I think 500 credits for "stuff you personally own" is fitting for most AoR campaigns. I agree that it's not a lot of money... but that's kinda the point that FFG seems to be trying to make, both here and in Edge of the Empire.

In EotE, the PCs are 'fringe-types' that are scraping by for the most part, though they're usually lucky enough to have a decent ship that they can call their own. Some might have a few more goods, but there are strings attached.

in AoR, the PCs are "green recruits," most of them having recently joined the Rebellion what what little they could carry on their person. Anything else would be assigned on a "per mission" basis by their superiors, and may not always be available... unless the PCs have managed to set up their own base of operations, in which case they've got considerably more resources at their immediate disposal.

On that note, some rules/guidelines to cover requisitioning gear from the Alliance for those "per mission" cases isn't a bad idea. Galaxy at War for Saga Edition had a pretty decent system that used group level and military rank, so I could see a similar concept being put into place for AoR. Perhaps just a straight credit amount times the party's contribution rank, with a Negotiation roll to try and convince the local quartermaster to supply a bit more, with each success providing an extra percentage's worth of gear... but done with the caveat/understanding that anything not lost or destroyed is returned at the end of the mission.

During the EotE Beta, I voiced the opinion that only 500 for starting credits almost forced a number of PCs to take extra Obligation, particularly those PCs whose character concept revolved around higher-end gear, such as a slicer or a well-armed bounty hunter or a gambler/scoundrel with a small stash of "liquid funds" and a reliable blaster for when things failed to go smooth. But as noted before, the design team's vision for starting PCs seems to be "strapped for cash" and not be walking arsenals.

In a few one-shot games, I've allowed the PCs to start with 1000 credits for starting gear, with the idea being that I'd be lessening the feeling that the players had to take extra Obligation just to be able to start with what they felt was "concept appropriate" equipment, or that they had to choose between said gear and the chance to get a few extra XP. I got yelled at by a few posters about "not following the spirit of the game" by not wanting the PCs to quite so strapped for funds, even though I suggested adding a sidebar to advise/encourage GMs to double or even triple the amount of staring credits a PC got if they felt the campaign warranted such a thing. Maybe that sidebar idea could work for Age of Rebellion, where aside from one background option that the entire party has to agree to, there isn't a way to start with extra money.

This issue is that 500 credits isn't "strapped for cash" its "too poor to buy the cheapest blaster if I buy the tools necessary to do my job".

And the concept that you get issued what you need makes sense, but unless its being constantly being taken away and reissued, which makes no real sense for at the very least a personal sidearm, there is no real reason for it not to be just considered personal gear.

I would rather there be a grouping of stuff that is just generally issued, and anything beyond that comes and goes. And the general issued stuff shouldn't be taken away from the character unless its necessary for them NOT to have it during a mission (such as not taking weapons into highly regulated areas). And with it being treated that way, it might as well be considered personal gear.

A few things to consider in Age of Rebellion: maxing out duty can get you gear.

It can also put you several hundred points behind... 30-40 points not spent on attributes is 75 points of experience to make up that difference, and each att point you don't take is at least 85 more.

Attributes are the single most important thing in terms of both capability and flexibility of characters - more so even than in WEG. And, with 5 to 15 points fewer than in Edge, they're that much more important not to lose them.

in AoR, the PCs are "green recruits," most of them having recently joined the Rebellion what what little they could carry on their person. Anything else would be assigned on a "per mission" basis by their superiors, and may not always be available... unless the PCs have managed to set up their own base of operations, in which case they've got considerably more resources at their immediate disposal.

No, they aren't. A green recruit would likely not even have rank 3 attribute and rank 1 skills in key areas (like so many of NPC templates), while starting PC's are usually (if not math-inept) Att 4 and skill 2, or several atts at 3's and skill 2.

They're clearly a cut above even the competent - elite stormtroopers are only Att 4 skill 2...and amongst the better shots around (when they want to hit).

No, they aren't. A green recruit would likely not even have rank 3 attribute and rank 1 skills in key areas (like so many of NPC templates), while starting PC's are usually (if not math-inept) Att 4 and skill 2, or several atts at 3's and skill 2.

They're clearly a cut above even the competent - elite stormtroopers are only Att 4 skill 2...and amongst the better shots around (when they want to hit).

I see your argument, but I feel you are confusing "green recruit" with "Inexperienced". It's a safe assumption that your hero PCs would have had experience in their skills before even joining the Rebellion (or the empire as the case may be). It might even be they went through some sort of training regimen. Certainly if I was just a gun enthusiast that was never taught how to shoot by a professional, I might have less "ranks" than someone with specialized training (all anecdotal evidence aside).

I love the idea of a starting package. Something like, "You can have 500 credits or you can start with one of these packages". Each package would be some gear related to a certain specialization. For the more non-combat types, a light blaster pistol, 1-2 stimpacks, and a toolkit/slicer gear/emergency medpack/etc.. For the heavies, maybe a rifle, 2-3 stimpacks, and so on. If i do a pure AoR game, this might be the direction I go in. This could certainly represent your standard issue "right out of the academy" gear.

This issue is that 500 credits isn't "strapped for cash" its "too poor to buy the cheapest blaster if I buy the tools necessary to do my job".

And the concept that you get issued what you need makes sense, but unless its being constantly being taken away and reissued, which makes no real sense for at the very least a personal sidearm, there is no real reason for it not to be just considered personal gear.

I would rather there be a grouping of stuff that is just generally issued, and anything beyond that comes and goes. And the general issued stuff shouldn't be taken away from the character unless its necessary for them NOT to have it during a mission (such as not taking weapons into highly regulated areas). And with it being treated that way, it might as well be considered personal gear.

That's kinda like 40k Deathwatch: each Space Marine character has a baseline kit consisting (in that game) of a knife, pistol, other weapon, armor, and 6 grenades. Specialists have different additions or subtractions to this kit, i.e. the Devastator has a very big gun, the Apothecary has a very useful medical tool, the Librarian has a weapon that can channel his psychic power, etc.

Then for every mission you have X amount of Requisition per person to take other gear (anything from other guns or mines to specialty communications gear to bulkhead-ripping shears). The cap on that is your Renown (basically a measure of rank and privilege) with the fancier items having a minimum Renown threshold.

This seems like it'd make sense in a military game like AoR. You have your basic, personal kit plus whatever extra stuff the Alliance thinks you need to do the job. As the Alliance is a lot more strapped for cash and gear than the Deathwatch is, I'd doubt they'd have the same depth of resource sunless it's a critical mission where they pull out all the stops, e.g. the commando attack on Endor's shield generator.

Or the Episode IV Death Star trench run...

I'm thinking on a more personal level, after all, your whole PC group can start out as a starfighter squadron. I'm unsure proven undercover commandoes would just be given fighters to pilot instead of being assigned to a different task.

My problem with AoR PC funds aren't the starting credits so much as the ambiguity of gaining additional resources, whether supplied 'for the mission' or from Duty rank rewards. As mentioned, it would be very handy if there were fixed guidelines in the final book. I might like seeing career or mission type equipment packages as a part of this.

Even then, I think Duty isn't handed out regularly enough by default (assuming there's even an default guideline) and the rewards are too infrequent and too undefined. If the party gains 10 Duty per mission, you're looking at 10 sessions before they get any shipment of equipment to call their own. I can't see running a game that long without a major change in gear and I'd rather have Duty provide rewards or be somehow spent to a limited degree every 2-3 sessions. Again, some monetary guidelines would really help, I don't appreciate the book's running theme of pretending credits aren't a resource with a mechanical impact on progress and is purely up to personal unguided preference.

I recall obligation being very vague in the EotE beta. I will be very surprised if we don't see a more detailed explanation on Duty once the final product is released.

My problem with AoR PC funds aren't the starting credits so much as the ambiguity of gaining additional resources, whether supplied 'for the mission' or from Duty rank rewards. As mentioned, it would be very handy if there were fixed guidelines in the final book. I might like seeing career or mission type equipment packages as a part of this.

Even then, I think Duty isn't handed out regularly enough by default (assuming there's even an default guideline) and the rewards are too infrequent and too undefined. If the party gains 10 Duty per mission, you're looking at 10 sessions before they get any shipment of equipment to call their own. I can't see running a game that long without a major change in gear and I'd rather have Duty provide rewards or be somehow spent to a limited degree every 2-3 sessions. Again, some monetary guidelines would really help, I don't appreciate the book's running theme of pretending credits aren't a resource with a mechanical impact on progress and is purely up to personal unguided preference.

The default guideline is that each player earns between 1-10 Duty per session. If we assume a party size of six gets an average of 5 points, that's 30 from one session. Then it'll be about three or four sessions to rank up.

In so far as starting out with a group of starfighters, bear in mind it's one outdated and aging ship design per two party members.

Kaosoe is right in that "green" doesn't equate to "inexperienced" in this case. The PCs are new recruits to the Rebel Alliance, and have presumably already proved they're better than the average person, enough so to be granted a certain degree of extra resources by the Alliance, be it in the form of second-hand aging starfighters or an Imperial shuttle that's (hopefully) got all the proper security clearances so that the PCs aren't shot on sight. Or perhaps they've been put in charge of a supply cache on a specific system and given the general assignment of "cause as much havoc for the local Imperial presence as you can without getting yourselves or innocent civilians killed."

WEG's Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim (probably one of the best sourcebooks that WEG produced for SWd6) introduces the concept of "Special Mission Groups" which are in effect a group of PCs with a broad variety of skills to draw from, too broad to really have them fit anywhere else in the Alliance military. So instead of trying to force them into a conventional military role, a group of such individuals are put together as a "Mission Group" and simply handed assignments from superiors in Alliance Command to go deal with a wide and varying assortment of missions.

Again, it seems part of FFG's design intent is that the PCs already begin the game as being one of these Mission Groups, having joined the Rebellion as a pre-existing group or being lumped together by the Alliance brass, sort of how Wraith Squadron was formed (Wedge hand-selected the squadron members for his little experiment, being sure to include folks that could actually hack it as starfighter pilots).

Revanchist7,

I think you're being a tad too generous with the estimated Duty award, but without some sort of guideline as to what level of service equates to a give value, it's hard to tell what the "average award" would be. Personally, I'm inclined to figure the party as a whole gains 10 points a session (assuming about 4 players, which seems to be about the norm from what I'm seeing), with not everyone getting a Duty award (some Duties simply may not come into play during a given adventure).

But as an adventure would seem to take about two 4-hour sessions, it'd probably be between 3 to 5 adventures that a party's Contribution Rank would increase.

Looks like I read it wrong, I wasn't considering that Duty rewards are directly tied to characters working towards their Duty.

I don't know. I find it difficult to get worked up about something which is usually resolved after the first encounter considering the pillaging that many player characters do. To each their own though. I say just give them more credits if you feel it isn't enough. Or offer the option of taking Obligation. In my experience, starting funds mean little after the games starts.

I don't know. I find it difficult to get worked up about something which is usually resolved after the first encounter considering the pillaging that many player characters do. To each their own though. I say just give them more credits if you feel it isn't enough. Or offer the option of taking Obligation. In my experience, starting funds mean little after the games starts.

And for the people who do the "well, its not like you can't have a blaster rifle after the first few encounters you have" people: Then why make it so starting characters are so restricted from the possibility of owning one.

And I doubt anyone is getting worked up, we just think the rule is a bit silly. And you know? This is a place for trying to make the rules better, so why shouldn't we go ahead and state that we find it a bit silly.

But no, let's invent a strawman that somehow people who are discussing this are incapable of houseruling for our own games, and make us out to be "getting worked up about it" like some rules lawyers rather than just maybe suggesting that the rules, which are still in development, might need a little more looking at.

I was pretty sure the point of the beta was to discuss how the rules could be improved.

And I doubt anyone is getting worked up, we just think the rule is a bit silly. And you know? This is a place for trying to make the rules better, so why shouldn't we go ahead and state that we find it a bit silly.

I was pretty sure the point of the beta was to discuss how the rules could be improved.

I don't know. Seems to me that some are worked up if they think it is silly. And you're right, this is the place to voice those concerns. So I will also voice my opinion that I think that it is a silly thing to be concerned about. A non-issue as far as I am concerned. And they should know that there are people like me just as much as you. Maybe they will do something, maybe not.

"Mouthy" should be replaced by "downright rude."

What an arrogant ass...

I don't know. Seems to me that some are worked up if they think it is silly. And you're right, this is the place to voice those concerns. So I will also voice my opinion that I think that it is a silly thing to be concerned about. A non-issue as far as I am concerned. And they should know that there are people like me just as much as you. Maybe they will do something, maybe not.

And I doubt anyone is getting worked up, we just think the rule is a bit silly. And you know? This is a place for trying to make the rules better, so why shouldn't we go ahead and state that we find it a bit silly.

I was pretty sure the point of the beta was to discuss how the rules could be improved.

There does need to be guidelines in place to start the game though. As mentioned above, if it's not going to matter "after the first encounter", why worry about the level at all? Give players a base of 1,500c to start with. Or nothing at all. Or a kit. But the idea of the rules is to help with character creation. So, rather than getting "worked up", we're trying to discuss options.

I'd be in favour of the "standardised kit" idea. It would be interesting to put together (I'm amidst study assessments at the moment, or else I'd put it together myself!).

There does need to be guidelines in place to start the game though.

There is a guideline, 500 cr. Some people are fine with it, others are not. The 500 cr were a choice for whatever reason. Now this might change due to discussions and I'm fine with that. But I am also fine with the way it is right now. The OP asked "Is 500c enough starting money?" and I say yes it is.

I am the OP. And thank you for answering the question! Although if your answer is 'Yes it is because we'll loot the dead storm troopers anyways', that is cause for concern!

I am the OP. And thank you for answering the question! Although if your answer is 'Yes it is because we'll loot the dead storm troopers anyways', that is cause for concern!

I'm not going to re-iterate what other have said, like the fact that this is what these people bring to the Alliance and such. It has already been said. Some people feel they should have more. That's fine, even if I don't agree with it. And there are options for getting more, such as taking the base option or integrating the Obligation mechanic.

I see it as trivial, but that goes both ways. One group sees it as trivial so why change it since after gameplay starts it won't matter anymore. The other group says if it is trivial then put it in the rules that you can start with more creds, it won't matter after gameplay starts. The guideline is what it is. I don't see it as unfair or a hindrance to play.

OK I have thought about some basic starting packages and have as a starting thouight:

PILOT:

Flight Suit - Soak 1, Vacuum sealed.

Helmet would have a short range comm unit and HUD linked into the ships comms and data

Hold out Blaster

TANKER:

Uniform - Soak 1

Helmet - Short Range comms linked to tank intercom / commander would link to complete unit and have a HUD too

Blaster Pistol

Macrobinoculars and Datapad - Commander only

2 Stimpacks in "glovebox"

INFANTRY:

Uniform - Heavy Clothing - Soak 1

In high risk situations this would be upgraded to Padded Armour - Soak 2

In special environments the soldier would be equipped with appropriate hazard suits

Most troops would be given a blaster or a blaster rifle with the correct training

1 Soldier from each section/squad would be upgraded to have a Light Repeating Blaster

Each solder would have a handheld short range comm unit or mic in his headgear

The section/squad commander would have a long range comm unit, macrobinoculars and datapad

Each soldier would have a stimpack

A first aid officer would have +2 stimpacks (3 total)

Each soldier would have a binder, smoke grenade and frag

Should they be planning to spend a lengthy time away from their base of operations they may be given:

Backpack, food for a suitable length of time

Water 2l per day

Tent

2+ reloads

COMMANDO/SPECIAL FORCES:

As infantry but may add:

Breath Mask

Thermal Cloak

Climbing Gear

2 Glow rods

NAVAL (Space and Water):

As pilot but Heavy Clothing

Security Officer may upgrade this to Padded Armour

ENGINEERS:

As Soldiers but add

They would not be given an extensive tool kit, maybe a multi-tool or some simple pouch with a few key devices and tools

They would have access to a full workshop at the base of operations

SHARPSHOOTER:

As soldiers but add

Blaster Rifle with Optic Sights

CIVILIAN ADVISERS:

Padded armour / Heavy Clothing as appropriate to the risk expected

Blaster Pistol

Hand held comms

Depending on the role they are filling they may have addition specialised equipment.

I think starting packages really fits with the military theme of the game.

But I also think that 500 is suitable.

The problem I see with the gear packages is that based on what "role" you choose, you stand a chance of making out like a bandit in terms of starting gear, especially the Special Forces package.

Honestly, it'd be simpler to just increase the starting pool of credits that everyone gets (especially if they chose something other than "Established Base" for their Rebellion Resource) and let the PCs select the gear that suits their character from there.

To say nothing of the time-honored military tradition of "resource acquisition" once the campaign begins. Need a blaster rifle with some extra reloads? Take them off one of the stormtroopers the group just took out. Or stage a raid on an Imperial supply depot/cache, and keep a few choice items for yourselves while the rest gets donated to the Alliance (and also helps earn the PC with the Duty: Resource Acquisition earn a few bonus points for doing their part for the cause. Just be sure to draw a line in your role as the GM, particularly if your PCs want to try and strip every stormtrooper they run across down to their skivvies in the course of a mission; easy way to do this is to strictly enforce the Encumbrance rules; stormtrooper armor is heavy when it's not worn, and carrying several bandoliers of grenades is gonna make it hard to do much without a bunch of explosive devices not constantly getting in your way.

I do like the idea of a starting gear package; however, I also like that both EotE and AoR are compatible right now. If you change the character creation rules to AoR players getting gear instead of credits, you might run into an issue where the games are now "almost compatible."

I could see a system working where, if the PCs have purchased Duty with their starting XP , they have the option of requisitioning a standard-issue gear package instead of taking their 500 credits in starting gear. Items in here might easily have the inferior quality or be sub-par in some other way (to reflect the ragtag condition of the Rebel Alliance), but they would get the job done.

I think EotE should have starting packages as well. I don't assume an EotE slicer is a brand-new kid who decided to hack; I view him as a paraprofessional at worst, a professional data thief at best. So he probably should start with the tools to do his job, not have to decide between being able to slice at all or taking Obligation to afford "tools for the job," a gun, and a single lousy point of soak.