Is the toolkit 350cr too expensive?

By DanteRotterdam, in Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG

I'm wrong?
Just going to cite the exact text from the book here for the item and bold what I think is relevant.


Yeah, I did bother to read it.

Okay I think the problem here is not that the toolkit is to expensive, but rather that you and your player didn't bother to fully read the gear section.
Check out utility belt sometime, it's 25 credits, grants +1 Encumbrence threshold, and provides all the "basic tools" you need to perform a particular proffesion (such as mechanic or doctor, etc).

I read your post and then picked up the book and read it again. You are wrong.

Perhaps you should bother reading it again?

"A utility belt is a common item for those on active missions where quick access to tools and gear is a neccessity; even Imperial stormtroopers use them. Their contents will vary with their user and their planned actions; sabotage missions might have belts with explosives and security slicer chips, while a ship mechanic might have his stuffed with his favorite tools. Some belts also have weapon holsters or clips.
Utility belts increase the character's encumbrance threshold by 1."

Now I assume you took this as "just" the belt, but if that was the intent of the writer I'm not quite sure what would be the purpose of descrbing the contents of the belt, surely a player could easily figure out what to put in there themselves if it was "just" a belt.

Edited by Dark Bunny Lord

You're reading crunch into fluff. "Tools for the job" is a term of art in this system, sidebar p. 171. "Favorite tools" does not mean the same thing, plus it's in flavor text. Note how the descriptive section of basically every piece of gear is in (generally) two paragraphs: one describes the item, the other describes its mechanical effect. The former is flavor; the latter is crunch.

Look at the entry for tool kit: big wall o text listing all the possible tools in it. Nowhere in it does it say "a power cutter does X, fusion couplings do Y" because this a more narrative system and that level of detail is simply inappropriate for it. Anyway, below that long paragraph: "toolkits allow mechanics to perform most Mechanics checks to repair mechanical devices, and can also be used to 'heal' droids." THis is the mechanical effect.

Now look at the entry for utility belt: wall o text listing possible uses/things it's stuffed with depending on character type, then: "increase encumbrance threshold by 1." Nowhere does it say a slicer got slicer tools for free to go in his utility belt, merely that he might have put them there to take on a job. The mechanical effect is "+1 encumbrance threshold." No more, no less.

This basic paragrapho-of-fluff-then-paragraph-of-crunch formatting is followed in basically every tool/piece of gear that has strict and tight mechanical effects. Things like datapads don't have this format, in part because any given datapad is not going to have one specific mechanical benefit, there are a number of benefits a datapad could give, or none beyond simply providing information for the plot.

But if you're arguing that you can/should get the worth of a 350c toolkit or a set of 500c slicer gear for free by just-so-happening to be a Mechanic or Slicer and buying a 25c utility belt...that's neither the RAW nor the RAI of that item.

Edited by Kshatriya

I never said or intended to say that the belt included all the tools for a mechanic to 'do their job'. Only a tool kit could do that, however if a player wanted to use a utility belt to carry 1 ENC worth of tools that would allow them to repair say computers and droids , or vehicles only, I would allow that, given the description. This saves them from lugging around 4 ENC worth of tools, many of which are not appropriate. If they then want to fix a starship they face a penalty. Given the description I don't think this stats far from the RAW or RAI.

As far the blaster, there are two things here, firstly a blaster could cost more because of its components, rarity, taxes, supply and demand, etc. Given the slugthower pistol as an alternative which is much cheaper, it does give choice for those that are cash strapped, 25 credits gets a combat knife that you can use until the first enemy carrying a blaster bites the bullet(so to speak).

After all, it's not like a mechanic has even got ranged skills as a starting career skill. ( in the beginner set the mechanic starts with shock gloves).

Edited by syrath

I think EoE is a great game... but that it does a poor job of portraying the movies.

I don't care personally, I'm not playing the movies!

Edited by Maelora

Phild: the reason there is variation in equipment is that having one set of generic blaster stats to go with every possible model of blaster is boring as all hell. Blaster strength doesn't deviate greatly, all blasters are typically capable of killing a minion in one hit. The difference is in the details, firing modes, concealability, range, customization, etc.

[...]

The characters in the movie do stop to loot a couple times. They loot stormtrooper blasters. And, frankly, you're reading the films way too much into a game. Players loot. It happens. So it doesn't occur much in the movies. Why does that matter?

They do indeed loot storm trooper blasters. When they're unarmed. What they don't loot storm trooper blasters because they've got better damage and range than their pistols.

But look, I'm reasonable, I will concede on one point. We all like loot :) And actually, this is where the mod rules work really well to counter, by allowing players to "level up" their gun of choice reducing the incentives for players to trade up.

Also, no cyber? Dark Vader has multiple cybernetic components. Luke has a cybernetic hand. And cybernetic components can also be used to model upgrades for droids instead of replacing organic parts on organics.

As writ, it would make sense for every wealthy character to be walking around cybered to the nines and yet there is no evidence of this at all in the canon. Every Imperial Admiral should have a headband giving +1 Int. Every Imperial Guard should have cybernetic limbs. Every elite bounty hunter should look like a Terminator. But they don't.

I'm wrong?

Just going to cite the exact text from the book here for the item and bold what I think is relevant.

Yeah, I did bother to read it.

Okay I think the problem here is not that the toolkit is to expensive, but rather that you and your player didn't bother to fully read the gear section.

Check out utility belt sometime, it's 25 credits, grants +1 Encumbrence threshold, and provides all the "basic tools" you need to perform a particular proffesion (such as mechanic or doctor, etc).

I read your post and then picked up the book and read it again. You are wrong.

Perhaps you should bother reading it again?

"A utility belt is a common item for those on active missions where quick access to tools and gear is a neccessity; even Imperial stormtroopers use them. Their contents will vary with their user and their planned actions; sabotage missions might have belts with explosives and security slicer chips, while a ship mechanic might have his stuffed with his favorite tools. Some belts also have weapon holsters or clips.

Utility belts increase the character's encumbrance threshold by 1."

Now I assume you took this as "just" the belt, but if that was the intent of the writer I'm not quite sure what would be the purpose of descrbing the contents of the belt, surely a player could easily figure out what to put in there themselves if it was "just" a belt.

Well, I hate to repeat myself but you are wrong.

Having a belt that can be used to stuff items into doesn't mean you have these items... Buying a wallet doesn't mean it contains money.

The way in which you interpret it seems to be a short cut to being able to have anything you want by just buying the belt it fits in.

Edited by DanteRotterdam

The way in which you interpret it seems to be a short cut to being able to have anything you want by just buying the belt it fits in.

That sounds more like the Utility Belt Talent.

Phil, I'll admit, the inclusion of cyber stuff surprised me a lot. Made me think a lot of Shadowrun, and not the themes of Star Wars. Luke's done some creative things with his hand in the EU but generally I agree with you there. I think the cuber-stuff is better seen as upgrades for droids, as well as the difficulty of finding the gear in general and a surgeon to competently perform it.

And ehhh I am pretty sure people loot in Star Trek games, in LotR games, etc, even though that's not depicted in that media. But I can see how it breaks simulation for you.