Don't you find heroes are not very strong? (at least their abilities are not) and… why does the mage have better armor than the warrior? They both defend with brown dice (which is awful) but the mage can always have 1 shield due to her ability (which would be the gray defense dice average defense rate)… Don’t know what to think of it

I think the mage has a brown dice because of her heroic ability.

The Fighter has the brown dice because his stats are off the charts and, to a lesser extent, his ability allows him a move whenever he takes damage which can get him out of bad situations. Add in fighter class options and he will likely hit like a truck too.

Don't you find heroes are not very strong? (at least their abilities are not) and… why does the mage have better armor than the warrior? They both defend with brown dice (which is awful) but the mage can always have 1 shield due to her ability (which would be the gray defense dice average defense rate)… Don’t know what to think of it

I think the mage has a brown dice because of her heroic ability.

The Fighter has the brown dice because his stats are off the charts and, to a lesser extent, his ability allows him a move whenever he takes damage which can get him out of bad situations. Add in fighter class options and he will likely hit like a truck too.

Ok to that but, isn't it an almost useless ability? I mean, the average grey die roll is 1 and the average brown is 0 (which you would convert to 1) but the grey max is 3 while the brown's is 2. So whats the point? Wouldn't it be better to have a grey dice and a better ability?

Ok to that but, isn't it an almost useless ability? I mean, the average grey die roll is 1 and the average brown is 0 (which you would convert to 1) but the grey max is 3 while the brown's is 2. So whats the point? Wouldn't it be better to have a grey dice and a better ability?

Early on sure. She will always roll a shield for defense. But then you have to take into account campaign and items. She is going to buy better gear, and each of those defense dice she gets will always be at least 1 shield. Act 2 Mage characters rarely like to get close anyway, unless someone builds the Runemaster Tank build, which this new mage may or may not be good for. (since this is just a glance at the exp.)

Ok to that but, isn't it an almost useless ability? I mean, the average grey die roll is 1 and the average brown is 0 (which you would convert to 1) but the grey max is 3 while the brown's is 2. So whats the point? Wouldn't it be better to have a grey dice and a better ability?

Early on sure. She will always roll a shield for defense. But then you have to take into account campaign and items. She is going to buy better gear, and each of those defense dice she gets will always be at least 1 shield. Act 2 Mage characters rarely like to get close anyway, unless someone builds the Runemaster Tank build, which this new mage may or may not be good for. (since this is just a glance at the exp.)

Right. Thinking of adding defense dice with a minimun of 1 shield is interesting (didn't thought of that). Also I haven't seen class cards so maybe this ability is powered up thanks to some class cards... don't know. I'll wait and see. Thanks for your point of view

Dunno, that mage looks like she has a black defense dice... maybe my eyes are going

I've bought all the expansions and like the game but I really wish the designers would be more proactive in answering questions regarding their game or fixing quest bugs. Our group at least always seems to stumble on issues that come up and the faq is quite old and I'd rather come here for an official one instead of having to track down developer answers on board game geek. I like these expansions and each has had a cool they need to keep up with support after each is released.

My point exactly.

One thing that would really convince me in getting the next extension is if that one addressed the existing errata'd cards.

What I mean is that if I buy this expansion at normal price, I'd get a reprint of the older "core" cards which have been changed due to balance issues.

This would, at least for me, be a nice insentive in getting yet another extension.

And it would show they still address the issues with previous extensions instead of simply rushing the next one for steady income.

Yeah getting a reprint of the errataed cards would be a really nice inclusion. I hadn't thought of it but it seems so obvious after you mentioned it.

Don't you find heroes are not very strong? (at least their abilities are not) and… why does the mage have better armor than the warrior? They both defend with brown dice (which is awful) but the mage can always have 1 shield due to her ability (which would be the gray defense dice average defense rate)… Don’t know what to think of it

Dunno, that mage looks like she has a black defense dice... maybe my eyes are going

jadedbacon is correct, the new Mage character definitely has a black die for her starting defense (one of the few to have that). And with her abilities and feats (especially if she were to get the Rune Armor) she is going to be a pain to kill.

As for the new warrior, depending on the new Skirmishers abilities, he may not be as underwhelming as you think. In fact, his heroic feat is pretty darn good (kind of like Varikas the Dead, but with some options).

"Yeah getting a reprint of the errataed cards would be a really nice inclusion. I hadn't thought of it but it seems so obvious after you mentioned it."

My group and I where just talking about this. We would really like that as well. Just clear up all the questions and all.

Do we know what the new characters' heroic feats are yet? People are talking like they're crazy good or something.

So let me get this straight: The red hero for this expansion who I've dubbed Swifty , who's designed to be a speedy, dodge-oriented combatant, rolls a brown defense die? The new yellow hero (surname Lightfoot) has the same thematic ability (avoiding damage rather than tanking it) and she rolls a black die AND cannot blank on it . Does anyone else see the logical error here? Swifty's a green hero masquerading as a red one.

There's nothing in his build that allows Swifty to 'avoid' any sort of damage as his design implies. Monsters can hit him just as easily as any other hero, he just takes more damage. 4 Might and 4 Awareness are great (and make him better than that chump Eliam) but they don't mean much when he's up against monsters that can cut him down in one or two hits, and his ability remains mostly moot in the face of ranged monsters unless he can dive (one space) out of line of sight. He's going to have to use that 5 movement and 5 fatigue to sweep in, strike as hard as humanly possible, then run like hell before the baddies can catch him; a difficult task when the OL has ranged monsters and hordes of baddies with 5 movement.

If anything, his hero ability should have been "When a monster attacks you, you may spend X fatigue to redirect that attack to an adjacent monster, where X is the damage value rolled on the attack die" or "at the start of your turn, you may spend 1 fatigue to gain Stealthy until your next turn". With only 10 HP and a brown defense die, he's not going to last long in a prolonged encounter without some form of survivability every other red-class hero has.

The Skirmisher cards will be better suited in the hands of any other Red hero -- even Eliam for Pete's sake -- because no matter how well the cards help Swifty, they help all the other heroes the same way.

"Yeah getting a reprint of the errataed cards would be a really nice inclusion. I hadn't thought of it but it seems so obvious after you mentioned it."

My group and I where just talking about this. We would really like that as well. Just clear up all the questions and all.

This is why I don't like errata, because its not in front of me! I generally try to rely on memory and that's bad sometimes lol. I really wish they could release errata cards ect. But then there's a possibility they may change things again due to expansions. It is possible that an unforeseen broken combo could accur an complaints start accumulating over it.

I think that Swifty can be interesting. A warrior that can't "tank" or do the usal: run up to nearest monster, hit it with all you've got, then recive one or two blows from the enemy. To me he looks like a strategy changer, since he is super fast and have loads of fatigue and doesn't suffer from the "typical" warrior problem of low awerness (I hate tripwire). So with Swifty you will have to think more about your place ment since he is more prone to be squished.

I'm excited by this. I do think they are coming out a bit fast, however they seem to be correcting things as they go. The base game of 2nd Ed was in the shadow of Descent, an amazing game and really all 2E had going for it was pretty tiles and molds. W/o the comversion kits, only 8 heroes and not much for the OL...as a base game it was sad. So, I see why they keep pumping things out to create a high level of diversity and changed game play. Its smart and what they have to do in order to keep interest. Unlike 1E, the quests are much faster and less satisfying, so you have to do a campaign, and each of those goes quick and is not as epic as RtL, so a blitz of releases starts giving a lot more options. I think the realized that they have a beach head, but w/o alteration, tha will die off.

One thing that would really convince me in getting the next extension is if that one addressed the existing errata'd cards.

What I mean is that if I buy this expansion at normal price, I'd get a reprint of the older "core" cards which have been changed due to balance issues.

I agree with that, it is frustrating to constantly keep referring back to errata, it would be nice to have actual updates on the cards.

One thing that would really convince me in getting the next extension is if that one addressed the existing errata'd cards.

What I mean is that if I buy this expansion at normal price, I'd get a reprint of the older "core" cards which have been changed due to balance issues.

I agree with that, it is frustrating to constantly keep referring back to errata, it would be nice to have actual updates on the cards.

The end all results, yes. But maybe they are waiting for the game to get a little more full before that happens. Who knows, maybe some of the erratas might not need to happen after all because x hero or x OL cards say it can happen just fine. Or maybe they over errata-ed something and would like to change it before they put the end all on paper. you know?

I agree with Silverhelm 100%. Erratas are hard to keep up with when you don't have them in front of you. Even if I know the card... even if I have played it 100 times, I still like to read it. Sometimes reading it helps me think.

I think that Swifty can be interesting. A warrior that can't "tank" or do the usal: run up to nearest monster, hit it with all you've got, then recive one or two blows from the enemy. To me he looks like a strategy changer, since he is super fast and have loads of fatigue and doesn't suffer from the "typical" warrior problem of low awerness (I hate tripwire). So with Swifty you will have to think more about your place ment since he is more prone to be squished.

A warrior that cannot take a hit is like a mage that doesn't cast spells. Viable, but easily outclassed by people who actually fit the roles they were designed for. Someone is going to have to take a hit if the warrior can't, and I guess FFG wants to make the Tank Mage a new class, given the prevalence of the Rune Plate.

If the combat had more depth to it than Heart - Shield = Damage, maybe Swifty's brown defense die would make sense. The game just doesn't factor evasion at all, outside of Deep Elves/Wendigos having the 'Stealthy' ability. Most quests have far too many monsters in play at once to warrant a melee class with that little health using a die that has a 50% chance to do nothing at all. Swifty's going to be down a lot because he's an easy target; Ten health, poor innate defense and being a warrior class that doesn't use shields means free overlord cards and time wasted having other heroes picking him up. He really needs something to mitigate damage if he's going to be anything more than a liability to his team.

As for Errata just do what my game group does and play it how its on the card. Ignorance is bliss.

As for Errata just do what my game group does and play it how its on the card. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm almost at the point of doing this, myself. In my experience, this game is in no way balanced. Encounters are usually a blowout for one side or the other. There are just too many variables to manage. You might as well just do away with the pretense of balance altogether.

A warrior that cannot take a hit is like a mage that doesn't cast spells. Viable, but easily outclassed by people who actually fit the roles they were designed for. Someone is going to have to take a hit if the warrior can't, and I guess FFG wants to make the Tank Mage a new class, given the prevalence of the Rune Plate.

If the combat had more depth to it than Heart - Shield = Damage, maybe Swifty's brown defense die would make sense. The game just doesn't factor evasion at all, outside of Deep Elves/Wendigos having the 'Stealthy' ability. Most quests have far too many monsters in play at once to warrant a melee class with that little health using a die that has a 50% chance to do nothing at all. Swifty's going to be down a lot because he's an easy target; Ten health, poor innate defense and being a warrior class that doesn't use shields means free overlord cards and time wasted having other heroes picking him up. He really needs something to mitigate damage if he's going to be anything more than a liability to his team.

If this was a straight up "kill all the monsters" game, then sure, he would be bad. But this is an objective game, and this guy will be able to get to objectives relatively easy. Ever think how fast this guy can clear a secret room?

The skirmisher class is an unknown and its probably best for him, but I can see myself using him as a Berserker or a Beastmaster.

As for the mage, I think she has a brown dice for defense, because if she does have a black dice, why would I ever want to use another mage with her available? I guess with exception of Leoric, because he is the ultimate "team" mage.

As for Errata just do what my game group does and play it how its on the card. Ignorance is bliss.

The only objection I have with that is Warlord OL class cards. With the use of low level Magus, it's a broken combo. And this is talking from an OL that has played it. I feel at least Reinforce needs a tweak. Bloodlust could most likely use a tweak as well. Otherwise, I agree! I haven't found anything else with the game that really needs fixing, aside from a few CK things, but that's another can of worms.

If this was a straight up "kill all the monsters" game, then sure, he would be bad. But this is an objective game, and this guy will be able to get to objectives relatively easy. Ever think how fast this guy can clear a secret room?

Are there any quests where clearing a secret room is one of the objectives? This sounds like something of a non-sequitur.

So he's great at getting to objectives, but he's a glass cannon if a monster ever hits him. That means he'll be awesome in some quests and pitiful in others, depending on what the objective is and whether or not the OL is able to get a decent shot in on him. I suppose time will tell just how often this guy ends up flat on his back.

I think that Swifty can be interesting. A warrior that can't "tank" or do the usal: run up to nearest monster, hit it with all you've got, then recive one or two blows from the enemy. To me he looks like a strategy changer, since he is super fast and have loads of fatigue and doesn't suffer from the "typical" warrior problem of low awerness (I hate tripwire). So with Swifty you will have to think more about your place ment since he is more prone to be squished.

A warrior that cannot take a hit is like a mage that doesn't cast spells. Viable, but easily outclassed by people who actually fit the roles they were designed for. Someone is going to have to take a hit if the warrior can't, and I guess FFG wants to make the Tank Mage a new class, given the prevalence of the Rune Plate.

If the combat had more depth to it than Heart - Shield = Damage, maybe Swifty's brown defense die would make sense. The game just doesn't factor evasion at all, outside of Deep Elves/Wendigos having the 'Stealthy' ability. Most quests have far too many monsters in play at once to warrant a melee class with that little health using a die that has a 50% chance to do nothing at all. Swifty's going to be down a lot because he's an easy target; Ten health, poor innate defense and being a warrior class that doesn't use shields means free overlord cards and time wasted having other heroes picking him up. He really needs something to mitigate damage if he's going to be anything more than a liability to his team.

He is painted red but he's more green to me and that's not a bad thing!

My two cents anyway...

Initial thoughts from preview:

OOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHH NEW EXPANSION

*achem*

While a city theme doesn't blow me away, I like that it's quite different from what we've seen for Descent thus far, so it intrigues me.

NEW MONSTERS OOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH

I've actually gotten a recent interest in playing heroes, so new ones will be cool, considering these ones strike my fancy:

-brown die Swifty, while probably not a fan favorite, will at least be interesting to play

-new Mage definitely has a black die, as far as I can tell

-finally, a Scout class that I'll actually want to play

-Bard, while not my favorite idea for a class going into it, seems like it has an interesting enough mechanic

Looks like a new ally, and at least three new lieutenants? The second image from the preview, with all the components surrounding the box art, has a 2 x 2 token, looks like a baddie, plus the 2 x 1 and the single-space one further down.

And just because I can't emphasize it enough, NEW MONSTERS OHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHH

I couldn't care less about errata'd stuff because I don't play with errata. Shrug.

DID SOMEONE SAY NEW MONSTERS?

Still don't have Trollfens, which is an obvious must-have, but I'm already looking forward to this one.

Are there any quests where clearing a secret room is one of the objectives? This sounds like something of a non-sequitur.

So he's great at getting to objectives, but he's a glass cannon if a monster ever hits him. That means he'll be awesome in some quests and pitiful in others, depending on what the objective is and whether or not the OL is able to get a decent shot in on him. I suppose time will tell just how often this guy ends up flat on his back.

Secret Rooms are usually secondary objectives, but they take time and sometimes the risk is greater than the reward. However, if you can cut down the time needed to clear a secret room, you cut the risk and grant a boon to your hero group. Its situational for sure, but nt something that should be discounted.

And you are correct, he is a glass cannon. How he does will ultimately depend on how well he is used by his player.

If this was a straight up "kill all the monsters" game, then sure, he would be bad. But this is an objective game, and this guy will be able to get to objectives relatively easy. Ever think how fast this guy can clear a secret room?

The skirmisher class is an unknown and its probably best for him, but I can see myself using him as a Berserker or a Beastmaster.

As for the mage, I think she has a brown dice for defense, because if she does have a black dice, why would I ever want to use another mage with her available? I guess with exception of Leoric, because he is the ultimate "team" mage.

The encounters are usually not kill-all campaigns, but each encounter DOES contain monsters: Monsters that the OL will use to block paths, kill NPCs or carry objective tokens; Monsters that need to be defeated in order for the heroes to complete their objective. Combat in this game is unavoidable , and having a low-health hero with flimsy defense options spending most of their time in harms' way like a red-class does is a recipe for frustration. If Swifty can't bring down a monster and get far enough out of harm's way from the other monsters on the map, he's going to faceplant frequently and spectacularly. Five fatigue doesn't mean much when he's constantly at full fatigue from being KOed all the time.

If the Skirmisher class provides Swifty with some survivability, then what's stopping players from picking a hero with naturally MORE survivability like Nanok of the Blade or Hugo the Glorious and using the Skirmisher deck instead? While they have less move and fatigue, they're considerably harder to bring down, which is more valuable to the party in the long run than spending actions to pick Swifty up every turn.

The new fighter's value comes from two factors. First, he has more speed than any other fighter, and getting wounded actually increases his movement range. With his ability, a grey or black die would actually make him weaker , as it would decrease his effective speed. Second, even though he may be relatively easy to kill the first time, his ultimate ability should keep him from getting targeted a second time. He will play differently from other fighters, for sure, but that's one of the things that makes him interesting.