Just curious as to the numbers. I mean, they took on the first completed Death Star with 30 ships, and no Caps. But Ive seen listing of upwards of 1500 fighters being fielded by the Rebellion. Is this at all a feasible number? Sounds a bit outrageous to me.

Well, yeah, it's a pangalactic fleet looking for one final crippling battle. The Empire ran about a dozen Star Destroyers, and you remember the scaling of those things?

Oh I know. But The Rebellion didnt think the Empire had any fleet there. So I am assuming they were planning a second guerilla type strike, as they were tricked into believing by the Empire. Hence "Its a Trap!"

The large force the Alliance fielded wasn't strictly to destroy the Death Star itself (that could be accomplished by a handful of fighters as long as the superstructure was incomplete) but to defeat other defense forces and protect the strike craft, as well as prevent the Emperor from escaping. Plus, there was no guarantee that fighters could still reach the reactor core, in which case the fleet's guns could be used to cripple the Death Star before retreating, which would at least delay its completion.

As far as numbers go, most Alliance starfighters were hyperdrive capable, but the fleet was hiding in deep space, away from star systems and established bases. Although they are shown jumping in under their own power in the movie (so they wouldn't have to risk a combat launch if they were ambushed) the starfighter complement was limited by the hangar space available to the fleet.

The following ships are known to have participated in the Battle of Endor, along with their maximum starfighter complement (in squadrons):

4+ Home One -type MC80 Star Cruisers ( Home One, Independence, Defiance, 1+ Unidentified)

- Complement varies, average 6 squadrons. Total 288+ starfighters.

3+ Liberty -type MC80 Star Cruisers ( Liberty, Maria, Reef Home )

- Complement 3 squadrons. Total 108+ starfighters.

1+ Wingless Liberty -type MC80 Star Cruisers (1+ Unidentified)

- Complement 6 squadrons. Total 72+ starfighters.

1+ MC80A Star Cruisers (1+ Unidentified)

- Complement 6 squadrons. Total 72+ starfighters.

1+ Nebulon-B Medical Frigates ( Redemption )

- Complement 3 fighters. Total 3+ starfighters.

9+ Nebulon-B Escort Frigates ( Antares Six, Valiance, Yavaris , 6+ Unidentified)

- Complement 2 squadrons. Total 216+ starfighters.

1+ Quasar Fire -class Bulk Cruiser ( Flurry )

- Complement 4 squadrons. Total 48+ starfighters.

Therefore, the starfighter capacity of the Alliance Fleet using the most conservative estimates is 809 starfighters (67 squadrons, plus 3 individual fighters from the Redemption ). 1,500 fighters is certainly reasonable.

Obviously, it is possible that ships did not field their full complements, but the aftermath describes the hangar capacity of some vessels (including the Independence ) being stretched to the limit to recover the squadrons of other vessels destroyed in the fighting. This likely means that the fleet's starfighter complements were close to maximum strength.

First of all, mad props to JokerTwo for providing that breakdown. Somebody's got a little 3P0 in him...

I'd add that I thought the Imps had more than a dozen ISDs. Nevermind the presence of SSD Executor and it's massive compliment, the background shots during the battle often show what appears to be far more than a dozen ISDs forming a ring around the fleet. Maybe it was 12 official ships but the rest were "hiding behind Endor"?

Going on the Movie there seemed to be a couple of dozen tops.

And we never saw the Bwings doing anything. meh.

Back in the day, I remember pausing RotJ to try and count the number of ships on display so I could build the battle using Star Warriors. It was a lot, but nowhere near 800. I think a lot of these big numbers are "logical" retcons based on the relative size of the capital ships and the fighters they carried, but there was never any onscreen indication that the battle was anything like that in size.

I'd rather assume that each Star Destroyer held the 30-odd TIE fighters they seemed to spit out, and the balance of space was taken up with Olympic-size swimming pools and vast board-gaming auditoria :-)

I believe the Death Squadron at Endor was noted to be the largest fleet of warships ever assembled in the Star Wars universe. According to Wookieepedia, at the time it comprised of;

1x Executor-class Star Dreadnought

2x Battlecruisers of unknown provenance

3x Tector-class Star Destroyers

33x Imperial-class Star Destroyers

Using the information we know, the 'Executor' had a complement of 144 TIE-series starfighters, which could be a mix of TIE Fighters, Interceptors etc. Each Imperial-class Star Destroyer has 72 TIE-series craft. The Tector-classes don't have their own fighters and we cannot speculate about what the Battlecruisers had. This would equate to around 2520 TIE craft.

Going off the 1,500 number, it's about one and a half TIEs per Rebel ship, but the conservative estimate puts it a bit over 3 TIEs per ship.

hmm...that seems to be any normal fight between imps to rebs (3:1) ratio. Movie always gave me the impression that there were SO Many more TIEs than rebel fighters. Though the information out there probably has some sort of basis, I'm gonna keep my movie perspective that it may have been 10:1 or higher giving great weight to the Imperial trap (fighter-wise).

Don't forget TIEs based on the Death Star.

Don't forget TIEs based on the Death Star.

Awww...good point!

I believe the Death Squadron at Endor was noted to be the largest fleet of warships ever assembled in the Star Wars universe. According to Wookieepedia, at the time it comprised of;

1x Executor-class Star Dreadnought

2x Battlecruisers of unknown provenance

3x Tector-class Star Destroyers

33x Imperial-class Star Destroyers

Using the information we know, the 'Executor' had a complement of 144 TIE-series starfighters, which could be a mix of TIE Fighters, Interceptors etc. Each Imperial-class Star Destroyer has 72 TIE-series craft. The Tector-classes don't have their own fighters and we cannot speculate about what the Battlecruisers had. This would equate to around 2520 TIE craft.

Going off the 1,500 number, it's about one and a half TIEs per Rebel ship, but the conservative estimate puts it a bit over 3 TIEs per ship.

Aww, Dreis beat me to getting around to the Imperials. Yeah, 33 Imperials , 21 of which are explicitly named in one source or another. Plus the Executor and some odds and ends. You left out a Victory -class or two, as well as at least a half dozen Interdictor- class Cruisers that trapped the Rebel fleet, but that's only another 192 fighters, most of which would have been held back to protect the Interdictors themselves.

Awww...good point!

Don't forget TIEs based on the Death Star.

Another 7,200 at intended complement. That's right, almost three times as many as the combined fleet. It was uncompleted, so it's unknown if this many were actually present, but with the Emperor it's highly likely. This puts the full Imperial starfighter force at approximately 10,000.

The Imperial numbers are pretty much canon. The Rebel numbers I gave are a canon minimum . Based on how many of the Imperials ships are specifically named (2/3rds), I'd guess that the actual size of the Rebel fleet is about 50% larger than the minimum.

Depending on the numbers, then, the Imperials had approximately an 8-to-1 numerical superiority in starfighters (Rebel fleet 50% above minimum is about 1,200 against 10,000). The Rebels may actually have fielded more starships, but the Imperials had about 3 Imperial -class for every Alliance MC80.

The battle went the way it did for a lot of reasons, but most of them are tied to the arrogance of Palpatine. Underestimating cute Ewoks feral and possibly cannibalistic native tribes. Overestimating Darth Vader's loyalty. Gloating with his superlaser rather than committing the fleet en masse. Using the Force to influence his commanders while simultaneously overseeing a duel.

The trap wasn't the presence of an Imperial Fleet. The trap was that the Death Star's primary weapon was operational, could target warships instead of just planets, and that the Imperials were prepared for the mission to disable the shields. I'm fairly certain the Alliance was well aware of the massive fleet that was there. They just had intended for it to be defending a station that wasn't prepared to do so itself. Instead the fleet's job was to trap the Alliance Fleet so the station could obliterate it.

The trap wasn't the presence of an Imperial Fleet. The trap was that the Death Star's primary weapon was operational, could target warships instead of just planets, and that the Imperials were prepared for the mission to disable the shields. I'm fairly certain the Alliance was well aware of the massive fleet that was there. They just had intended for it to be defending a station that wasn't prepared to do so itself. Instead the fleet's job was to trap the Alliance Fleet so the station could obliterate it.

"With the Imperial fleet spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effort to engage us, [the Death Star] is relatively unprotected." - Mon Mothma

(The Rebels expect the Imperial fleet to be scattered, not concentrated.)

"What of the reports of the Rebel fleet massing near Sullust?" - Darth Vader

"They are of no concern..." - Emperor Palpatine

(Palpatine has seen through the ruse, and has massed the fleet.)

"Incoming ships in sector 47!" - Home One Bridge Officer

"It's a trap!" - Admiral Ackbar

(The arrival of the fleet disorients the Rebels.)

The Rebels obviously expected heavy resistance, since they deployed literally every vessel they could get their hands on (medical ships, transports, and fleet carriers accompany the starfighters and warships). They just planned on overwhelming a picket force, not slugging it out with a battlefleet.

Granted, the capabilities of the Death Star are a lethal surprise, but without the fleet's presence (particularly its Interdictors , to prevent the Rebels from jumping to hyperspace) its effect is limited.

I have the Lego ISD and SSD an according to the little stat cards you get the SSD had 144 Tie's and 200 additional support craft (if we are couting gun boats or the like and shuttles). The ISD has 72 Tie fighters.

33 (counted from the movie) Star Destroyers = 2,376 Tie fighters from ISD

1 Super Star Destroyer = 144 Tie Fighters from ISD

Going by the movies then there were 2,520 Tie Fighters launched by the Imperial Blockade not including those that came from the death star which ,by movie standpoint, there were none. This seems wierd to me but then again an SSD is way bigger than an ISD by at least a factor of 15 but only carries twice as many fighters? So thats the movie imperial count

The Rebellion is harder becasue you never see their entire fleet but Home one could apparently carry 120 fighters. While ships like the Liberty (winged version) carried 36 or so. The number of ships there is hard if you only go by the movies as all you see are the winged versions and then a single Home One version. My guess would be around 1,800 fighters though. They can jump by themselves and the rebellion had multiple Nebulon B's and Corellian Corvettes which can't carry fighters and which could have easilly evened the odds for the numbers being primarilly armed to escort and defend against fighters. I also figure they also had more large cruisers like Home One. I am basing this on logic not what you see in the movie only because wouldnt the death star hit the biggest Rebel ship so Home One couldnt have been the only big target or it would have gone up first. We do see at least 4 different winged cruisers in the movie though. Anyways tangent over

I would say 2,520 for the Imperials and roughly 1,800 for the Rebellion with the Rebellion outnumbering the Imperials in number of larger vessels i.e. corellian corvettes and nebulon B's etc.

I'm actually not surprised that the SSD carries only twice the number of TIE ships as an ISD. The role of an Imperial class is that of a general-role attack ship, while the SSD is a command and coordination vessel, which has an entirely different mission profile. It probably has just enough fighters to make a screen, but the ISD's fighter squadrons are there to provide both a defensive screen and a formidable attack force simultaneously, which requires more fighters.

Regarding the Rebellion's fighters, I think it's reasonable to assume that there were more fighters than the fleet could actually support. They might have pulled fighters from many defense and attack forces around the galaxy on the assumption that it would be a quick battle to destroy the Death Star without the kind of long-term fight we saw in RotJ, which likely necessitated in-flight landing for resupply of warheads, and possibly fuel depending on how far away they jumped from.

Heck, wouldn't it have been a really cinematic thing for the Falcon to have been going around the galaxy picking up fighter groups, sort of like a cavalry charge, then meeting up with the main fleet like we saw in the film? Man, that would have been just as exciting, if not more so, than the actual scene.

There would surely have to be more fighters for the Rebels, I mean a Nebulon-B is hardly a match for an Imperial-II Star Destroyer.

That would have been a nice addition to the Special Additions, to add more fighters to the Death Star battles.

Going by the movies then there were 2,520 Tie Fighters launched by the Imperial Blockade not including those that came from the death star which ,by movie standpoint, there were none.

They can jump by themselves and the rebellion had multiple Nebulon B's and Corellian Corvettes which can't carry fighters and which could have easilly evened the odds for the numbers being primarilly armed to escort and defend against fighters.

I also figure they also had more large cruisers like Home One. I am basing this on logic not what you see in the movie only because wouldnt the death star hit the biggest Rebel ship so Home One couldnt have been the only big target or it would have gone up first. We do see at least 4 different winged cruisers in the movie though.

Stock Nebulon-Bs actually can carry two squadrons (don't trust Empire at War on specifics). CR90s can even carry a flight of 4 without serious modification.

At least four Home One -type MC80s were present, as well as three or more Liberty -types and one or two others, although the Home One herself was the single most capable Rebel ship.

You have a good point about the Death Star's fighter complement not launching or approaching the battle on-screen, I hadn't realized that before. You see TIE pilots and fighters aboard the Death Star at various points, and some of the squadrons were specifically trained to fly inside the superstructure in expectation of a Rebel attack. I think I know where this discrepancy comes from though.

The Endor shield was so powerful that the Rebel fighters could not even approach the station, and the Tydirium had to specifically request clearance to have a section of it deactivated to land. The same shield would have prevented the deployment the station's fighters (if the Rebels can't get in, the Imperials can't get out). This really evens the odds for the Rebels, as they're only fighting 2- or 3-to-1 for most of the engagement!

Once the shield was disabled, they certainly would have launched, but wouldn't have had time to influence the course of the battle before the destruction of the station. Chalk another factor up to Emperor Palpatine not memorizing the "Evil Overlord List".