In addition to a seperate topic on whether or not 500cr. is sufficient for a starting character on the AoR boards, I'll post a seperate topic here.

350cr, for a toolkit that is a necessity for every mechanic, seems awful expensive to me. It left our astromech with only 150 to spend on a weapon.

That gave him only the option to take a slugthrower pistol which seems out of place for both a droid as well as a mechanic. It didn't seem right to take on extra obligation for such a simple outfit...

I think it would be a lot more appropriately priced at 200cr. or 250cr. I know a med pac goes for 400cr. but a doctor has the option to take an emergency medpack into the field at 100cr.

Especially considering that the toolkit in and of itself hardly has any concrete benefits besides the right tool for the job thing going on.

I therefor allowed my mechanic to take a blasterpistol instead of the slugthrower at no additional obligation...

Any thoughts?

An astromech droid with a gun? o.O

I don't think 350cr is out of line. The droid could easily opt to not carry a gun. Or take on additional obligation. But at the end of the day it's your game, so if it works for your group, go for it!

If you think it's right, go for it.

I think we need to get away from the whole D&D style 'wealth by level' thing.

I mean, heck, you can get a 120k ship for free to start with, so I don't feel a lousy 350 credit toolkit is going to break any game balance.

My thoughts are to give starting characters the basic stuff they need to begin with. They won't have mods or top-of-the-line stuff yet, they can earn that... But neither should they be stuck without the tools to do their job, or reduced to hurling rocks at stormtroopers.

A medic or a mechanic should have a basic medikit or toolkit. A slicer should have slicer tools. A character with Ranged Light can have a basic blaster pistol, and Ranged Heavy gets you a basic blaster rifle without having to scavenge it from your first stormtrooper kill.

That just seems common sense to me.

The only problem I perceive is the wookiee saying "I am a wookiee mechanic, so I want to start with a bowcaster, toolkit, and in the tool kit is a heavy tool that counts as a truncheon, another that counts as a vibroblade, and a plasma cutter that counts as a holdout blaster"

If you OK with that then OK, if not then you should probably stick to the default.

I think there's a big difference between a medic saying "my basic kit should involve a medpack" and a Wookiee saying "my basic kit should include a bowcaster."

IIRC the toolkit says that tools can be used as improvised weapons, but anyone expecting to get a free vibroblade out of it better be ready for me lolling at them.

The only problem I perceive is the wookiee saying "I am a wookiee mechanic, so I want to start with a bowcaster, toolkit, and in the tool kit is a heavy tool that counts as a truncheon, another that counts as a vibroblade, and a plasma cutter that counts as a holdout blaster"

If you OK with that then OK, if not then you should probably stick to the default.

Yeah, that was what I said... Wow, exagerate much?

An astromech droid with a gun? o.O

Well, I don't think that is to weird to be honest. In the prequels we see R2 holding a comlink, we see him pick up and use other stuff as well so I don't think that it is so bad to have them be able to shoot either.

It is an rpg where there are 4 pc's getting into the occasional fight and I don't want my player to stand in the back saying, I'll just repair this table for the next 20 minutes.

It is an rpg where there are 4 pc's getting into the occasional fight and I don't want my player to stand in the back saying, I'll just repair this table for the next 20 minutes.

Yeah, but your PC is making that choice for himself when he builds an astromech. Astromechs don't really do a lot of combat.

When the guns come out, our mechanic ducks for cover. The most he can do is stay the hell out of the way. His character is built that way. If your PC built a more mixed bag kind of droid, that's good too, but I wouldn't give the player a free weapon unless you were prepared to also give the rest of the party free gear of equal value.

I wouldn't do it, but it's your game.

The only problem I perceive is the wookiee saying "I am a wookiee mechanic, so I want to start with a bowcaster, toolkit, and in the tool kit is a heavy tool that counts as a truncheon, another that counts as a vibroblade, and a plasma cutter that counts as a holdout blaster"

If you OK with that then OK, if not then you should probably stick to the default.

Yeah, that was what I said... Wow, exagerate much?

A little, though communication via text can lose a little context.

Starting gear is usually set at the level it is for a reason, but I'm also the kind of GM who has nothing wrong with giving the players a nebulon b frigate, provided the campaign I'm writing is designed to handle that.

That's what I really meant, if your campaign is set to support improved starting gear there is no issue. If you are going to run a lot of canned adventures, prolly better to stick with the core books guidance.

Our mechanic has saved us a ton of money in repairs. 350 Cr. for a tool kit is nothing.

It is an rpg where there are 4 pc's getting into the occasional fight and I don't want my player to stand in the back saying, I'll just repair this table for the next 20 minutes.

Yeah, but your PC is making that choice for himself when he builds an astromech. Astromechs don't really do a lot of combat.

When the guns come out, our mechanic ducks for cover.

Yeah, that would make an excellent game for him, no doubt.

"I shoot."

"You can't."

"I'll repair stuff."

"Nothing's broken."

"Ok... I'll play Angry Birds on my phone while you guys finish the encounter."

Awesome!

Actually R2 did quite a lot of combat in the 6 movies he was in. I'll just stick with that as a reference thank you very much.

I'm starting to work up a notion for "starting kits" for careers/specializations. I'm not sure the best way to do this, mainly because an Assassin, Gadgeteer, or Survivalist will all benefit from the same general kit, whereas a Doctor and Politico might need vastly different things, ditto for a Mechanic and a Slicer.

So for now, some Specializations (currently all Bounty Hunters, Hired Guns, and Smugglers" can take "up to 500 credits of weapons, armor, or combat/survival related gear" in addition to flat-out getting 500 credits to buy whatever else. Why 500 credits worth of gear? It's the cost of baseline Slicer Gear in the Tools section, which would be flat-out required for any Slicer to take in order to do a lot of their job. Compare to Slicers getting slicer gear, Doctors getting a medkit, and Mechanics getting a tool kit, and then being able to afford a blaster and some clothes on top of it.

I'm a little worried this is too much, but I also worry about telling the Mechanic "ok, you get a tool kit free," and telling the Marauder "just spend your credits and take Obligation if you want that vibro-axe."

Actually R2 did quite a lot of combat in the 6 movies he was in.

Actually, now I'm exaggerating....

I don't know, I think he missed out on a good opportunity here. A tool kit with a slugthrower. Both built it. The slugthrower could be a pneumatic device allowing him to shoot nuts and bolts at targets. Just think of those images. And what is wrong with using various tools as improvised weapons. Unless combat is his schtick, which it sounds like it isn't, he should not be too worried about DP.

And while R2 participated in various ways in combat, not once do I remember him ever picking up a pistol. Not to say that it couldn't happen, though, with another astromech. Your player might be better off trying other options like influencing the environment and such.

Our mechanic has killed more people so far than anybody else and he is a pacifist. Floating in space without the proper gear can be a... Just ask those pirates that boarded us. Oh wait, you can't.

Rand, our mechanic extraordinaire, probably has more fun at the table than anybody else. The crap he comes up with every time we play is awesome. He is also solely responsible for the armored cargo truck we have. Not only was he able to get it up and running, he was able to armor it with scraps he acquired. Supped up our speeder that we took out on loan to assure we would win a pod race. Drove the cargo truck in just in time to give us cover in a fight that was going bad. The list goes on. He has yet to pull his blaster that only has a stun setting on it.

350 Cr. for a tool kit is nothing. Rand has made his money back and then some.

Our droid took the extra obligation for 500 credits and got the toolkit and a bunch of other equipment.

It's not that the tool kit is too expensive (at 350 credits, it's cheaper than a standard blaster pistol) it's that 500 credits for starting characters is far too little. Every PC in my game took 5 Obligation to get +1,000 credits. I'm told that is the intended way to play it, but it did seem off to us to have to take on extra Obligation just to get what we considered 'baseline' gear.

Yeah, the point of "500 credits is too little" was raised during the EotE Beta, by myself and a couple others. And we were told, in much nicer terms, to simply shut it and just take extra Obligation if we wanted more for starting gear than a decent blaster, a set of heavy clothes, and a comlink.

Though I've not been able to get a prolonged campaign off the ground, the couple times that I did convince my group to play, I simply doubled their starting credit allotment to 1000 credits, and it worked out pretty well. The group was five characters, so everyone had a base Obligation of 10, and only a couple PCs took extra Obligation, both for an extra 5 XP.

If a GM truly feels that 500 credits is too little for their PCs, I'd suggest doing as I did and doubling (maybe even tripling) the amount of starting credits that a PC gets. You may need to be wary of PCs then taking +10 Obligation to get an extra 2500 credits, as that will leave them with a substantial nest egg and thus access to gear that's normally too expensive to purchase.

As for the main topic, I'm thinking of carrying over the personal multitool from Saga Edition's Unknown Regions sourcebook. While it won't grant a boost die to Mechanics checks the way that a full tool kit probably would, it's only a 100 credits, Encumbrance 0 (making it quite portable), and would counter a single setback die that was applied for not having the proper tools. It could also function as a small/light improvised weapon to reflect the various sharp and pointy bits that are incorporated into the multitool.

Okay I think the problem here is not that the toolkit is to expensive, but rather that you and your player didn't bother to fully read the gear section.
Check out utility belt sometime, it's 25 credits, grants +1 Encumbrence threshold, and provides all the "basic tools" you need to perform a particular proffesion (such as mechanic or doctor, etc).
The toolkit is more heavy duty, it's your "on base" kit, not the field kit you lug around and my own interpretation of rules concerning when to apply boost dice made me grant my mechanics +1 boost for mechanics checks if they had it since it's the heavy duty kit where as the cheaper utility belt is the very basic kit (ie able to perform the check without increasing the difficulty as you normally do for having insufficient equipment.)

Anyways it's your game but I wouldn't have simply given a player a free expensive kit. After all, they'd still be fully capable of performing mechanic checks without one (as the raw stats with +1 difficulty) and in the end the mechanic is not a fighter. They can fight sure, but granting them their kit and a weapon just makes them get much more gear wise than a bounty hunter or hired gun and that hardly seems fair to players that choose that route and have the advantage of vesting more of their money into offense/defense to represent their more combat oriented class choice.
One side note a player without a gun or weapon doesn't have to just sit out of combat doing nothing. They can punch, kick, throw bar stools, grapple, assist, etc. Be creative, it's the entire purpose of the system.

Okay I think the problem here is not that the toolkit is to expensive, but rather that you and your player didn't bother to fully read the gear section.

Check out utility belt sometime, it's 25 credits, grants +1 Encumbrence threshold, and provides all the "basic tools" you need to perform a particular proffesion (such as mechanic or doctor, etc).

Yeah, I did bother to read it.

I read your post and then picked up the book and read it again. You are wrong.

Perhaps you should bother reading it again?

_{Personally, I don't see the Star Wars universe being about gear and loot at all. At no time do any of the characters in the 3 (oh, ok, six) films stop to loot someone for creds, or check if they had a better weapon. Chewie never grabs a couple of spanners from the Death Star tool cabinet because they'll help him upgrade his toolkit. Luke doesn't put on Storm Trooper armour to give him extra protection, he does it as a disguise.}

_{For this reason, I think the game's focus on equipment is actually a false representation of the genre. And that includes listing all that cyberware that acts as a massive incentive for PCs to borg up, despite none of the main protagonists of the films having anything of the sort. For me, characters get whatever equipment they need for the skills they've chosen. Cyberware is out entirely (although I guess I might link it to allowing PCs to spend XP on raising characteristics). And I'm not especially keen on an extensive weapon list, when there's no evidence from the films that weapon choice is anything other than an affectation - Han uses a "heavy" blaster pistol because it suits his look; Leia uses a hold out blaster because it suits her; but there's certainly nothing in the films that suggests Leia should upgrade if she wants to do more damage, because they both took out their enemies pretty equally well.}

_{I understand that EotE is about a grittier, seedier underbelly, and worrying about where the next cred comes from definitely has a place in this genre. But that's the next cred to pay for debts, food, lodging and fuel; not scrimping and saving to upgrade a weapon or buy a bigger medkit.}

The book description of a tool kit is a massive set of equipment, it inculdes 'basic hammers, hydrospanner wrenches, restraining bolts, power coupling scrubbers, fusion cutters, laser and sonic welders, replacement wiring and components, power calibrators, and of course welding goggles and heavy gloves are all standard components.' It weighs 4 ENC , the fact that it is as cheap as 350 credits surprises me. This is not something that is as small as a mechanics toolbox, but something that nearly completely fills a backpack. Think of something that size but mostly made of metal. However in the SW universe it is probably not as heavy, it is however as bulky. That is a lot of equipment for 350 credits IMO.

They can be used to fix anything from a droid to a starship.

The utility belt however does say that a 'ship mechanic might have his stuffed with his favourite tools'. Which indicates that it could be used to carry a subset of the full kit as described in the tool kit description.

The book description of a tool kit is a massive set of equipment, it inculdes 'basic hammers, hydrospanner wrenches, restraining bolts, power coupling scrubbers, fusion cutters, laser and sonic welders, replacement wiring and components, power calibrators, and of course welding goggles and heavy gloves are all standard components.' It weighs 4 ENC , the fact that it is as cheap as 350 credits surprises me. This is not something that is as small as a mechanics toolbox, but something that nearly completely fills a backpack. Think of something that size but mostly made of metal. However in the SW universe it is probably not as heavy, it is however as bulky. That is a lot of equipment for 350 credits IMO.

They can be used to fix anything from a droid to a starship.

The utility belt however does say that a 'ship mechanic might have his stuffed with his favourite tools'. Which indicates that it could be used to carry a subset of the full kit as described in the tool kit description.

I did have a bit of a change of heart since starting the thread to be honest! Having read some of the thoughtful posts that were at odds with my initital point I now believe the toolkit not to be overpriced really. In the case of a human type character I would have adviced him/her to take a utility belt as well in order to carry some of his favourite tools with him/her without overencumbering him/herself.

But, as my player plays an astromech, I decided that all the tools are built in to his droid.

Phild: the reason there is variation in equipment is that having one set of generic blaster stats to go with every possible model of blaster is boring as all hell. Blaster strength doesn't deviate greatly, all blasters are typically capable of killing a minion in one hit. The difference is in the details, firing modes, concealability, range, customization, etc.

Also, no cyber? Dark Vader has multiple cybernetic components. Luke has a cybernetic hand. And cybernetic components can also be used to model upgrades for droids instead of replacing organic parts on organics.

The characters in the movie do stop to loot a couple times. They loot stormtrooper blasters. And, frankly, you're reading the films way too much into a game. Players loot. It happens. So it doesn't occur much in the movies. Why does that matter?

Syrath: At a baseline, a utility belt does not contain the "right tools for the job" to make Mechanics checks. Now if you buy a tool kit and bring some of the tools along with you in the belt, you might just not have the "right tool for the job" anyway because you didn't bring the whole kit. Just depends on how close to the letter of the rules the GM wants to follow. The only mechanical effect of the utility belt is increased encumbrance, after all. What surprises me more than anything is how the cheapest blaster is barely less expensive than a set of slicing tools (or just half the cost of top-of-the-line illegal slicing tools) or a full set of repair tools, when blaster technology is ancient and ubiquitous. 350 seems reasonable for a baseline tooklit for a Mechanic to do their job. 400 for a tiny blaster is overpriced.

It's not that big a deal to me. I took 5 points of obligation on my Assassin so I could start with some better equipment, but at least 2 of the players in our party (doctor and politico) didn't, and things turned out ok. They started out with puny and/or no weapons, but guns start coming in pretty fast.

For the first fight you might be unarmed, but once you've killed a few thugs and taken their weapons you're good to go. Guns are not rare in the Star Wars universe. Your characters will find one fast.