Ahoy peeps

Just saw a video today where the OP´s group experiment with a Semi-permanent death house rule to balance the game....

Basically, the heroes all have 5 poker chips at the beginning of the encounter.... Everytime they get knocked out, the OL takes one of the chips away.... When the fifth chip is gone the hero is out of the encounter.....

Just wondering if you guys use similar houserules and what they are....

Is the example given at the top of this post realistic in use balancewise?

Torben, Denmark

I don't think I've ever seen a single hero die 5 times in a single encounter. Seems like extra work for not a lot of change to basic gameplay. IMO, any change you make should be meaningful, and since the heroes just come back at the end of the encounter anyway, it doesn't feel that way to me.

Introducing a houserule with semi-death for the heroes could be interesting, but not because of "(un)balance" issues.

It rather would meet the need of some players to make the game nearer to their idea of "realism".

Now, if one hero was eliminated from an encounter, one should think of the monster group limits.

If the overlord is murdering a single hero five times in an encounter I'm not sure he or she needs any balancing help in his or her favor.

I think the OT means the heroes as a group get 5 tokens, similar to the Castle Ravenloft/D&D board games and the healing surges. So, if one character happens to die twice and another dies once, there are 2 tokens left for the heroes to use.

I think it's a pretty good rule, to be honest. I don't know if my group would use it (at least not for a long, long time), but it's something to think about!

My gaming group has been using a similar rule for a while now.

Whenever the Overlord knocks out a character the token is used to replace the character mini on the board as usual. But when the character is revived, the token does not go back to the player, but it goes to the Overlord. Whenever a player has no more tokens to replace his character with after being knocked out, that player stays knocked out for the remainder of the quest. After the quest players take the knocked out character back to Arhynn, where he is revived again. The character does not lose any items and does gain xp as if the character finished the quest regularly.

Because of this mechanic our playing sessions have become a lot more tense in a very positive way. Players tend to start of a lot less restrained, rushing forward and attacking critters left and right. But when a character loses two of his tokens, the playing tempo becomes more tentative. Other players try to convince the 'wounded' player to stay behind a bit more, protect and heal the character faster and overall tactics are definitely adjusted.

It almost never happens that a player is permanently knocked out, because players change their playing style and become more cautious. But last session it did happen for the first time, that I as the Overlord was able to kill the healer 5 times, causing a permanent knock out.

I normally wouldn't put all my energy in stopping just one character, but it was the only way for me to win second encounter of The Frozen Spire. I already killed him a couple of times by swallowing him with Ice Wyrms (so much fun!) during the first encounter, so I only needed to knock him out 2 or 3 times before he was permanently out of the game.

This became necessary because I just couldn't get past him and Grisban to open the doors and escape. To escape you need both tiles next to the doors covered, before they can be opened. Since I had 1-tile figures I needed at least one of them to go away for good, so I could put two figures there at the same time and have an action left to open the door before being killed. And who better to get out of the way than the healer.

I also had good luck because their scout had been knocked out by zombie Frederik and was way out of the reach for any his fellow adventurers to revive him.

So, to awnser the questions of balance and fun, it definitely delivers on both fronts. Balance wise, it asks the players to adept a bit more and gives their actions more weight. Sessions can take a bit longer, because decisions become harder and teamwork becomes even more important. But that's a good thing in my opinion. Also the Overlord has a bit more options when figuring out his tactics, but not so much more that it tips the balance. In my expercience cautious characters are usually harder to play against than when they are running around thinking they're invincible.

And maybe most important it adds another layer of 'realism' and excitement to an already very intense game. Also, as an Overlord, to be able to collect player tokens as trophy's and displaying them for all to see, instills fear in players and causes maniacal laughs from Overlords, which is always a good thing.

Never had one hero die 5 times in an adventure... because at that point, the adventure would be over.

Then, go back play the first edition, with the horrible conquest point system

(so much nightmares)

Never had one hero die 5 times in an adventure... because at that point, the adventure would be over.

5 times?? lol i have kill lot of heroes in one quest. its possible.

5 times?? lol i have kill lot of heroes in one quest. its possible.

The most a hero has ever been KO'd in an encounter I've played in is 3 times. Reasoning being that if the heroes are getting KO'd so much, the Overlord is going to win the encounter shortly.

The only reason why heroes would be getting KO'd more than that, IMO, is if the Overlord is a sadist and just wants to keep punishing the heroes rather than finish the objective. I don't know many players that would want to be in a game with that person as the Overlord.

It all depends... sometimes you don't kill the heroes at all, sometimes you kill them a bunch. It's a good way to get more cards into your hands as well. And it doesn't automatically mean the heroes are doing a bad job getting to the objective. The scenario I was talking about before was almost won by the heroes. They killed all my monsters, which only left me with the weaker faster ones that I could reinforce on the other side of the map. They left me no choice .

With a disciple in play, being knocked out means very little. If they play it well, they do not even lose any actions, since prayer of healing does not cost an action.

The players seem to handle it just fine and all our games (except for the masquerade ball) have been very close ones, with them winning as much as I did, including the interlude (a very sad moment indeed).

Against this system the best possible combination is Frenzied + Blood Rage'd Master shadow dragon.

Usually in these quests I manage to kill 3 heroes with this combo. Afterwards they are on low health and it's easy to pick 1-2 heroes each round.

Will this also prevent the heros and overlord from dragging out the games?

If you mean by dragging out the game, so the heroes can grab some extra treasure... no this rule doesn't really prevent that. But the heroes in my experience do tend to leave treasure alone if they've lost a couple of lives. It's just not worth the risk at that moment I guess. As an overlord I often think that is a bad decision on their part, because a health or fatigue potion can be just that difference between life or death.

If you mean by dragging out the game, so the heroes can grab some extra treasure... no this rule doesn't really prevent that. But the heroes in my experience do tend to leave treasure alone if they've lost a couple of lives. It's just not worth the risk at that moment I guess. As an overlord I often think that is a bad decision on their part, because a health or fatigue potion can be just that difference between life or death.

If the Overlord can respawn a monster each turn and the heros just get knocked out all the time the game will never end. As far as I have it you may not concede an encounter. They should have made special rules for conceding an encounter. We played the king of all goblins download quest and after the hero's got two objective tokens the overlord was respwaning and two heros were already knoked out (4 heros). We knew (us the heros) that it was impossible to get the last objective. And the overlord figured that it was better for him to knock out all the heros then leave the map with the last objective because health and fatigue carries over into encounter 2. We decided to begin knocked out in encounter 2 which means basically we are going to lose a turn in encounter 2. Back on topic- I stil think this will restrict players that abuse the games logistics. Our Overlord has no mercy. He will give you hope just to break it down again.

Dirk Swanepoel, on 11 Nov 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

As far as I have it you may not concede an encounter. They should have made special rules for conceding an encounter.

I know "common sense" is something of a naughty word around here sometimes, but seriously, you're playing the game to have fun. If no one is having fun, stop playing.

There may not be any actual rules about conceding an encounter, but if everyone at the table agrees that the conclusion of an encounter/quest is foregone, I don't see why you should feel like you HAVE to play it out.

I know "common sense" is something of a naughty word around here sometimes, but seriously, you're playing the game to have fun. If no one is having fun, stop playing.

The problem with this is that there's so many factors that enter play in the transition from Encounter I to Encounter II (and even between quests). If the heroes have the option to concede, they may strategically choose to take it to prevent the Overlord from drawing up more cards. To prevent the heroes from conceding in some fashion that would provide them a benefit they might otherwise not get, conceding an encounter would have to end as all heroes being knocked out and the overlord starting Encounter II with all 15 cards. (This doesn't even include Threat Token gain from Lieutenant Packs.)

On the Overlord Side, the parallel would include gaining zero more cards (he can always choose to not spend any more), the heroes gaining every search token (and being able to use all applicable abilities, like looking at the top two, etc.) and if there's any healing in the group, going into Encounter II with full health.

Even though sometimes it does seem like playing things out is a forgone conclusion, there's just too many factors to really put in any good conceding rules without them being yet another strategic point that would possibly create a scenario where the heroes or overlord may just concede right away, which is the antithesis of actually playing the game. Rules for conceding are much better suited for games which don't have repercussions that transition over from one game to the next.

Never had one hero die 5 times in an adventure... because at that point, the adventure would be over.

There was a quest just last week, I think, I did drop my heroes Allot. In mid act I: the warrior four times, healer three, scout 3 and mage two. I dropped the warrior, healer and mage all at once to force them to decide if they wanted to have treasure or if they wanted to win. They went with the win and I felt like I won as well.

After that I really feel like dropping a hero five times isn't that hard. Particularly if you focus on a hero to harass. I think the rule might be fun, but I don't really like it. It would encourage me to be even more abusive even when I don't need to.

If you mean by dragging out the game, so the heroes can grab some extra treasure... no this rule doesn't really prevent that. But the heroes in my experience do tend to leave treasure alone if they've lost a couple of lives. It's just not worth the risk at that moment I guess. As an overlord I often think that is a bad decision on their part, because a health or fatigue potion can be just that difference between life or death.

If the Overlord can respawn a monster each turn and the heros just get knocked out all the time the game will never end. As far as I have it you may not concede an encounter. They should have made special rules for conceding an encounter. We played the king of all goblins download quest and after the hero's got two objective tokens the overlord was respwaning and two heros were already knoked out (4 heros). We knew (us the heros) that it was impossible to get the last objective. And the overlord figured that it was better for him to knock out all the heros then leave the map with the last objective because health and fatigue carries over into encounter 2. We decided to begin knocked out in encounter 2 which means basically we are going to lose a turn in encounter 2. Back on topic- I stil think this will restrict players that abuse the games logistics. Our Overlord has no mercy. He will give you hope just to break it down again.

Two rules corrections here that may affect your enjoyment of the game:

1) Fatigue does not carry over into encounter 2.

2) Heroes never begin an encounter knocked out. If they are knocked out at the end of the first encounter, they start encounter 2 with damage regained equal to the hearts rolled on two red dice and zero fatigue.

But then the heros technically loose a turn because the "stand up" action will prohibit you from doing any other action? In some encounters loosing one turn means you loose the encounter.

It's not a stand up action. The heroes regain the health during setup of the encounter.

It's not a stand up action. The heroes regain the health during setup of the encounter.

Will check this, as far as I know only fatigue. It will be great because then we still stand a chance.

2) Heroes never begin an encounter knocked out. If they are knocked out at the end of the first encounter, they start encounter 2 with damage regained equal to the hearts rolled on two red dice and zero fatigue.

It's not a stand up action. The heroes regain the health during setup of the encounter.

I'm not sure if you're using an edition based in a different language or not, but that's not what the rulebook says (emphasis mine):

When players transition from one encounter of a quest to another, they perform the following steps:

...

Any knocked out heroes MAY perform a stand up action for free.

...

Players disassemble the map for Encounter 1 and refer to the Quest Guide in order to set up the map for Encounter 2.

1. It doesn't happen during Encounter setup, it's after Encounter 1 ends and before the setup of Encounter 2.

2. Heroes are not required to perform a stand up action. If they feel that the specific quest rules mean that starting out with a weak hero will be detrimental, (such as if the Overlord gets to go first), they can opt to keep that hero knocked out until the other heroes can clear the room, they may opt to do so.

The relevant passage is the bulleted text on page 18 of the rulebook. As griton correctly points out, before the setup of the second encounter, any knocked out heroes may perform a stand up action for free. Therefore, the players who engage in such an action do not lose their first turn. Additionally, all players recover all fatigue before setup of the second encounter.

The relevant passage is the bulleted text on page 18 of the rulebook. As griton correctly points out, before the setup of the second encounter, any knocked out heroes may perform a stand up action for free. Therefore, the players who engage in such an action do not lose their first turn. Additionally, all players recover all fatigue before setup of the second encounter.

Thanks, it's clear now. In this game the smallest thing can be fatal to either side.