Yet another meta-shaking ship for future releases: The TIE Phantom

This design never saw action so far. What do you think about this nifty piece of imperial weaponry?

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I hate to be that guy, but Im really starting to think you have no idea how over powered and under priced you are making these cards. Both of those ships would be well over 30 points (take a rookie x-wing which is a 2 PS, 3 hull, 2 shields, and 3 attack for 21 points). Then you add in an upgrade that would be worth twice the amount and only available for one ship, even though the last sentence makes no real sense. ECM I kind of understand but even then that is still worded poorly, is it targeted front arcs or being the target of another TL? Only thing I honestly like is the self-Destruct mechanism, but that is under priced as well, seeing as you could run 4 lambda's and a tie with it and shoot one turn, lower the initial health of all other ships, then run them into the other team and blow them all up, would be hilarious and kinda of cost effective.

This is in my top three want to see it made ships. I love it. I think the skill would be high because only top pilots would be allowed to fly it.

Sorry to say, I have never even heard of a TIE Phantom. It seems to me that its stats are a bit over the top. I mainly hope that any future waves will not add a "powercreep", like the type that has made me give up so many other games. I hope no future releases make my classic favourites redundant and unusable. If this was released, why would I run an Interceptor, or especially Advanced?

To be a bit more positive, I do really like the self-destruct mechanism, but maybe as a modification. ECM seems like a decent system as well.

The best tailor made upgrade cards I've seen keep the point cost reasonable, are not too wordy, make no attempt to create some special one-of rule and can potentially be used on our existing ships.

I like the idea but I really don't like the model and yeah, your cards are getting a bit out there. Need to reconstruct and be more clear and concise.

Ok, first of all, the TIE Phantom is a specilized imperial spacecraft, wich saw action in a few computer games.

Its very special and highly experimental stygium cloaking device completely hides the ship, allowing the absolute initiative when attacking. In fact, the TIE Phantom actually could attack while staying cloaked - but this would probably break the game

Now, to reflect a 'real cloaking device' in X-wing along with the initiative gain, all neccessary rules have place on a single upgrade card, wich of course only the TIE Phantom could use.

let me explain what the stygium cloaking device actually does:

If activated (it costs an action) the ship can't be attacked at range 2-3, nor can it be target locked. While the cloak is active, the Pilot skill rises to the value 14 to reflect the initiative gain.

For example: A TIE Phantom with the device and pilot value 4 fights against Luke Skywalker in his X-Wing, with PS 8 and a Rookie with PS 2.

The Rookie moves first towards the Phantom and choses the focus action. The player with the TIE Phantom moves second and as his action, he activates the cloak. Afterwards its Luke's turn. His X-Wing ends his movement within range 3 and both ships are in each others fire arcs. Because the cloak is active, Luke can't target lock the TIE Phantom, so he takes a focus token instead. End of movement phase, begin of combat phase. Since the PS of the TIE Phantom is now 14, it is his turn. He decides wether he should attack or don't. If he attacks, the cloak will be suspended until his natural pilot value is reached in terms of turn order. So he decided to attack Luke and scored one hit. Now Luke is attacking the now visible Phantom and misses. Afterwards, the Phantom with the natural PS of 4 automatically reactivates the cloak, so again he can't be a target of enemy ships at ranges 2-3. Then its the rookies turn - he can't fire at the phantom, because he is at range 3 and can't see anything to fire at. At the end of the round the device is disengeged and the Phantom again get his PS4 at the start of next round.

Basically thats the idea. I know, its highly experimental - just like the stygium cloaking device is. The Phantom makes the dogfights even more tactical. I'm thinking of it like the secret weapon of the Imperium - hidious, dangerous, outnumered and not easy to fly - but if used properly, very effective.

Attack Wing handles Cloaking well, so I can see something like until end of turn you PS goes to 14 and you gain +2 evade dice but your shields no long protect you while doing the action. Or no PS boost and +3 evade dice. It's a hard thing to balance on the fly but I can be done. Pts cost is always the bottom line factor IMO. If you want to bring something insanely good to the table that's fine as long as its appropriety costed.

Game balance is key and your points costs do not reflect that. Based on the stats alone, the PS 2 ship would be 30 pts before taking into account the fact is has evade, focus, barrel roll and the systems upgrade. The cloaking device is beyond overpowered. A Stealth device is 3 points and for 7 you are getting virtual immunity to being hit.

For 7 points I would expect that you could roll two extra evade dice and if hit you lose the ability for the rest of the game. That seems balanced at 7 points or it costs you your action to activate every round and you get 2 extra dice, but don't lose the ability if hit. The other problem with the cloak is that you already have 3 evade and the evade option. If you use cloak even as I describe it, you will be rolling min 5 def dice, maybe as many as 7. You'll pretty much be immune to hits.

if you have a cloaking device, then why did you put a shield value of 2 on it? pick one or the other for theis points cost....or up your point value. this ship is kinda cool LOOKING. but your cards make it into a real fantasy piece, no near where in this games balance or reality.

and who would spend that many points on a ship that blows up and deals only one damage to ships in R1? seems kinda dumb actually.

if you have a cloaking device, then why did you put a shield value of 2 on it? pick one or the other for theis points cost....or up your point value. this ship is kinda cool LOOKING. but your cards make it into a real fantasy piece, no near where in this games balance or reality.

and who would spend that many points on a ship that blows up and deals only one damage to ships in R1? seems kinda dumb actually.

1. Because this craft actually HAS shields. I am not the inventor of this ship. But thanks.

2. My cards reflect the stygium cloaking device realistic in the scope of the game. you can't shoot something you cannot see.

3. The self-destruct device is actually taken from background. Its to valuable to let the rebels get their dirty hands on it. Now to make this card more valuable for the game (and more dangerous hehe) replace the cards text with the following: "If the ship is destroyed all ships within range 1 recieve 1 damage"

4. Thanks for your feedback, though.

The problem is the ships are hugely underpointed and the upgrades are confusingly written and underpointed on top of it. Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

The problem is the ships are hugely underpointed and the upgrades are confusingly written and underpointed on top of it. Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

I just adepted the style like FFG does cards

The problem is the ships are hugely underpointed and the upgrades are confusingly written and underpointed on top of it. Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

I just adepted the style like FFG does cards

Well you can't really be blamed for the ship looking a bit rubbish, it looks like the Imperial Shuttle and a TIE fighter had an ugly child.

The problem is the ships are hugely underpointed and the upgrades are confusingly written and underpointed on top of it. Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

I just adepted the style like FFG does cards

Well you can't really be blamed for the ship looking a bit rubbish, it looks like the Imperial Shuttle and a TIE fighter had an ugly child.

Thats maybe the true reason why the stygium cloaking device was designed

The problem is the ships are hugely underpointed and the upgrades are confusingly written and underpointed on top of it. Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

I just adepted the style like FFG does cards

Well you can't really be blamed for the ship looking a bit rubbish, it looks like the Imperial Shuttle and a TIE fighter had an ugly child.

Thats maybe the true reason why the stygium cloaking device was designed

That is probable.

I prefer my TIE varients to be the bastard child of a X-Wing and a TIE... At least they look dangerous... if you accidentally step on one when you are going to the bathroom at night.

Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

HOW DARE YOU...

Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

HOW DARE YOU...

Denial, is not just a river in Egypt.

The 3/3/3/2 stats seem right, but I would get rid of the barrel roll (maybe, just because it is a 2-seater) and give it a Cloak ability. Here is what I would do for the cloak:

Upon performing this action, place 1 Cloak token on the ship. Upon the next Movement phase, you REVEAL your dial, but do not move your ship. Your ship cannot fire and is untargetable this round. On the following Movement phase, choose another maneuver; then perform both movements simultaneously. Then remove the Cloak token.

This is something my brother thought up. Essentially, it cloaks, moves, moves, and decloaks, but without the opponent being able to see where it is after the first move. It also makes it hard on the player because he has to visualize where his ship would be after the first move and then where it will end up after the second.

Number of seats have no effect on barrel rolls. You can barrel roll in a 767.

Oo.. and I also really dislike how the Phantom looks.

HOW DARE YOU...

Denial, is not just a river in Egypt.

Number of seats have no effect on barrel rolls. You can barrel roll in a 767.

But you'd spill a lot of drinks in first class and that would definitely give you a stress token.

Number of seats have no effect on barrel rolls. You can barrel roll in a 767.

But you'd spill a lot of drinks in first class and that would definitely give you a stress token.

I know someone that has done this .. they didn't have any passengers at the time.

Nah, centrifugal force works.

Actually, I really like the looks of the ship. Also, I don't think the points costs you have here are off by much. It is basically a TIE Advanced with +1 gun. 2 points more than the overpriced TIE Advanced is on the low side but somewhat reasonable, especially since it gives up Target Lock (which makes that 3 firepower significantly less dangerous) and the ability to carry missiles. The sensors upgrade is an excellent alternative it receives in return, but it does still need to pay the cost of that upgrade to use it. Make it 24 points base, which is a TIE Advanced plus 3 points for the improved guns, and call it good.

As for the cloaking device, it is too powerful plain and simple. What you have there would be utterly game breaking, especially on high-PS ships, even if it cost 30 points. It seems like you were trying for "realism", but if we were actually going to do things "realistically" then a one-off super high-tech system like that should cost somewhere on the order of 10,000 points to reflect the actual cost of developing and deploying it. So if you want to translate it into usable game stats, you will need to tone down the effectiveness. How about 5 points, and the Phantom cannot be targeted at Range 3. Simple to word, simple to use, and not too outrageously effective since Range 3 shots are fairly ineffective anyway. For ECM, maybe have the opponent roll an attack die when he attempts to TL the Phantom, and he succeeds on hits/crits. That would have the advantage of using a pre-existing mechanism for simplicities sake but would still perform a logical function. Self-Destruct looks just fine to me exactly as you wrote it. Since it is a sensor upgrade that is only available to relatively expensive ships (and uses up that valuable slot), plus it requires an action, I don't think it is out of balance at all.

Actually, I really like the looks of the ship. Also, I don't think the points costs you have here are off by much. It is basically a TIE Advanced with +1 gun. 2 points more than the overpriced TIE Advanced is on the low side but somewhat reasonable, especially since it gives up Target Lock (which makes that 3 firepower significantly less dangerous) and the ability to carry missiles. The sensors upgrade is an excellent alternative it receives in return, but it does still need to pay the cost of that upgrade to use it. Make it 24 points base, which is a TIE Advanced plus 3 points for the improved guns, and call it good.

As for the cloaking device, it is too powerful plain and simple. What you have there would be utterly game breaking, especially on high-PS ships, even if it cost 30 points. It seems like you were trying for "realism", but if we were actually going to do things "realistically" then a one-off super high-tech system like that should cost somewhere on the order of 10,000 points to reflect the actual cost of developing and deploying it. So if you want to translate it into usable game stats, you will need to tone down the effectiveness. How about 5 points, and the Phantom cannot be targeted at Range 3. Simple to word, simple to use, and not too outrageously effective since Range 3 shots are fairly ineffective anyway. For ECM, maybe have the opponent roll an attack die when he attempts to TL the Phantom, and he succeeds on hits/crits. That would have the advantage of using a pre-existing mechanism for simplicities sake but would still perform a logical function. Self-Destruct looks just fine to me exactly as you wrote it. Since it is a sensor upgrade that is only available to relatively expensive ships (and uses up that valuable slot), plus it requires an action, I don't think it is out of balance at all.

What about a cloaking ability like mine (post #18). Would that be broken or too hard to implement?