Hey guys, so I play a tie swarm typically against my brother who uses a couple different rebel lists. I use strictly obsidian squadron, howlrunner, winged gundark, night beast and 4 obsidian ties. My brother has played against this list a few time and it has resulted in imperial victory everytime with minimal loses (1-2 ties). He has tried 3 xwings (luke, bigs and wedge) and he also has a bwing, awing and the falcon to choose from. He seemed to have the most success with han solo and some extras. My question is, with the ships available what would be the best list to use vs my obsidian squadron?

Oh and my brother is getting didcouraged as he now believes that tie fighters are severly undercosted.

Switch lists with him and prove him wrong?

What Tie Swarms hate are the following, in no particular order:

A) Ships they can't hit, (High Evasion fleets, like another Swarm)

B) Ships that can One-Shot Ties

C) Subset of B that deserves special mention: Ships with Autoblasters

D) Ships with Ion Cannons or Ion Cannon Turrets
E) Bombs (Proton or Seismic, specifically), or other guaranteed forms of mass damage

F) Fleets that kill Howlrunner as quickly as possible

G) Fleets with a large Alpha-Strike (Subset of B)

H) Ships with larger firing arcs (YT-1300, Firespray-31, Y-Wing, HWK-290), particularly with Gunner.

I ) Fleets with more than 3 ships

I think 4 ship rebel lists do better against swarms. How about 2xA-wing +2xB-wing?

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v2!31:-1,26:-1:-1:;31:-1,26:-1:-1:;43:36,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;43:36,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:

Ive suggested switching lists, but he seems to think it wont matter. Im just think if i took a a rebel list, id take a bwing with autoblaster, maybe an ORS with assault missiles and an Awing with assault missiles. I have no idea how many points those are but thats where id start. Dunno if i could get an xwing in there.

I think 4 ship rebel lists do better against swarms. How about 2xA-wing +2xB-wing?

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v2!31:-1,26:-1:-1:;31:-1,26:-1:-1:;43:36,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;43:36,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:

2 X-Wings and 2 B-Wings work out better. A-Wings, while difficult to hit (particularly with a Stealth Device), can't 1-shot Ties. However, the original poster only has the 1 B-Wing, so we can choose 2 Xs, an A, and a B, or 3 Xs and a B.

Also, I tend to count a YT-1300 as 2 ships in a 4-ship fleet.

Here are 4 possible lists for him:

========================================================================================

Alpha Strike (G)

Prototype Pilot (A)

+ Assault Missiles (E)

[22]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

+ Proton Torpedoes

[26]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

+ Proton Torpedoes

[26]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

+ Proton Torpedoes

[26]

========================================================================================

Autoblaster

Blue Squadron Pilot (B)

+ Engine Upgrade

+ Autoblaster ©

+ Fire-Control System

[33]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

========================================================================================

Sniper

Blue Squadron Pilot (B)

+ Heavy Laser Cannon

+ Radar Jammer

[33]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

========================================================================================

Han Shoots First

Han Solo

+ Gunner

+ Chewbacca

+ Millennium Falcon Title

[56]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

Rookie Pilot (B)

+ R2 Astromech

[22]

id go with dracons han shoots first list. thats pretty solid. every ship can one-shot a tie. han with gunner should hit something every turn and if he doesnt destroy it outright the rookies can mop them up hopefully.

there are some solid XXBB squads emerging since wave3 as well.

Red Daggers uses 2 Red Squadron Pilots and 2 B-Wings (i think with advanced sensors)

its supposed to be very good against the top squads out there but against a swarm? still a hard matchup.

You need marksmanship on Han. You need those ties to take crits. Try this

B-wing with an auto blaster

Wedge with ptl find the points for an green squadron awing with ptl and an assault missile. Also he should fly the swarm so he learns how it flies. Biggest problem I see players having against a swarm is they don't know how it flies and they get bumped and shot to pieces.

I've been struggling against a swarm with Howl+VI and Soontir + PTL as lead characters. After flying all sorts of squads with little success I can only come up with one more thing to try:

GGGr

Proto + Homing
Green + PTL + Assault
Green + ST
Roark + ICT + Nien Nunb

(couple of points left 4 fun)

As far as strategy I'm thinking Proto will try blocking and breaking TIE formation and thanks to Roark drop Missiles on Howlrunner. After that Ions should focus on Soontir to minimize it's damage output and Greens left focus fire one TIE at a time. I'm afraid It will not go super well as my offense isn't formidable and HSF eats my list 99% of the times.

So, whats left then?

WG??

Wedge + Marksmanship+ Shield
Green + PTL + Homing
??

Fancy possible ??:

Jan Ors + Determination+ICT+Nien+EU comes for 99 and Wedge becomes a ship turn killer as long as Jan is in play. Problem is it's little damage output and early firing...

Luke + PTL+R2-F2+Stealth might be a good game closer but without boosting can be caught by firing arcs quite easy...

Ten Numb + AR +Autoblaster might be a killer but it's not a fast ship. Maybe a Blue + AS + Autoblaster and with those extra points give Wedge R2-D2...

not that fancy ??:

Drop Shield add Stealth on Wedge and you get 4 ships by adding a Rookie and a Prototype.

Hope it helps, I do feel Howl is severly undercosted...

Try this

B-wing with an auto blaster

Wedge with ptl find the points for an green squadron awing with ptl and an assault missile. Also he should fly the swarm so he learns how it flies. Biggest problem I see players having against a swarm is they don't know how it flies and they get bumped and shot to pieces.

This is probably a good squad to take with what you said you guys have. My count puts that at 86 points if the B-wing is a dagger, which gives you some wiggle room to upgrade the A and B to better pilots or add more bells and whistles. If he upgrades the B-wing to a named and takes sensor jammer then hitting him will be a pain, especially with Ib.

Tie Swarm is potent but beatable, Howlrunner swarms especially since you have either the obvious "cut off the head" target, or if the opponent counts on that and only protects her then pick off the rest. If there's no one to give rerolls to Howl is nothing special.

Well last week I fought a swarm. As stated, Ion cannon the first one or the middle one, that screws us the swarm and then hit them with assault missles. The middle one causes the first 3 to go to far and you can hit them with everything you got. Rinse and Repeat. I use a base hawk with a cannon and Awing with Assault missles, then fill out with x-wings, and possible a cheap Y-wing. I change my force frequently. Throw in a markmenship too.

Thanks guys I will deffinately present him with what you have said.

ibitsam with sesor jammer and elusiveness works really well. I have played against it with hlc on his b wings his list was pretty stout. and ibitsam is very hard to hit. my friend james has been playing 3 bwings all with hlc only one is a named pilot (ibitsam) i ran three int's and dark curse. the two ships left before we had to call it were dark curse and ibitsam.

tell him to fight numbers with numbers.. a rebel swarm should counter the tie swarm due to sheer firepower

a rebel swarm consisting of 3 x wings and 2 a wings.. i wouldn't use the Y or the B with this list because they defense is far to low and will drop in the first pass of shots, where as the x wings are more likely to survive the first wave of attacks

but the Y's and B's can be useful in other lists designed to kill swarms

Switch lists with him and prove him wrong?

Why not this? This is what I do with my son. If I win big, then he gets to try the same list. If I still win, then he can see the list not not as overpowered then. If he wins big, then I get to try it, so if I can win, he knows how to loose graciously.

Thing is, does your brother not want to pay Imperial?

tell him to fight numbers with numbers.. a rebel swarm should counter the tie swarm due to sheer firepower

a rebel swarm consisting of 3 x wings and 2 a wings.. i wouldn't use the Y or the B with this list because they defense is far to low and will drop in the first pass of shots, where as the x wings are more likely to survive the first wave of attacks

but the Y's and B's can be useful in other lists designed to kill swarms

As the group fleet supplier (Me) only owns five ties we don't run swarms that often so I have to ask, do Bs and Ys really drop in one pass that often? Assuming the max 8 tie swarm you're probably getting a little over one hit per attack with around four of those dodged if everyone is focusing. To me it seems like a toss-up. Granted it's all but guaranteed to die on the second turn.

I wonder about using the 4 Bomber squad featuring Jonus and three T/B equiped with Assault Missiles and Seismic Charges. They could make very short work of a T/F swarm with all of those area blasts.

I will point out, for those of us on flights of fancy, that the Original Poster has the following ships from which to choose:

3x X-Wing

1x A-Wing

1x B-Wing

1x YT-1300

They will be fighting against the following 7-Tie Swarm:

Howlrunner [18]

Winged Gundark [15]

Night Beast [15]

4x Obsidian Squad Pilot [13 Each]

I'll give you that.

Trying to find a squad using just six ships, and then we should also assume the upgrades available to those ships so no Gunner for the Falcon, will be challenging once the "obvious" suggestions are covered. That still doesn't mean we couldn't/shouldn't suggest the Imp on Imp situation which could be possible despite not being mentioned.

Switch lists with him and prove him wrong?

Why not this? This is what I do with my son. If I win big, then he gets to try the same list. If I still win, then he can see the list not not as overpowered then. If he wins big, then I get to try it, so if I can win, he knows how to loose graciously.

Thing is, does your brother not want to pay Imperial?

This seems like the best option to me.

When I play with my 12-year-old nephew or some teenagers at the local game shop, they both have a tendency to announce that whatever build just beat them is clearly overpowered. If they were playing against Imperials, then the Imperials are underpriced, resulting in an unbalanced swarm that can't be defeated. If they were playing against Rebels, then the Rebels have better upgrades, resulting in overpowered ships that can't be defeated.

I always try to convince them that it has more to do with HOW you fly your ships--your ability to pilot around obstacles, to keep a swarm in formation, to support your other ships and to choose which targets to kill first.

It's always seemed to me like letting them fly the list they're complaining about is the best way to deal with it.

One major item has been missed: PILOT SKILL. If you know you are going up against a Swarm, you know that most of their ships will probably by have low piloting skill, most likely 1.

The thing to remember about piloting skill is better is better, it doesn't matter how much better. Wedge's pilot skill of 9 beats a academy pilot but so does a red squadron pilot's 4. If you know you are going to be fighting a swarm pick mid-range pilot skill ships. You will save a bunch of points and still get all the advantages better pilot skill. If you don't know for sure that you are facing a TIE swarm (with lots of academy pilots) but you think it might be a good chance of facing a swarm, use a range of pilot skills.

One major item has been missed: PILOT SKILL. If you know you are going up against a Swarm, you know that most of their ships will probably by have low piloting skill, most likely 1.

In this case, the Swarm's Pilot Skills are 8,5,5,3,3,3,3, protecting itself from your suggestion by quite a bit. Still, focusing Howlrunner down early, and having your main damage being at 4 or better is a good thing to consider.

Basically, that's one hell of a Tie Swarm to fight against. I would have spread the points around a little to give Howlrunner some better survivability, but this still HURTS.

Thanks for the advice. We will swap lists next time. When we started playing I had read up on obsidian squadron and that is why i wanted to try playing them. It goes before all rookie level pilots which hurts the rebel swarm idea i think.

Thanks for the advice. We will swap lists next time. When we started playing I had read up on obsidian squadron and that is why i wanted to try playing them. It goes before all rookie level pilots which hurts the rebel swarm idea i think.

Tell him to give this list a try:

It's been doing quite well vs. a large array of enemies!