception might provide clues that point toward the answer, but even then it doesn't come down to "on a success you know if the target is being truthful" like some games allow.

Seems like Charm would be a good option.

Not everything gets a roll. There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE. At best, Perception might provide clues that point toward the answer, but even then it doesn't come down to "on a success you know if the target is being truthful" like some games allow.

I think this may an awesome idea - you could have the PCs roll a Perception check to 'how to prove' to the Crime Lord that their story is true. Obviously, if they succeed how to prove that they are telling the truth is up to you. They could also spend a Destiny Point for 'evidence'...

HappyDaze is right, the core rulebook doesn't have a solution or skill for every situation, which is one of the reasons why it allows for custom skills.

Player would roll skullduggery vs the casino bosses Vigilance

Well, every conversation is a negotiation of one sort or another and getting someone who is hesitant to believe you is still an attempt to overcome their resistance to be convinced regardless of whether or not you're telling the truth. If you're telling the truth, or at least you believe your telling the truth, you should get a Boost die or two on whichever skill (Charm or Coercion) the player chooses.

Player would roll skullduggery vs the casino bosses Vigilance

Skullduggery is more a physical skill set rather than a talk based one, though I can see it being part of a deception to distract like some magicians do.

Not everything gets a roll. There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE. At best, Perception might provide clues that point toward the answer, but even then it doesn't come down to "on a success you know if the target is being truthful" like some games allow.

If you were going to insist on rolling for it, I like Negotiation or Charm more than Perception. Those are more about being silver tongued. Perception is better used to detect lies/truth than to smooth talk your way through an encounter.

Having said that, I'm not sure you need to roll on this one. If you were invested in the PCs swaying the opinion of the boss via an action, why not have them roleplay it out for you? If they can cobble together a halfway believable story, they succeed. If they can't, they fail. They might not even need to know they failed until the thugs show up a bit later to rough them up.

I had that come up here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93137-when-an-npc-is-lying-their-butt-off/?p=903416

In that case the NPC used Perception against the PC's Cool. Perception to see if they could properly read the PC, and Cool to see if the PC doesn't overplay it.

I had that come up here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93137-when-an-npc-is-lying-their-butt-off/?p=903416

In that case the NPC used Perception against the PC's Cool. Perception to see if they could properly read the PC, and Cool to see if the PC doesn't overplay it.

This idea works too... And opposed Perception check by the NPC against the Face's 'Cool' or 'Vigilance' would actually make good sense...

Cool is a good idea. I also would have called for charm checks, but ultimately, if your players are big roleplayers, have them just RP the conversation with the boss. If the players are convincing than the boss should be convinced.

As HappyDaze said, not every action should translate to a roll. For social challenges, I've seen GMs never call for dice rolls unless a player is stuck and not sure what to say or do. It's up the GM ultimately. If failure could make for an interesting story, than call for a roll, in this case charm to soften the situation, cool, to keep a level head, Negotiation to smooth things over, or maybe just a raw presence check to see how trustworthy you may appear.

I had that come up here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93137-when-an-npc-is-lying-their-butt-off/?p=903416

In that case the NPC used Perception against the PC's Cool. Perception to see if they could properly read the PC, and Cool to see if the PC doesn't overplay it.

This idea works too... And opposed Perception check by the NPC against the Face's 'Cool' or 'Vigilance' would actually make good sense...

I like this, it could also be Coercion vs Cool if the boss was a paranoid lier himself and expected everyone to lie...

This is very clearly charm or cool

Deception is the art of using both Truth and Lies to get the target to. in order to deceive you have to have a basic understanding of what the truth is, the Best lies being 99% truth 1% lie.

or

Charm- the ability to use other predilections against them while bringing them to your own point of view.

Deception is the art of using both Truth and Lies to get the target to. in order to deceive you have to have a basic understanding of what the truth is, the Best lies being 99% truth 1% lie.

or

Charm- the ability to use other predilections against them while bringing them to your own point of view.

I always lie. In fact I'm lying now...

There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE.

Discipline covers detecting lies.

There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE.

Discipline covers detecting lies.

After further reading, the core rulebook states that "Discipline: ..is used for sorting truth from fiction and determining when someone is lying (and not letting oneself be swayed by those lies)"

So its players Deception skill vs casino bosses Discipline

There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE.

Discipline covers detecting lies.

After further reading, the core rulebook states that "Discipline: ..is used for sorting truth from fiction and determining when someone is lying (and not letting oneself be swayed by those lies)"

So its players Deception skill vs casino bosses Discipline

The problem the OP is having that there was no deception. From the sound of things, the PC was trying to convince the boss that the PC was not cheating, which was the truth. I would not call for a deception check on my player. Simply because my player would immediately ask "Why?".

Exactly. I would just make it an Easy Cool/Discipline check from the casino boss, adding Bonus or Setback die based on other circumstances, i.e. one of the other characters in the party being a known gambler or having big gambling debts known to the manager, or if he knew them personally before and thought they were generally upright people.

Wouldn't the way the player is trying to convince the other person be the source of the roll?

Charm, Coercion, Deception, Leadership and Negotiation are our social skills that would all be possible means to convince the other of you telling the truth when they suspect a lie. Perhaps as the GM you don't ask them to make a roll but ask them what they say? Then base the role on their words and actions?

Wouldn't the way the player is trying to convince the other person be the source of the roll?

Charm, Coercion, Deception, Leadership and Negotiation are our social skills that would all be possible means to convince the other of you telling the truth when they suspect a lie. Perhaps as the GM you don't ask them to make a roll but ask them what they say? Then base the role on their words and actions?

Yes. Any of those skills can be used to convince someone of something. It is the method which is different.

I agree that it should come down to the approach the character uses.

I would go with Charm if they went for the straight "please believe me" angle. A lot of that comes down to how well you express yourself as a trustworthy person. Someone socially inept could be telling the truth and come off as deceptive just as much as a skilled liar can appear innocent.

That's just my take, though.

Why not just use a cool check? It represents the characters ability to remain calm and possibly making believable the veracity of his claim

I have been using charm for "persuasion" type skills. Depending on circumstances I could see using cool, or negotiations. It depends on how the players approach the problem.

Not everything gets a roll. There is no 'lie detector' skill in EotE. At best, Perception might provide clues that point toward the answer, but even then it doesn't come down to "on a success you know if the target is being truthful" like some games allow.

I think this may an awesome idea - you could have the PCs roll a Perception check to 'how to prove' to the Crime Lord that their story is true. Obviously, if they succeed how to prove that they are telling the truth is up to you. They could also spend a Destiny Point for 'evidence'...

HappyDaze is right, the core rulebook doesn't have a solution or skill for every situation, which is one of the reasons why it allows for custom skills.

I like the idea of using the Destiny Point as a source of Intuition/Sense Motive - which is kind of what this is. If they don't have one available... then they'll just have to stay in the dark on their suspicions

I'll be using that next session!