Long time luker, and i just had to throw my two cense in (as I am an avide Cyberware user in any game thats got them). 1 I seem to remember the anti-cybernetics kicked up about the same time as the anti-droid thinking did in the empire, some thing about how the sepritist had a large number of cyborgs in their army on top of driods (can't sight my source), 2 I found a cybernetic in SoF that is really nice for pilots and would more than happilygo under the knife for that is an avionics interface (Pg 101). Sounds useful, haven't had the chance to use it.

Well I dunno-- some people like their bodies...I couldn't really imagine replacing my arm for a machine arm even if it gave me more strength...but I can see some who would. In the books machines and droids cannot be force sensitive. It's explained to Luke Anakin could have been so much more powerful if he didn't have so many machine parts. Luke cannot and will not be as powerful as he could be-- he's no longer 'whole'-- his hand was taken by Vader. Luke knows Ben will be much more powerful than he will ever be...more than Luke and Vader due to his 'whole-ness'. That's the books mind you.

If you wanted to go along that guideline you could penalize or hamper those who augment themselves in some manner. Force users cannot get the last tier of any force tree unless they already obtained it before machine modifications. Perhaps others cannot get certain parts of their tree.

So maybe a negative effect for modifying I dunno. Just a thought.

Extensive cybernetic replacement could be represented by Obligation or Conflict, as the character struggles with their identity. Minor medical replacements (i.e. Luke's hand) would be a modest amount (5 Obligation or +1 Conflict per session until he narratively resolves that struggle by discovering that Vader is also cybernetic at Endor). Full-body rebuilds like Vader's or intentionally replacing an organic limb for enhancement would be much more.

Alternately, you could permanently lower their Strain threshhold by 1 for each enhancing replacement to represent the same thing without as much bookkeeping.

I like that-- the body gets enhanced but it takes a toll on the body. Subtract thresholds of strain. Just like any type of surgery it's hard on the body-- especially an augment such as mechanical type upgrades. It's almost FALLOUTish too...how many implants can your body sustain sorta thing.

In Star Wars Saga you got -1 to Use the Force for each cybernetic implant you possessed, up to a max of -5. If you wanted to punish a force user with cyberware, I would give them 1 conflict per implant at the start of each session automatic that they would have to deduct from their morality role at the end of the game. This would be on top of whatever conflict they accumulate naturally for making bad choices.

I don't know if its worth 'punishing' players for cybernetics, looking at the group at the moment with who and why have cybernetics:

1 with an arm blown off and replaced with a prosthetic, later upgraded to an brawn enhanced version when had the cash

1 with eyes burnt out by poisoned plant, plus patched in with brain while under for surgery, had the cash for both

1 with a badly maimed arm, replaced with a prosthetic, later upgraded to an agility enhanced version when had the cash, later had eyes replaced and an immune-booster implant due to various reasons/injuries.

The thing is, on a long enough timeline, in our case just a bit under 1000xp and many months of playtime- you're going to get hit, (because you're an idiot adventurer poking a stick at things that will kill you) its going to hurt and there's a chance something is going to get wrecked.

Now, the alternative is that 3 characters that have been around since game session #1 get retired, or they get wired up. Because there is NO OTHER alternative medicine to keep them running and likewise, we're not going to pull punches just to keep bits from falling off because there are repercussions to getting into fights with people/aliens/things/cranky flora and fauna.

Having had several debilitating injuries myself over the years, I'd quite happily replace a mangled scapula, wrecked lower spine and a pretty wonky knee. That's not even taking into account the failing eyesight, lung capacity, brain not working and generally getting old. If it meant a better quality of life, not necessarily a better quality me... because I'm not sure anyone's willing to take on that kind of project!

Alternatives?

But if I was to be given a choice of say, replacing it with cold, scary metal bits or, growing a 'me' inside a cloning cylinder, the surgeon sharpens his cleaver and "wadda ya want lopped off and bunged in now", I'm kinda going to lean towards the metal bits rather than a cloned organ donor being dismembered!

Hi! First time posting here but kinda long time reader

There are examples in the canon of people hacking themselves up voluntarily to "upgrade" body parts. The big example that comes to mind is Count Vidian, antagonist of the recent book A New Dawn. He's at least 90% cyborg, all body parts and organs are cybernetics, as are his eyes. His voice is modulated, his skin is synthetic, etc. I think he only got his original brain, and even than is enhanced.

And he is considered an abomination. Not just because he's so artificial it's unsettling, but because there are rumors it was not out of need but out of want.

It's an extreme example but I think it gives us a good idea how to treat heavy cybernetics enhancement at our tables. They are quite common: accidents and injuries happen in Star Wars (not having any railing in the Galaxy might be a factor) and cybernetics are the way to go, but only to get normal again, to be whole again. When it starts to be too extreme and showing, people are gonna start to react negatively to you, resulting in Setbacks for social checks for example (or maybe Boost dice for coercion, after all everybody thinks you're crazy). You would also be vulnerable to Ion weapons, and would loose your link to the Force (being alive is not the same as being a part of Life). It's all situational, and left to the GM I think as to when and how it's gonna affect the characters.

In Star Wars Saga you got -1 to Use the Force for each cybernetic implant you possessed, up to a max of -5. If you wanted to punish a force user with cyberware, I would give them 1 conflict per implant at the start of each session automatic that they would have to deduct from their morality role at the end of the game. This would be on top of whatever conflict they accumulate naturally for making bad choices.

Eh, I see no need to lean on game mechanics when there is a perfectly reasonable tool in the GM's bag of tricks - story repercussions. If it's that big of a deal, playing out the social stigma is far more powerful than knocking off some conflict.

I forgot about Count Vidian. He was definitely a Vader surrogate, but he was an evil jerk. A good example of how oddly you are treated when you are more machine than man.

I find making them unavailable or putting restrictions on them unneccessary. They are in the canon and I think the reactions here show that many players won't pick them up unless they have to, a few might sure because occasionally you're going to get an individual who doesn't mind self mutilation if it means perfecting themselves. The key is if you view purposely chopping off limbs just to get shiny new one to be abhorrent and sick and feel society in most parts of the universe would agree then by all means have society treat the character like that. Maybe they won't let him into cantina's, doctors willing to do such an unneccessary surgery will be hard to find or will need exhorbitant pay to look past their normal ethics, or maybe the player will just be harassed longer at security checkpoints, etc.

This can also be reflected mechanically with setback dice to social checks against people who see the cybernetic and know how it was put there or suspect that, etc.

I just don't like saying no to my players but perhaps that's because they rarely ever munchkin and think of good rp reasons to do what they do.

Ganks are going to be great fun to RP as a GM, but let the droids have some fun is my opinion, let them spend there creds on beefing up, its the only way they can get a decent stat line.

Thanks kaosoe, eloquently argued.

I guess I could have explained why I have gone for a heavy anti-droid game with my players, but it didn't strike me as if he actually wanted to engage and debate the various genre concepts.

I pointed out you contradicted yourself in multiple posts. I brought up facts about the numerous examples of cybernetics in the Star Wars universe to try to explain to you that it isn't as rare as stated. Its out there, everywhere you just have to look. I never mentioned anti droid sentiment anywhere, so I have no idea what this response is intended to convey.

Anyway I'm not trying to attack anyone and I know it was a 2 year old post, I just was confused about the individual viewpoints being expressed and decided to make an account to voice my own thoughts on the matter. At the end of the day if it works for your table and your players are happy, that's all that really matters.

I'm not sure how a list of a dozen or so people out of trillions in the galaxy really makes a case. That might be a bit of a strawman but even just putting that tally againt the backdrop of the hundreds (or thousands?) actually shown in the movies or books demonstrates how rare cybernetics are. Then when you consider how many of them are not even canon, things look even less chromed.

YMMV. Play it however it's fun for you and yours. I don't think there's a right or wrong. Yet. Walt Disney's frozen head may tell us otherwise.

ymmv?

To be fair that's not really what a straw man is, that'd be arguing against a point your opponent never made and I don't think anyone was saying that they're super common, just that there are people in the SW universe who are willing to get cybernetics just to enhance themselves despite the social stigma against them and that if the players want to play that type of character then why stop them?

I mean it's just like plastic surgery (though more extreme), it might fix flaws people see in themselves and even though people can get them most don't unless disfigured by an accident. However every now and then you'll seen someone with a ton of plastic surgery that just looks hideous or enough noticeable that people will criticize them.

Of course if that's the game the GM wants to run that's there decision alone but saying getting tons of implants isn't cannon is false it's just not common and for players that do it I think most here would agree society in the game likely wouldn't nor should respond well to them, which thanks to the droid rebellion is indeed canon as well.

ymmv?

You're Mileage May Vary... Not sure where the expression comes from but it means your experiences might not be shared by others.

HRH Empatoyayos Brand, King of the Gannatans, heroic Jedi cyborg in exile.

Edit: Yeah, I kind of forgot that I hadn't read it all before replying, sorry.

ymmv?

You're Mileage May Vary... Not sure where the expression comes from but it means your experiences might not be shared by others.

thanks, Haley

Haley is young and trendy and so uses all this modern, 'internet' language!

We oldies can't keep up!

In my day, etc etc...

are out canes in the mail?

Used to walk to school up hill...both ways.

In my day, our movies were just called things like 'Star Wars'.... and we liked it!

None of this 'Episode This' and 'Prequel That' nonsense...

Bah, kids today with their 'I-phones' don't know they're born...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/fa/fa87a4aa3343c8063a073e8f11be03b29c8f12e7e1973f5b4f6808bf4e0760fd.jpg

Haley is young and trendy and so uses all this modern, 'internet' language!

We oldies can't keep up!

In my day, etc etc...

I'm nowhere near your lawn!

Used to walk to school up hill...both ways.

My dad actually did this!

He got up early to ride with my grandfather to open his store every morning. Then he walked to school. It happened to be uphill. After school, he walked home which, again, was uphill! I never hear the end of it...

Haley is young and trendy and so uses all this modern, 'internet' language!

We oldies can't keep up!

In my day, etc etc...

You know, I’m 49. But I did my share of BBS’ing back in the 80s, and YMMV was already old hat by then.

So, I’m not sure where you get this idea about “we oldies can’t keep up” or anything, since this expression is old enough that you should remember it.

Or is it the memory that is going? They do say that goes first … don’t they?

Haley is young and trendy and so uses all this modern, 'internet' language! We oldies can't keep up! In my day, etc etc...

You know, I’m 49. But I did my share of BBS’ing back in the 80s, and YMMV was already old hat by then.So, I’m not sure where you get this idea about “we oldies can’t keep up” or anything, since this expression is old enough that you should remember it.Or is it the memory that is going? They do say that goes first … don’t they?

You BS'd in the 80s about YMMV??? Now I'm confused!