I posted this in "Battle Reports" by mistake. Anyway, here it goes.

In ascending points, we have

"Dutch" Vander

Blaster Turret
R5-K6
[29]

Tycho Celchu

Squad Leader
Homing Missiles

[33]

Ibtisam

Daredevil

Advanced Sensors

Engine Upgrade

[38]

So, what I have here is 3 ships that do not particularly care about their opponent's positioning.

"Dutch" Vander's turret has a 360* firing arc, and can work with Tycho to use it and his native Target Lock ability until R5-K6 pulls his weight to get them ahead of the curve.

Tycho Celchu, picking up an early Target Lock from "Dutch" will be able to launch his Homing Missiles with very little issue, and the fact that taking a red maneuver only prevents him from taking another red maneuver means little is lost for him. His only whites are the 1 turns and the 3 turns and banks, so the stress token will not survive long regardless. On turns where "Dutch" doesn't need the Squad Leader bonus, he can use any of 4 native actions for his own effectiveness, or push Ibtisam to insane heights.

Ibtisam's build makes her even more stupidly mobile than the vaunted Fettigator. Advanced sensors gives her the ability to turn a 2 turn into a cloud of possibilities, be it simple positioning adjustment from the barrel-roll and (forward) boost options, to a 180* directional range from the Daredevil and (bank) boost actions. Couple this with her ability to (bank) boost prior to a 2 Koiogran, or her options to do any of her mobility actions in their traditional places, and her firing arc can cover any ship you wish it to. Moreover, if she's got a green maneuver on that dial, she can Daredevil first, and clear the stress she just earned, allowing for a free boost or barrel roll action from Tycho! The only way that my opponent will have any idea of where she will land is if they move after she does.

Thoughts?

Another option, maximizing that possibility-cloud B-Wing idea:

Rebel Operative

Ion Turret

[21]

Ibtisam

Engine Upgrades

Advanced Sensors

Daredevil

[38]

Ten Numb

Engine Upgrades

Advanced Sensors

Daredevil

[41]

I like it. Although I tend to not use squad leader too often because...well. No good reason I guess. I might trade tycho for a cheap x wing for a little extra firepower, add a hlc to ibtisam and switch dutch's to an ion cannon. Yes it puts a lot of eggs into one basket, but it is such a maneuverable, unpredictable, and hit point heavy basket.

Edit: the second one looks more like my cup of tea.

Yes it puts a lot of eggs into one basket, but it is such a maneuverable, unpredictable, and hit point heavy basket.

This is, officially, my favorite comment on this entire forum thus far.

"Put all your eggs in one basket, and WATCH THAT BASKET!"

~Mark Twain

The issue with your first list is that it IS a lot of points tied up in essentially 1 agility ships. I don't think that R5-K6 is entirely worth it, and you'll need to Focus in order to use the Blaster Turret, which will be hard if you fail to reachieve a lock with R5-K6. You also might want to Focus in order to avoid incoming damage.

I also don't think Squad Leader on Tycho is worth it, even 3 agility isn't enough to save him unless he has a focus or evade. He really draws the hate and without a Biggs or something to escort him I think he'll be killed unless you really try to stay out of the firing arcs of the enemy.

I think that the principle of Ibtisam is interesting but I think it's really expensive way to avoid asteroids and enemy ships. It doesn't have the extra agility dice the Firespray-31 has and I think that for all of it's maneuverability it'll still likely suffer from concentrated fire. Furthermore at PS 6 it still puts it behind or at least equal to a large portion of unique Imperial pilots, where your Squad will likely not have initiative and outnumber you.

That would be my thoughts on it, I'd be interested to see how it plays so I'll run it against my 'Black Squadron' to test my theory.

The issue with your first list is that it IS a lot of points tied up in essentially 1 agility ships. I don't think that R5-K6 is entirely worth it, and you'll need to Focus in order to use the Blaster Turret, which will be hard if you fail to reachieve a lock with R5-K6. You also might want to Focus in order to avoid incoming damage.

I also don't think Squad Leader on Tycho is worth it, even 3 agility isn't enough to save him unless he has a focus or evade. He really draws the hate and without a Biggs or something to escort him I think he'll be killed unless you really try to stay out of the firing arcs of the enemy.

I think that the principle of Ibtisam is interesting but I think it's really expensive way to avoid asteroids and enemy ships. It doesn't have the extra agility dice the Firespray-31 has and I think that for all of it's maneuverability it'll still likely suffer from concentrated fire. Furthermore at PS 6 it still puts it behind or at least equal to a large portion of unique Imperial pilots, where your Squad will likely not have initiative and outnumber you.

That would be my thoughts on it, I'd be interested to see how it plays so I'll run it against my 'Black Squadron' to test my theory.

Why not lose Tycho and get Garven. Garven and Dutch... Oldest trick in the box for moar tokenz!

Even better, take Kyle Katarn, so you would have another turret weapon of your choice, and not care about enemy positioning. That way you could also lose R5-K6. You give Dutch a focus and in return he can TL each turn. The one thing this does not allow is barrel rolling or boosting ibti a second time after moving... But hey even then you will keep your enemy guessing!

I think Ibtisam is a bit gimmicky, beside the unpredictable movement she doesn't really add anything an X-Wing wouldn't. Without the special weapons or Jammer or what have you I do find it hard to justify it. I'm not hating on B-Wings, I think they are great, but outside of the "Move anywhere, anytime" intent it's just a ton of points.

Yeah okay, but that is exactly the point about them. They are in fact not more durable than an X-Wing who just has better defense.

They have better movement options than an X-Wing for close quarter fighting, although stress is an

Issue. Their othr strength is the weapon options, and in this list there are none being taken. So its all about movement, but i don't think this is a bad thing actually.

There seems to be a lot of animosity towards using Tycho with squad leader. One could substitute Tycho with a Green Sq. Pilot and work at keeping the stress down when the squad leader card would be effective. It would be cheaper and the A wing would be less of a high profile target.

I like the squad as is. My personal preference would be to drop R5-K6 and the Blaster Turret and get a standard R5 unit and an Ion Turret, but that is just me as Ion Turret and Y-Wing = awesome for me :-)

As you have it though, the list is pretty fierce.

Love to hear how it flies.

Yeah okay, but that is exactly the point about them. They are in fact not more durable than an X-Wing who just has better defense.

They have better movement options than an X-Wing for close quarter fighting, although stress is an

Issue. Their othr strength is the weapon options, and in this list there are none being taken. So its all about movement, but i don't think this is a bad thing actually.

It's a fair point. It is more durable at the cost of increased vulnerability I do agree with you in regards to the low speed movement too. I think the overall package is more flexible than the X-W due to the upgrades, but conversely I think the role which the B-W fills in this case could also be filled by an X-W.

There seems to be a lot of animosity towards using Tycho with squad leader. One could substitute Tycho with a Green Sq. Pilot and work at keeping the stress down when the squad leader card would be effective. It would be cheaper and the A wing would be less of a high profile target.

I migjt have missed something but a green squad pilot woyld have a pilot skill too low to pass an action

Squad Leader only works on ships lower level than you. If I want to get a free action on Ibtisam (literally the entire point of the fleet), I could choose from Tycho, Wedge, Luke, Jan, Ten, Han, and Lando. Lando would have been a pretty good choice, if I could finangle a third ship into the mix, but I don't think I had the points for that.

I've done the spacial math:

Assuming that Barrel-Rolling can be considered as 6 potential locations (directly to one side, pushed as far forward on that side as possible, and pushed as far backwards on that side as possible), there are 23 possible maneuvers for EVERY non-red maneuver with this kit. Some of their landing spots will overlap (e.g. boost forward before or after a forward movement will land in the same spot), but they will take different paths to get there, and therefore avoid collisions.

Moreover, there are 10 landing spots for every Red maneuver.

Amusingly, if you do a green maneuver after a Daredevil action, you clear the stress you've just created for yourself, giving you some insane horizontal whites.

I've done the spacial math:

Assuming that Barrel-Rolling can be considered as 6 potential locations (directly to one side, pushed as far forward on that side as possible, and pushed as far backwards on that side as possible), there are 23 possible maneuvers for EVERY non-red maneuver with this kit. Some of their landing spots will overlap (e.g. boost forward before or after a forward movement will land in the same spot), but they will take different paths to get there, and therefore avoid collisions.

Moreover, there are 10 landing spots for every Red maneuver.

Amusingly, if you do a green maneuver after a Daredevil action, you clear the stress you've just created for yourself, giving you some insane horizontal whites.

I'd tend to agree with some of the previous comments. I don't know how viable this squad would be on the board. Yes, on paper, it might seem cool to have a B-Wing out manuever it's opponents, but I thought the point was to kill the other guy not avoid him. The reason Fettigator works well is because of the rear-firing arcs. I find that if you don't have an HLC or Blaster Turret on a B-Wing it just becomes a tank which the opponent will save for last.

I've done the spacial math:

Assuming that Barrel-Rolling can be considered as 6 potential locations (directly to one side, pushed as far forward on that side as possible, and pushed as far backwards on that side as possible), there are 23 possible maneuvers for EVERY non-red maneuver with this kit. Some of their landing spots will overlap (e.g. boost forward before or after a forward movement will land in the same spot), but they will take different paths to get there, and therefore avoid collisions.

Moreover, there are 10 landing spots for every Red maneuver.

Amusingly, if you do a green maneuver after a Daredevil action, you clear the stress you've just created for yourself, giving you some insane horizontal whites.

I'd tend to agree with some of the previous comments. I don't know how viable this squad would be on the board. Yes, on paper, it might seem cool to have a B-Wing out manuever it's opponents, but I thought the point was to kill the other guy not avoid him. The reason Fettigator works well is because of the rear-firing arcs. I find that if you don't have an HLC or Blaster Turret on a B-Wing it just becomes a tank which the opponent will save for last.

I wouldn't maneuverability for defense. I would use it for the ability to consistently get in Range 1, out of my target's firing arc. Don't forget that Advanced Sensors means never having to lose your actions to a red maneuver, and that I can still Target Lock or Focus instead of doing a Boost/BarrelRoll/Daredevil before executing a Red.

An alternate execution of the fleet, for those who doubt its damage potential.

Ten Nunb

+ Advanced Sensors

+ Engine Upgrades

+ Daredevil

[41]

Garven Dreis

+ R2-D2

[30]

"Dutch" Vander

+ Blaster Turret

+ R5-K6

[29]

You do NOT want Initiative with this fleet, as you want to ensure your Hypermobility is well placed, and you also want to ensure your Target Locks get placed.
You can swap out Ibtisam for Ten Numb and put a Stealth Device on Garven if you want the B-Wing to be able to grab Garven's focus token, but with a Blaster Turret on "Dutch", he's going to be the likeliest recipient.

An alternate execution of the fleet, for those who doubt its damage potential.

Ten Nunb

+ Advanced Sensors

+ Engine Upgrades

+ Daredevil

[41]

Garven Dreis

+ R2-D2

[30]

"Dutch" Vander

+ Blaster Turret

+ R5-K6

[29]

You do NOT want Initiative with this fleet, as you want to ensure your Hypermobility is well placed, and you also want to ensure your Target Locks get placed.

You can swap out Ibtisam for Ten Numb and put a Stealth Device on Garven if you want the B-Wing to be able to grab Garven's focus token, but with a Blaster Turret on "Dutch", he's going to be the likeliest recipient.

I think that the issue with this build is that you are either going to sacrifice any mobility from Garven to he can stay close to Dutch Vander.

What is your set up plan? Will the B-W be placed on one side and the Y-W & X-W be placed on the other? Or will they be deployed in close proximity?

I think either way the B-W will either lose it's mobility or eventually get picked off, if you are using it's mobility then you aren't focusing or concentrating on damage, while is slightly mitigated by Ten Numb's pilot ability, off the bat it's a 1/8 chance which isn't reliable.

41 points is also a fair amount of points to sink into a ship without auxillary firing arcs or a turret.

People keep saying the having a maneuverable b wing is a gimmick. Other people say that the best defense is a good offense.

Well I say, the best defense is to be out of your opponent's firing arc when he wants to shoot you!

Tycho is probably my favorite rebel pilot to field. Not because he can blow things up, he only has two attack dice, so it doesn't really happen. He's my favorite because of the times my opponents with 5 or more ships on the board had gone "SERIOUSLY! He's not in range of anyone! Again!"

In this game, I've found that maneuverability (other than a 360 degree firing arc) is king. Why do we all hate...ahem. I mean love. Totally love soontir fel and his saber squadron?

i just dont understand blaster turret on dutch at all....

his job is to target lock every round, until he can get r5-k6 to proc he cant even fire 360 arc... because he wont have a focus action

I wouldnt rely on garven dries if he goes down, or they get split up the synergy falls hard on its face

maybe you would be better off with horton salm

To be quite honest, PTL is far better on Ibtisam than other EPS. Simply because doing a boost + Barrel Roll Always gets you into the perfect positioning.

I have been playing that build (Ibtis+Engine+PTL+Advanced Sensors) for the past 5 games or so and because of her extreme unpredictability and her more extreme ability to be in range 1 of ties while being outside their firing arc...it's really just ridiculous. She has only been destroyed last, as the imperials just can't get a shot on her. Her suffering is that unless she's moving after the enemy pilots, she doesn't exactly know where to go, and so suffers against elite pilots (7+).

On paper she seems excellent, but in game - she's even better. She's a tank who you can't hit, who will roll 4 attack (in the majority of situations) with a re-roll and often a focus. If anyone hasn't tried her with this build out, you should.