I want to start a comparative discussion on books vs. PDFs. Mostly out of curiosity.

I have heard a lot of murmurings and quiet frustration at the fact that FFG is not issuing PDFs of their books. I have no opinion per se on the good or bad of this decision, and here is why...

I am a gamer who has been at it since AD&D. I have played through that, 2E, 3E and 4E. I have played a few other systems as well, but let's just say that over the last twenty +/- years, I have earned my stripes.

I am no grognard, and I love new and innovative (hence my presence here).

But I LOVE books. In my family, we hoard books. We can give away almost any possession but our books. It's a thing. Parents, cousins, siblings, it doesn't matter. It's in our DNA.

In regards to table-topping, not only am I used to having the books, I like it. I love being able to grab the appropriate sourcebook, flip open to the pages I've looked at a thousand times already (see 2E, lolz), and do what needs done. I love the solid, physical evidence of a book in my hands. Getting that 450 page monstrosity of a core book was tantamount to bliss, and I enjoy thumbing back and forth through the pages nightly; clarifying and cross-referencing, querying and hmmming as I tap the paper with fingers neatly tucked into a half dozen different places, holding the evidence for further perusal.

When TSR was pumping out sourcebooks like daily newspapers, we had no choice but to buy if we wanted to make use of whatever new equipment/race/kit whatever they were putting out there. Our group was a community of friends who all bought their books and made them available to the table. Like a private public library. I know many of you are nodding away grinning right now. So am I. So many nights of character generation spent passing "redbooks" back and forth while questions were called out and in a flurry of flipping, answered.

When I got back into D&D (late into fourth, as we stopped playing about a year before the end of 3rd), I had no choice but to "acquire" a LOT of PDFs and play catch up. As a disclaimer, I am not here to pro/con 4E, so please just keep reading. There is already a community out there for that.

I find gaming at my FLGS is a bit of a culture shock, as there are quite a few people using smartphones, tablets and laptops to consult their rules, etc. I have one of my own, and at work I make use of it to review stuff for the 4E campaign that I recently stopped DMing in preparation to run this awesome new product.

SO after all of that pre-amble, what do you fine people prefer? Physical pages or PDFs? Why? Do you pay for said files? Do you care? Why do you think FFG has gone this route of paper only (at this time)? Where do you see this industry going where this is concerned?

Food for thought: like Ultra-violet DVD packs, should RPG companies sell books with included access codes for PDFs?

Aaaaaannnnnndddd...GO!

I generally prefer PDFs these days…easier to reference things in a properly indexed PDF in an iPad during a session than look up in a book. But you know it's not up to FFG, right? Their license prohibits PDFs, not much they can do about it.

Personally for reference books, I like physical books. Its easier for me to look things up in there.

Story books are easy enough on a tablet. You go always go forward, source books you go back and forth.

I would love it if there were an online searchable SRD for the rules like there is for 3.5e, Pathfinder (the official Paizo one and the d20pfsrd), and Fate. The evidence is only empirical, to be sure, but it doesn't seem to hurt book sales for any of those other systems at all by having the rules freely available.

Failing that, a well-designed smartphone/tablet app with a properly indexed search feature would convince me to part with some additional money in a heartbeat.

For rulebooks and other sourcebooks, I prefer dead tree versions over PDF. I just love the feel and heft of a 400+ page tome. However, for modules, adventure paths, scenarios, and stuff like that, I much prefer PDFs so that I can print them out and then highlight them in a multitude of colors, scribble notes, scratch out stats and revise figures, make big circles around treasure that the players find and X's over the treasure that gets missed, and whatnot.

I have heard a lot of murmurings and quiet frustration at the fact that FFG is not issuing PDFs of their books.

Just to be clear, FFG is not issuing pdfs because it is not in their license to do so, not because their thumbing their noses or worried about piracy or whatever other fabricated offence some people would like it to be to validate their outrage.

That being said, I prefer dead-tree versions as I am a bibliophile. I can appreciate the use of pdfs and tablets and such, but just prefer a good book.

I prefer books for myself however, a lot of the people I game with do not buy books. They are always saying, "Hey let me see the book" or "Pass me the book, I want to look something up". Now for the record I don't mind sharing and I pass my book but then it happens. Someone bends a page, someone else accidentally makes a mark in it because they are not paying attention, or the dreaded non-stop page flip. One guy always puts his thumb at the top corner and just flips through the book, not looking for anything just making the noise and bending the corners on all my pages. That is why I would prefer to have pdf format, not for myself as I love using the book, but for the gamers at the table that don't show the proper care and respect to books.

Unless and until .pdfs are designed to be easily readable by my aged eyes on a standard size tablet (octavo) OR tablets start coming out with roughly 8.5"x11" screens (quarto), then I'll continue to prefer physical books. Notetaking, bookmarking, and searchability are still better experienced with physical books in my experience.

My standard is this. If it's a text I'm going to work with, think about, refer to again and again, then I want a physical book. If it's a toss off beach read that I'll never read again, I prefer to read it on an ereader.

All of which is to say that design is lagging behind technology (.pdfs are by default still designed for documents that are going to be printed out on letter or A4 paper). But so long as electricity and networked communication remain cheap and widely available (and there's no guarantee of either of those, of course), then I have no doubt the two aspects will eventually come together.

I'd love to have PDFs of this stuff, but as others have said, the licenses defining roleplaying games and electronic games were written back in the 80s. So by the licenses a cheap LCD handheld, a PS4 game, and a PDF of EotEs core book are all electronic games (so they belong to lucasarts, and more importantly EA these day)

Just an fyi, the PDFs of modules and such exist because they fill a loophole authorizing "promotional material"

I like pdf's as a supplement to my books, but I prefer hardcopy books over just PDF.

It's hard to say. I like books for some things, especially chargen, but bookmarked, searchable PDFs have their own specific appeal too.

I like both. I love the look and feel of a new RPG book (or an old one for that matter). But also having it in PDF form allows me to have my collection with me wherever I go.

I vouch a mix of each. I like having the hardcover because, personally, I am more inclined to read it if it is tangible and in front of me. Yet, here I am, coding character sheets and group trackers for my online group for easy reference amongst the group.

But, in the end, I have my hardcover book sitting right by my side, and I reference it several more times during play than I reference any of the information I have made easily accessible in Google Docs.

So, Hardcover. Because despite how great it is to integrate technology into a game like this in order to play with people you would otherwise never have met, there is nothing like the knowledge that, when the power goes out and the candles have to be lit, I can still play a round with my family while the people who only have that bootlegged PDF copy have to wait before they can even think about it.

For games I'll go for the searchable PDF/eBook. By the time you have purchased 3 core books and a multitude of supplements you end up with a few KG of books, which is much easier to cart around on a 500g iPad. I also love the ability to zoom in, the font choices in EotE aren't exactly old guy with poor eyesight friendly. Especially the white text on the black background in the space combat section.

For rulebooks and other sourcebooks, I prefer dead tree versions over PDF. I just love the feel and heft of a 400+ page tome. However, for modules, adventure paths, scenarios, and stuff like that, I much prefer PDFs so that I can print them out and then highlight them in a multitude of colors, scribble notes, scratch out stats and revise figures, make big circles around treasure that the players find and X's over the treasure that gets missed, and whatnot.

Funny enough, that is exactly what I have been doing, and didn't even realize the evolution from what I used to do until you pointed it out. The first 4E game I ran was to the Keep on the Shadowfell. Just to see how the system ran. I did just what you described. Printed the whole module out and then ran roughshod over it with hilighters and pencil scratches... Definitely a plus for printables...

I also did not realize that EA and the now defunct LucasArts held all of the digital rights, but that totally makes sense. Duhh... Guess we are back to the ol' photocopier. (were we the only kids that had to sneak past the librarian to make photocopies of the character sheets in school?)

I prefer books for myself however, a lot of the people I game with do not buy books. They are always saying, "Hey let me see the book" or "Pass me the book, I want to look something up".

I am limited (right now) to gaming at my FLGS, which is fine because I am always meeting different people and shenanigans are common. What I see though and dislike, are the amount of people who do as you say: do not buy books. This is merely frustrating because while I buy books from my local retailer and frequent his store, the others don't buy anything from him and download PDFs.

As I mentioned, I have my own PDF "personal" collection, but I have made the effort to purchase over a half a dozen books from the store in the last two years to show support for local business, and to have my precious books.

Does anyone else notice this behaviour? Are there any polite ways to address it, which don't alienate the players?

I realize that not everyone can afford the prices for some of these products(I scrimp and save for my own), and I certainly won't deny someone a seat at the table based on that. I am just curious to see how other stores may view this kind of thing.

After having moved four times in seven years, I have grown to really appreciate my Kindle.

That said, you can't lend two books to two different people if they're on a device. There are certainly benefits to paper for roleplaying books.

While I like having PDFs for quick reference when traveling (or just for RPGs that I know won't see much play), I'm in the camp of "rather have a hard copy in my hands". Personally, I find it a lot easier to look up & cross reference things in a dead-tree version than an electronic one. To say nothing of the purely tactile quality that an actual book has when compared to an electronic version.

Now if a miracle were to occur and FFG got the rights to produce PDFs without having to pay an arm & a leg for the privilege, I'd certainly by buying two copies of each book, one electronic and one physical.

Books. I like books, I love seeing my books on my shelf. I like the smell of books. Books are easier and nicer to read.

While a load of PDFs on my iPad would weigh considerably less, I find reading a lot of print from a screen gives me headaches. I struggle at times with the stupid white text on grey background of this forum.

Did I mention Ilike books?

FFGs books are **** pretty as well.

Also heavy rule books are better for slapping stupid players with

I used to like books until I had too many books. PDFs are the way to go. I normally run at someone else's house and packing up maps, dice, pens, miniatures, terrian, AND core books, supplements, adventures, etc.

No thanks. PDFs just make it easier, plus searchable.

I like to have both. Books for when I'm playing the game and pdfs for when I'm bored at work I can read the books on my phone.

You can have my books when you pry them out of my cold, dead hands.

but then it happens. Someone bends a page, someone else accidentally makes a mark in it because they are not paying attention, or the dreaded non-stop page flip. One guy always puts his thumb at the top corner and just flips through the book, not looking for anything just making the noise and bending the corners on all my pages.

Oh man! I could just go outside and slash those people's tires. I mean seriously. Get your dirty hands off my book! If I wanted the pages to be covered in pizza grease and a layer of doritio dust, I would have just thrown the book in the garbage. Gods help them if they dog ear a page. I'll be rolling dice on death row.

Warhammer 3's pdf made by ffg were lame. Uncompressed, slow and gigantic and protected against writing.

Don't ask for more ffg pdf, even if you think you would like it, because i'm afraid you would be deeply disapointed

(I love books)

Books!

I don't own a fancy phone, or any tablet type device. I'm to old school to even want to use PDF's for gaming.

Sad news about the W3FRPG PDFs (HA! capitalized acronyms...), but I don't see us having to worry much. AND by the time they do get a chance to do that, they will have heeded the whining of those unimpressed by their experiences. FFG seem to be very good at listening to their target market.

I do own a fancy phone, and I love making use of it at work to peruse files. It is a great way to brush up on stuff before a game night.

Sumptin about dem books, though...

I still haven't heard much feedback on those players who mooch off those of us with the wherewithal to pony up the dough, though. Is it wrong to expect people to contribute in some meaningful way beyond just showing up? Like someone who comes to a party with no beer and says "Let's get Pissed!" ALL THE TIME.

Sorry to be disapointed when buying a huge slow uncompressed ebook that i paid to be a fast reference doc.

I had to break the protection against writing and then print the pdf into a pdf...