Okay RedFive back in brainstorm mode. this is a theory and has not been put to practice or play test yet. this is the THREAD for R&D on this item, so...lets talk.

this would be a good promo item or maybe a new die that could come with a new weapon upgrade or skill upgrade or a new class of card a WEAPONS MODIFICATION card. the agility die could go with a new ship or a ships modification so any ship could take it. or maybe it could be sold as the two dice set with the upgrade cards and a few pilots for already exsisting ships, tournoment prize....the list goes on

its a single attack die and a single agility die.

each one has:

1. Attack( red): blank, blank, focus, focus, hit, crit, double hit, double crit.

2 Agility ( green): blank, blank, focus, focus, evade, evade, double focus, double evasion.

these dice are added to your pool so if your ship has three agility, you can take two basic die + the new agility die. Likewize with the attack die.

so what do ya think?

No. I don't want X-Wing to go through Wizkidification.

I could see it work for some wave 4+ models, but everyone has to have access to it.

Someone would have to do the math on creating 1/8 special results like you did, vs just switching a blank to a focus, or a blank to a hit/evade result. Seems like your proposed modification goes way too fast into powerful territory. There are already a lot of cards interacting with blanks and focus that any change has to be carefully weighted against all these options.

I was ruminating on this same topic last weekend. My buddy has access to a laser engraver and if he can use it a little for personal use he is going to make me the "purple die" and the "black die" we've been talking about. I just have to decide on how much better I would want the die to be.

I think double crit is a bit big. I think if you just turn that one back to a crit you're about right. Doubling the crit chance is a good start.

I like the double focus idea. Increases power but only subtlely.

How much better was the Attack Wing super (we never will want exclusive items for Xwing!) die?

And what would you want to see this costed at?

I have an idea of what I'd like to do with my dice, but I can't say it in public.

No.

That's somethign we've disscused a number of times now. A elite die, that has better odds then the normal one.

For the most part, people are generally ok with the idea, as long as the die itself isn't limited in someway, like it is with Attack Wing.

One idea is to provide that die with a new ship type, one with superior fire power, but not quite attack 4 superior.

Existing cards wouldn't be an issue, just use the old die for any rolls other then attack/defense rolls.

I'm with muon and the wizzkids thing.

First things first rhis die would have to be available ro everyone, perhaps when a ship is released with the skill it would come in the box.

Second i agree with the posdibiliry of being overpowered

I would lean towards a die with less blanks rather than double anything.

Perhaps extra focus or an extra hit or evade etc.

This would also tie in better with the die being used for an upgrade.

I think its mote likely we see skills that allow us to modify existing dice by turning blank results into focus or evade etc

Bit like advanced protons or concussion

No. I don't want X-Wing to go through Wizkidification.

I could see it work for some wave 4+ models, but everyone has to have access to it.

Someone would have to do the math on creating 1/8 special results like you did, vs just switching a blank to a focus, or a blank to a hit/evade result. Seems like your proposed modification goes way too fast into powerful territory. There are already a lot of cards interacting with blanks and focus that any change has to be carefully weighted against all these options.

No wizkid exclusives but the better die to represent more powerful/capable/upgraded/newer model ships is an excellent way to start differentiating ships so we don't have to go into 4-5 dice territory. I really like the idea because it only improves the % power increase by ~10% for a 2 die ship rather than a 50% increase by adding a whole other die. For the poor HWK it sold be a 100% increase in offense to add another die.

Extra focus is an easy convert to a hits in some builds and there are very few blank turning effects where this would not be as good. I really like the idea but we should All discuss the idea and throw down he math on it to see just how much better a 1 red + 1 purple or a 2 green + 1 black rolling ship should be.

Prize Dice... REALLY Bad idea...

However a new dice type, which certain elite fighters had instead of one red or one green, to represent better systems.. Hell yeah.

For example... make the Purple dice swap a black for a Crit. and the Black dice swap a blank for an evade.

Tie Defender 2R + 1P / 3G / 3 / 4

Tie Avenger 3R / 2G + 1B / 3 / 3

It's a good way to differentiate better ships without going up to 4 dice.

like i said, i never tried it, and it would be available to all players....imagine a weapons upgrade card that only works with say....turret weapons, for an additional 4-6 pts your HLC can now be upgraded and you can use the buffred up dice.

i understand that my ratios might be off a bit, i have never made a die before and i am not a probability or statistics champion.

its just a idea.

i do not like the idea of making the die a different color... that seems out of place. i would like it to remain the color for the catagory it fits, but just have adjusted ratios and have some kind of double evade, double hit.

hell i know it sounds monster but can you imagine a ship with a HLC that has been modded with the attack and it gets a double crit and you pull two direct hits.... who wants that to happen to them...no one, but when it does happen, the table roars and everyone is looking over thier shoulder like? what happened and your millienum falcon with chewy goes down in a pile of space rubble. its epic, just like this game.

ER... JINX.... we both posted almost identical posts at the same time Rakky Wistol

If I wasnt clear red five, I'm with you.

I think we all are generally.

The idea just needs some tweeking and this is the place to do it.

I'm sure wirh all the beautifully busy minds on this forum a pleasing result will occur

I'm with muon and the wizzkids thing.

First things first rhis die would have to be available ro everyone, perhaps when a ship is released with the skill it would come in the box.

Second i agree with the posdibiliry of being overpowered

I would lean towards a die with less blanks rather than double anything.

Perhaps extra focus or an extra hit or evade etc.

This would also tie in better with the die being used for an upgrade.

I think its mote likely we see skills that allow us to modify existing dice by turning blank results into focus or evade etc

Bit like advanced protons or concussion

Possibly, but on a ship type, I doubt we will see an extra rule.. but 2+1 in the attack, is far more likely.

I wouldn't make it quite as powerful as you've described, but I feel like something along these lines would solve the TIE Defender balance thread.

Why not just an extra black die that can be used for both evades and attack, but is nothing but focus results on half the faces? It would be equally good for offense and defense, and it would require an action (focus) to make it happen. Have it be a ship upgrade or something like enhanced whatever. Make it a 3 point, non-unique and non-ship specific upgrade ala the hull upgrade.

like i said, i never tried it, and it would be available to all players....imagine a weapons upgrade card that only works with say....turret weapons, for an additional 4-6 pts your HLC can now be upgraded and you can use the buffred up dice.

Turret HLC on a Y-Wing for 12 points? Sign me up!

Why not just an extra black die that can be used for both evades and attack, but is nothing but focus results on half the faces? It would be equally good for offense and defense, and it would require an action (focus) to make it happen. Have it be a ship upgrade or something like enhanced whatever. Make it a 3 point, non-unique and non-ship specific upgrade ala the hull upgrade.

I feel like we are getting there.

Perhaps a black die that has even less chance to hit than normal and then you might have

1) a pilot skill that let's you roll that die also when at range 1 or 2 or something or always

Maybe.

2) an upgrade that let's certain ships do that

If that is where you were going with the idea.

If not sorry and what about it as an idea.?

People sure love that Star Trek dice. I admit, it's a cool idea, but it may unbalance the game. One has to assume that the new dice will be used on the most powerful weapons, such as the HLC. This will give it a chance to 1 shot X-wings and TIE Advanced. It's going to eat TIEs for lunch. The game was balanced on 5 hits being extremely rare.

The game was balanced on 5 hits being extremely rare.

5 Hit's isn't that rare.

Jan can give any 3 attack ship 5 dice at range 1. The APT has 5 hits as well. So if the price is high enough the extra die would be balanced.

IMO the best way to deal with it, is have the elite die replace one of the existing ones, not add another.

HLC is still going to need a massive amount of luck to one shot a X or Tie Advanced. Even with 5 die you're seldom going to get 5 hits, and have the other person roll 0 evades. I'm sure someone can work out the math on that, but I coudln't do it...

The basic idea of an elite or black die is something I think FFG should look very closely at, it would allow them to add a lot of options to the game, without adding in a huge increase in power. Depending on how you do it, you could see a 10-15% increase in hits, which while useful is hardly what I'd consider to be overpowered.

People sure love that Star Trek dice. I admit, it's a cool idea, but it may unbalance the game. One has to assume that the new dice will be used on the most powerful weapons, such as the HLC. This will give it a chance to 1 shot X-wings and TIE Advanced. It's going to eat TIEs for lunch. The game was balanced on 5 hits being extremely rare.

They like the idea of a dice with a slightly different stat line.. which can be swapped in, in some cases. That is fine as long as they are careful where it is used.. I much prefer a dice that swaps a blank for a crit.. Doesn't increase number of hits possible, but makes those hits better.

I'm actually very nonplussed at the idea of adding power creep dice.

I'm actually very nonplussed at the idea of adding power creep dice.

It's not so much power creep dice. The reason I like it is it avoids power creep. The game is currently not quite granular enough.. a ship can be Attack 3 or Attack 4, so what do you do when you want a ship to be a bit better but not a whole number. At the moment you either up it to 4.. or don't do anything. an alternative dice allows you to do slight modifications without upping the max total hits you could get.

The game is currently not quite granular enough..

I think that's the single biggest flaw with X-Wing, it's not nearly granular enough. I'd of perfered to see most everything increased by a factor of 10 for points anyway. Not sure about the stats but the range of 1-3 is just a bit too small IMO.

At least they went with something other then the d6, which always bugs the crap out of me... Expect peole to spend $150-300 on models and rules then spend countless hours painting those models. But then use dice they found in a old copy of Monopoly... When something like a d8, or d10 offers so much more room for modifications.

A +1 to a d6 is quite a bit different then a +1 to a d10, a +2 even bigger.

Edit: Forgot the point...

The idea of an elite/black die gives FFG the ablity to add a minior increase in power, but maintain the over all balance, which avoids powercreap.

i do not like the idea of making the die a different color... that seems out of place. i would like it to remain the color for the catagory it fits, but just have adjusted ratios and have some kind of double evade, double hit.

It has to be a different color, otherwise it will be too difficult to differentiate between the regular and the modified.

Edit: I got the quote just right, then hit submit. No comments. No ideas.

You mean like adding dice that can get multiple hits per die as the OP suggests? You could end up with a ship that only rolls three dice but gets 6 hits. Sounds like power creep to me.