My copy of Dunwich Horror has finally arrived. It took a bit longer than expected. For a while I feared it was LiTaS.

Ok, before I play my first game I thought I would ask a couple of general questions. I'm just asking for opinions here.

What would be a good way to tackle Dunwich for the first time(s)? Do you jump straight in with the new Investigators and AO's? Or would it be better to use the old familiar guys from the core set while the new rules are being assimilated?

How do the new AO's compare? Who' toughest? Who's the easiest?

How do the new investigators stack up? Superficially they all look quite interesting. And I can't see any of them vying for the much coveted "Vincent Lee Award for Uselessness". Although Mark Harrigan and Jacqueline Fine look a bit frail.

Hi Lee!

First of all, congrats for the arrival of Dunwich! You have totally mastered the core game, so it's time to move on and have a greater challenge! So, for your questions:

- the new AOs are definitely harded than those in the core set. Shudde introduces a new, terrifying way to lose the game, Glaaki is one of the greatest nemesis that ever came to Arkham, not only because he's deadly in final combat, but also (and especially) because of his Servants. Man are they brutal! They force you to reconsider often the tactics, and you must be good at controlling the Terror track. So: there's a lot more strategy involved (at the moment, I don't think any of the AO ever conceived but those presented at Arkham Nights has the magnificent design Dunwich AOs had). Tsath doesn't make the game too difficult (so it could be a nice start), but trust me, you don't want to go with him to Final Battle. And finally Abhoth is a quick one, and you have more surface to cover!

- new investigators: some are great, some are not so great, but overall they are pretty well balanced

- how to tackle the expansion: I'd say, first of all go with an Azathoth game, with a random draw of investigators (maybe if the first 3 are from the core set, keep on drawing until you have at least one new). In this way you could study the board and discover where to go and where not. Then... do what you did before: random investigators, random AOs, and do a complete rotation of all the AO (which means 12 games). Then, try to beat the 4 AOs from Arkham Nights. Then repeat the complete sequence with the Dunwich Horror Herald (don't remember if you have MH, but you can download a slightly different version of the Herald from this very site).

- then, if you survive all of this, play a Yog game with this custom Herald born from the wicked minds of Avi and Julia (pray before trying):

I'd say, first of all go with an Azathoth game, with a random draw of investigators (maybe if the first 3 are from the core set, keep on drawing until you have at least one new). In this way you could study the board and discover where to go and where not. Then... do what you did before: random investigators, random AOs, and do a complete rotation of all the AO (which means 12 games).

Thanks for the advice Julia. An Azathoth game sounds like the way to go. I'm still gearing up for the first Dunwich game. The decks have been shuffled together and I'm reading the new rules again and again. It all seems pretty easy to grasp. But I'm a little unsure on one point. How is the Monster Surge rule effected when an expansion board is in play? I think the source of my confusion is the fact that monsters on expansion boards don't count towards the monster limit.

Hypothetical scenaio 1) Core board + DH in play. The monster limit has already been reached in Arkham and a monster surge occurs at an Arkham location. Also there are gates open in Dunwich. Where are the surge monsters meant to be placed? In the Outskirts? Or on the Dunwich gates? (Or both?)

Hypothetical scenario 2) Core board + DH in play. The monster limit has already been reached in Arkham and a monster surge occurs at a Dunwich location. Same question: Where are the surge monsters meant to be placed? In the Outskirts? Or on the Dunwich gates? (Or both?)

Lol!

I just read through The Shapeless Mouths with rock metal in my headphones (which I think fits perfectly the mood of this Herald )...each special rule is worst than the one before The last one should simply read "If Yog-Sothoth awakens, you lose the game". No way in hell investigators are going to be able to have more than 1 gate trophy with Dunwich constantly surging and Dunwich Horrors parading around...

Now I feel like giving it a try Julia, how do you report games with custom Heralds/AOs on Tibs' statistics spreadsheet?

Lee, I would randomize the draw for investigators but I'd actually choose one of the new AOs for the first 2 games (the ones you find most interesting), then randomize those too. Then I would add the Dunwich Horror herald to get that monster actually awakening

The way I actually did it, since I found the data on the aforementioned Tibs' spreadsheet: Glaaki with Black Goat herald (I bought DH and BGotW together), Shudde M'ell on his own, Abhoth, Tsathoggua. The record? Loss, loss, loss, loss

But, I only used 2 investigators in the Glaaki, Shudde and Abhoth games (madness!) and 3 for Tsathoggua. I would wise-up later but this did give me my taste for actually losing Arkham by fighting against hopeless odds...

p.s. Items, Spells, Skills, Injuries, encounter cards, should of course go all-in ASAP.

Hypothetical scenaio 1) Core board + DH in play. The monster limit has already been reached in Arkham and a monster surge occurs at an Arkham location. Also there are gates open in Dunwich. Where are the surge monsters meant to be placed? In the Outskirts? Or on the Dunwich gates? (Or both?)

A unique chance to beat Julia to an answer

The correct answer in both scenarios is you place monsters on ALL gates (you still follow the rule that no other gate can get more monsters than the surging one). BUT, if the monster limit is reached, the monsters appearing through gates in Arkham go to the Outskirts; monsters appearing through gates in Dunwich are not counted against the monster limit, so they appear normally.

Edit: example for a 4-investigator game, 3 gates open in Arkham and 1 in Dunwich. Surge in Arkham, you place 1 monster on the surging gate, reach the monster limit, place 2 monsters in the Outskirts, then finish by placing 1 monster in Dunwich.

Same example, surge on the Dunwich gate, you place 1 monster in Dunwich, choose one gate on which to place a monster in Arkham, hit the limit, place 2 monsters in the Outskirts.

Before you ask the next logical question, if some monster has to move from Dunwich to Arkham (flyers, Hounds, Milk of Shub Niggurath) but the monster limit is reached, all monsters exceeding the limit go to the Outskirts.

The correct answer in both scenarios is you place monsters on ALL gates (you still follow the rule that no other gate can get more monsters than the surging one). BUT, if the monster limit is reached, the monsters appearing through gates in Arkham go to the Outskirts; monsters appearing through gates in Dunwich are not counted against the monster limit, so they appear normally.

Before you ask the next logical question, if some monster has to move from Dunwich to Arkham (flyers, Hounds, Milk of Shub Niggurath) but the monster limit is reached, all monsters exceeding the limit go to the Outskirts.

Thanks Tox!

So if a surge occurs in Arkham the monsters are distributed among Arkaham gates, or they go to the Outskirts if the limit is reached. If a surge occurs in Dunwich the monsters are only distributed among the Dunwich gates. Got it.

EDIT: Just read your edit and realised that I still don't get it. But I think I do now.

Tox, thanks for the brilliant comments I'm still laughing for a couple of your remarks.

First of all, the very important question: what rock metal? (Aye, tons of metal in listened to in my life)

Yes, if Yog wakes up, it's basically game over. But it's intentional: I want people to confront the Herald, not start thinking "hey, the dude it's too tough, let's gear up for Final Battle". Final Battle is not an option. You must win by seals / close gates (call it "Old School Arkham, Avi style". We designed together the Herald, and he gave the suggestions for two things: FB, and Dunwich Horror like cultists)

If you give this a try, please report! It could be your most spectacular victory, or a so catastrophic failure the story will be told for eons (strange or not)

Beating Glaaki with 2p and Dunwich in play... it's a tough one, Tox. Don't worry you lost that one!

And agreed, mix in small cards as soon as possible

The correct answer in both scenarios is you place monsters on ALL gates (you still follow the rule that no other gate can get more monsters than the surging one). BUT, if the monster limit is reached, the monsters appearing through gates in Arkham go to the Outskirts; monsters appearing through gates in Dunwich are not counted against the monster limit, so they appear normally.

Before you ask the next logical question, if some monster has to move from Dunwich to Arkham (flyers, Hounds, Milk of Shub Niggurath) but the monster limit is reached, all monsters exceeding the limit go to the Outskirts.

Thanks Tox!

So if a surge occurs in Arkham the monsters are distributed among Arkaham gates, or they go to the Outskirts if the limit is reached. If a surge occurs in Dunwich the monsters are only distributed among the Dunwich gates. Got it.

EDIT: Just read your edit and realised that I still don't get it. But I think I do now.

Lee, Tox didn't say that. He said a very different (and very important) thing. When you have to resolve a monster surge, you follow this order of actions:

a) determination of the number of monsters. As usual, you count the number of investigators playing and the number of gates in Arkham, which means here "Arkham + Dunwich" (remember "In Arkham = on the main board & all the expansion boards in play), see whichever is the greater: this is the number of monsters to be spawn. So, 4 investigators, 5 gates = 5 monsters (regardless of where the gates are, we could have 5 gates in Dunwich, 5 on the core board, or 2 here and 3 there)

b) you start resolving the surge as normal, hence by placing the first monster on the surging gate and then spawning monsters according to the order you decided before drawing them from the cup

c) a monster to be placed on a Dunwich gate is *always* placed there: there is no monster limit for expansion boards

d) a monster to be placed on the core Arkham board is subject to the monster limit rules: before spawning the monster on the gate, you count the monsters in play (only on the core board and in the Sky): if you haven't reached the monster limit yet, you spawn the monster on the gate, otherwise you put it in the Outskirts (rules for Outskirts limit still apply, clearly)

e) you keep on repeating until you've placed all monsters from the surge on their respective gates (or in the Outskirts if you have to place some on the main board but you have reached the Monster Limit)

Remember

that Flyers may move from Dunwich to the Sky: in this case, you check again the monster limit: if you've already reached it, the Flyers move from Dunwich to the Outskirts

Hope this clarifies any remaining doubts you may have. Otherwise, ask

:laughter:

A unique chance to beat Julia to an answer

Lee, Tox didn't say that. He said a very different (and very important) thing.

Thanks for the further clarificatuion Julia. Although I feel I should point out that my initial confused response to Tox was based on his post prior to the subsequent edit and the addition of explanatory examples. I'm ok with the surge rule now.

And seeing how you both mentioned it I will say that I was already happy with the flying monster rules when they move from an expansion board to the sky. Thanks for bringing it up anyway though.

On a different note, I see that both Tox and yourself advocate mixing small cards. Does that mean that even if you aren't using a particular expansion board you still use the item and spell cards? So far I've been removing the small cards.

A bit of news.... Miskatonic Horror is on the way. Now all I need is CotDP and the collection is complete. Is there any word on the grapevine as to when it will be available?

Lee, when you get Miskatonic you will have what I have I'm only missing CotDP because the revised edition will never be published in my country. And, because I'm kind of a freak, I don't want to mix an English-version CotDP to the rest of my game, which is in Italian.... First and last time I buy a translated version of a game...

Anyway, the revised CotDP should already be available in English, I've seen it on lots of sites.

Glad the example helped, after proof-reading the original post I decided it definitely needed one.

Small cards have no reason not to be mixed in, IMHO. The more thematic ones (actually, only ones with a theme) are those from KiY and you may not like to have the KiY theme in the decks if you're not playing with that herald, but I don't mind. As soon as I acquired an expansion I mixed its small cards in their decks and I've never separated them again.

Tox, thanks for the brilliant comments I'm still laughing for a couple of your remarks.

First of all, the very important question: what rock metal? (Aye, tons of metal in listened to in my life)

Yes, if Yog wakes up, it's basically game over. But it's intentional: I want people to confront the Herald, not start thinking "hey, the dude it's too tough, let's gear up for Final Battle". Final Battle is not an option. You must win by seals / close gates (call it "Old School Arkham, Avi style". We designed together the Herald, and he gave the suggestions for two things: FB, and Dunwich Horror like cultists)

If you give this a try, please report! It could be your most spectacular victory, or a so catastrophic failure the story will be told for eons (strange or not)

Beating Glaaki with 2p and Dunwich in play... it's a tough one, Tox. Don't worry you lost that one!

I had Spotify running and it had chosen to play something by Iron Maiden...I don't remember which particular song, but it perfectly fit the mood, plus the picture of the herald looks like a metal album cover

I used to be a big Rammstein fan, years ago, still listen to them from time to time. Now it's mostly just old plain rock I listen to

I doubt it could be a victory, but I will set it up and play it tomorrow or on Saturday. I'm curious as to what can possibly go as planned.

The Glaaki game was my 7th game ever...as I said, I've wised-up since Still, my win/loss record hasn't improved THAT much

Sorry if the surge question was already clear, Lee! I didn't want to be too pedantic :blush:

As for the small cards... yes, everything always mixed in. They add so much to the game: flavour, complexity, different interactions, and so on. And actually playing with them all, lower the odds of drawing Elder Signs, which is good, because makes the game more interesting and challenging.

And congrats for Miskatonic arriving!!!

Tox,

I didn't know they weren't intentioned in translating CoDP in Italian. Sounds so silly! Still, that's one of the reasons I get games in English: it could happen something is not translated. Or something that was translated is not reprinted anymore. If you go with the original, you don't suffer from any of these issues.

Anyhoo... Big Irons fan here (up to 7th Son); once I was a big fan of Rammstein either, then I met my husband and he technically proved they are just smart people who mixed the sounds of Ministry and Laibach, so... uhm... not so big fan thereafter :laughter: still, they are not Tiziano Ferro at least :devil:

So, ok, good luck with that. Suggestions: preselect characters. Akachi, Hank, Patrice, Roland, Wendy and Norman. This party should win, 80% of the times (or, at least, they should give you a chance )

As for the small cards... yes, everything always mixed in. They add so much to the game: flavour, complexity, different interactions, and so on. And actually playing with them all, lower the odds of drawing Elder Signs, which is good, because makes the game more interesting and challenging.

I think I will start mixing then.

I was looking through some of the small cards last night and the Time Bomb from the KiY caught my eye. Would it be possible to successfully use that against the Dunwich Horror?

That's an interesting question. Reading literally the card, there is a contraddiction:

a) the Dunwich Horror is a monster, so it should be affected by the card

b) the card instructs the removed monsters to be returned to the cup, but Spawn monsters are never returned to the cup

(as per FAQ, pag 26: Q: Do “return monsters to the cup” effects work on Spawn monsters? Can the Feds Raiding Arkham! (Mythos Card) [AH] actually get rid of Spawn monsters?
A: No. Spawn monsters should never be returned to the cup by card effects like Feds Raid Arkham!)

Of the two things, I'd rule Time Bomb is effective, but I'd love to hear Tibs on this one.

Of the two things, I'd rule Time Bomb is effective, but I'd love to hear Tibs on this one.

I feel somewhat conflicted on this one. My head says that Time Bomb should work based on the fact that the Dunwich Horror is a monster. But as you point out it does not return to the cup like ordinary monsters. Also it seems like a 'too convenient' way to circumvent the special rules surrounding the Dunwich Horror. Under normal circumstances you would have to draw a Dunwich Horror card which could indicate 'Physical Immunity'. I assume, even though it doesn't say so, the Time Bomb is a physical weapon.

But the card itself doesn't seem to make a distinction on that point. It simply says 'return all monsters to the cup'.

Hmmmm..... quite a conundrum. I will await the expert ruling.

While we are on the subject of card mixing I want to ask for opinions on the 'spare cards' that come with the Dunwich expansion. My copy of Arkham is the 2006 revised edition, and so the seven 'replacement cards' that come with Dunwich are actually duplicates of cards I already have. What do other people do in this situation? Mix them in or leave them out.

Would four more copies of Flesh Ward unbalance the Spell deck?

I have the revised AH core game too, and I left them out. You never know, you may lose or damage one of them, better have spares and leave the balance as is. I doubt you want any more Flesh Wards and Lanterns in your decks, anyway

I have the revised AH core game too, and I left them out. You never know, you may lose or damage one of them, better have spares and leave the balance as is. I doubt you want any more Flesh Wards and Lanterns in your decks, anyway

A second Healing Stone would be nice though.

But I take your point about deck balance. I think I will leave them out.

I have everything mixed in. Lanterns are always welcome, and Flesh Ward... sometimes is good, some other (most) not, but still, I never go for a spell-heavy tactics unless I'm totally desperate. The double Healing Stone clearly is an important advantage, but still, the UI deck is so thick with everything in, I don't feel this as a real issue. I know Dam played the same; don't know for the others.

So, beware you could have Leo Anderson's ability misprinted (it's once per turn, not once per game) and congrats if you have the Py-chic Jacq!

I believe that I've read Session Reports from Avi or other notable players who highlighted the use of Time Bomb to destroy the Dunwich Horror . Again, as I work with attorneys, I would not have a particular interpretation hinge on the wording of cards we all know have innumerable flaws. "Return monsters to the cup" much like "Return to Arkham" is short-hand to trigger many other rules or conditions in the game.

Bottom Line : The Dunwich Monster is a Monster ... Time Bomb defeats monsters...on my table, it works.

Cheers,

Joe

So, beware you could have Leo Anderson's ability misprinted (it's once per turn, not once per game) and congrats if you have the Py-chic Jacq!

My copy of Leo Anderson says "once per turn." My Dunwich is one of the latest batch of reprints, so I would expect it come with corrected cards and sheets anyway.

Ok, google helped. Both ColtsFan and Dam agree you cannot time bomb the Horror

And I'm really really happy with this one :devil:

Point is that the wording on the card is ambiguous, but by looking at the nature of Spawn monsters, it's a good thing you cannot clear them away in this way. They have too a huge impact on the game (triggering new defeat conditions, and so on) to allow beating them in this way.

I had strongly mixed feelings about this one, but I'm happy with the general answer given by Brian and Rauli

Point is that the wording on the card is ambiguous, but by looking at the nature of Spawn monsters, it's a good thing you cannot clear them away in this way. They have too a huge impact on the game (triggering new defeat conditions, and so on) to allow beating them in this way.

I had strongly mixed feelings about this one, but I'm happy with the general answer given by Brian and Rauli

That's that sorted then. ****! I thought I had discovered a devious loop hole in the rules. But actually I am glad you can't get rid of the Horror so easily.

Oh and I spoke too soon about Jacqueline. She's not a Psychic or even a Pychic. She's a P h ychic!

If anyone asks I'm going to bluff it and say she's a cross between a Physicist an a Psychic.