Hi Age of Rebellion beta testers!

We have posted the third news update for the Age of Rebellion beta. There won't be an update to the beta PDF this week because we are hard at work on some changes, but make sure to read through the weekly focus:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4440

Thank you, and keep your eyes peeled next week for the new changes.

Well, for a start Stormtroopers clearly need toning down a bit in light of the new information that has come out about them in relation to the Rebels show.

And lose the Imperial Army dudes.

Or we could ignore a kids show as the basis for an entire game and leave those stormtroopers as is, and let GMs adjust as befits their game. Just a suggestion.

Are you guys going to continue this on this thread too? Seriously?

Are you guys going to continue this on this thread too? Seriously?

Sorry. Just had to put the boot in.

I do think they could swap the Army dudes stats to stormtroopers and drop the Army dudes. Stormtroopers gonna be mooks in Rebels and all going forwards, and the game should reflect that. You want uber stormtroopers you can buff em yourself.

How about we just not make every topic about the same thing over and over.

How about we just not make every topic about the same thing over and over.

The OP says they want feedback on Adversaries this week! This seemed like a good place to bring it up.

I am wondering if the Snowtroopers need multi-optic sighted blaster rifles, anymore than sandtroopers would. The glare of the sun in a desert of sand isn't much less of a challenge than the glare of the sun on a planet of snow and ice. Just wondering really, but I'm not complaining.

I am impressed with the power levels of some of the speciality corp troopers, although I do like what I see. They will instil the right amount of fear in my players when introduced.

I'm missing the micro-proton torpedo launcher on the Spacetroopers though, I really am!

I am impressed with the power levels of some of the speciality corp troopers, although I do like what I see. They will instil the right amount of fear in my players when introduced.

I'm missing the micro-proton torpedo launcher on the Spacetroopers though, I really am!

I see how you GM... and how FFG is catering to your GMing.

The funny thing about the micro-proton torpedo is, I'm not sure if there were any weapons readily available to simply be called a micro-proton torpedo? Unfortunately the only idea that comes to mind is the equivalent of a grenade launcher, but that's nowhere near the power that "proton torpedo" (even micro) would imply... they might change that in a future splatbook though.

Gonna disagree completely with Erik about the role of stormtroopers and Imperial Army. I don't care about how things are being portrayed in a new show that post-dates the release of this beta. I like the option of choosing different statted tiers of adversaries and specialists. I like the variation in power levels of even minion-level cannon fodder. Nice to have a mock-up of specialists that have been play-tested instead of going for the same themes myself and maybe getting them too hard or too soft.

Sounds like it's a matter of expecting us to playtest the specialists though, both in and of themselves and in combination with other NPC adversaries...

Mostly I use stormtroopers as clone minions. Something for the PCs to shoot without feeling bad about it. Our Emergent/Marksman says a little prayer for their lost souls every time she headshots one. The 'Inglorious Bastards' cell doesn't even count stormtrooper kills any more than they count droids.

But as Kshatriya says, its' great to have differing levels of threats, and to surprise the players when they come up against specialist or competent stormtroopers, the actual elites.

And finally... DO WE HAVE TO TURN EVERY SINGLE FLIPPING THREAD INTO A DEBATE ABOUT SOME SHOW I'LL NEVER EVEN WATCH????

Don't feed or mind the Troll. Maybe it goes away.

Have to say I agree with Kshatriya & Maelora. Diversity is good, Uniformity is bad. At least in my oppinion but thats just me.

I see how you GM... and how FFG is catering to your GMing.

The funny thing about the micro-proton torpedo is, I'm not sure if there were any weapons readily available to simply be called a micro-proton torpedo? Unfortunately the only idea that comes to mind is the equivalent of a grenade launcher, but that's nowhere near the power that "proton torpedo" (even micro) would imply... they might change that in a future splatbook though.

Well looking at the darktrooper's gear I see plasma shell rifle, something along those lines could be cool. Damage 30-40, Breach 2, guided 1, Blast 20, inaccurate 2... Crit 3 or 4. Range: extreme/close. Blast range should also at least be short range when in personal combat, could also be more inaccurate in atmosphere...?

So, big changes, huh? Any guesses what those might be? Do we think that they might be changing so things that were set in EotE? Do we think they'll change the sets of species or careers/specilizations? Do we think that they'll scrap everything and go with the Dark Heresy 2.0 Beta Rules...?

I doubt major changes to the rules, or invalidating anything from Edge of the Empire. Most likely I can see changes to a few races, the duty mechanic and ship stats. They could also be adding in new things to test, maybe mass combat rules that people clamor for.

I doubt major changes to the rules, or invalidating anything from Edge of the Empire. Most likely I can see changes to a few races, the duty mechanic and ship stats. They could also be adding in new things to test, maybe mass combat rules that people clamor for.

I would suspect the mass combat rules are coming. Mine may soon be unnecessary.

I hope for mass combat and non-range-band movement options, and maybe a new race to swap out for the bothans.

I wonder if there any new species in the next two books like Togorians, Blood Carvers, Shistavanens, or a Verpine, perhaps. There's so many species in the galaxy I don't know where to begin. Any thoughts, anyone?

I hope for mass combat and non-range-band movement options, and maybe a new race to swap out for the bothans.

I don't think they will do a non-range-band movement option. It is too much rooted on the designers philosophy. Think that they already did it for Warhammer 3. But, you may want to check the Warhammer 3 forums. There a guy whose nickname is Gallows developed some house rules to play combats with a grid. You may use it as inspiration to design your own house rules to get rid of the range bands.

I hope for mass combat and non-range-band movement options, and maybe a new race to swap out for the bothans.

I don't think they will do a non-range-band movement option. It is too much rooted on the designers philosophy. Think that they already did it for Warhammer 3.

I've already done the math based upon the space movement rules. And sent it to them. I don't really give a **** about their philosophy - all I care about is a solid, playable game that covers the bases...

That said, it is a problem, and a big one, because they decided squadrons are a relevant level of play. Which means the party is split up into multiple ships, and (due to the X and Y wings being better than ties) are likely to often be up against superior numbers, and be screening something.

If the party has to screen unit A from fighters WXYZ and bombers U & V a bit behind them, and is in fighters BCDE, and A is capable of running... If UVWXYZ close on A, they should also close on BCDE - but the rules at present don't cover that. Likewise, if A opens the range, it should also be further from BCDE (relevant if they get KO'd because A has tractors)... With even just a 1 dimensional but evenly spaced grid, it suddenly gets much MUCH easier. When A moves away from the fighter group, it's still clear what all the ranges are. And if the bombers can get past the fighters. And whether C can shoot X who's on B's tail...

I've run a lot of games with abstract ranges - and it's fine so long as one side always stays together.

Even "breaking down to one-on-one's" fails because then you don't know whether C can shoot W when W is advantaged on B.

Rules exist to make things easier - and the abstraction does just the opposite for mass combats, be they ships or troops.

I hope for mass combat and non-range-band movement options, and maybe a new race to swap out for the bothans.

Well, you can hope for non-range-band movement options, but I wouldn't suggest holding your breath. Given that FFG is trying to keep this a narrative-based game instead of grid-based tactical combat game, they're probably going to leave movement as something nebulous so that GM's have ample room to fudge things if need be.

Remember that folks who post here and e-mail FFG are a vocal minority, and there quite a few complaints during the EotE Beta that FFG flat-out ignored because they felt they had a better grasp on the design of the game and how the mechanics worked than we did. Whether they're right or wrong is a matter of personal opinion. Maybe I've skipped a few of your posts, but the ones I recall seeing in regards to movement deals mostly with vehicle combat. I've not had the issues with vehicle combat and movement that you appear to, but I'll also admit that my experience with starship combat is fairly limited, maybe a half dozen combat encounters at most?

As for Bothans... they are pretty well-tied to the Alliance, particularly because of Mon Mothma's line in RotJ and then the EU fleshing that out, so again don't expect them to be replaced with some brand-new species, particularly if the comments from the lead designers in the past hold true about "wanting to hold back on some of the iconic races for later books" as per their guest stints on the Order 66 podcast. And it's pretty well proven that "new species = book sales," so I'd be really surprised if FFG "gave away" a brand new species as part of the Beta process. They certainly didn't change the species listing in EotE in spite of many requests/pleas by the beta-testers to include such notables as Duros or Sullustans.

@aramis

Well, indeed, from my experience with warhammer 3, when combat involves many characters (and different terrain features) the range band systems becomes a real pain to track. If you have to track all the relative positions from one character to the other when you have 10+ characters involved in a combat you are doomed.

Said that, since in space combat everything happens in close and short ranges, I don't think it is such a problem to track relative positions of a big group. But I haven't tried yet.

Also I don't understand what is the part that the range bands do not cover

@ Yepesnopes: In lieu of a more definite solution I'd actually treat shots from Medium or further out in space combat as being more akin to hazards that must be avoided than to regular attacks, but that's just me.

@aramis

Well, indeed, from my experience with warhammer 3, when combat involves many characters (and different terrain features) the range band systems becomes a real pain to track. If you have to track all the relative positions from one character to the other when you have 10+ characters involved in a combat you are doomed.

Said that, since in space combat everything happens in close and short ranges, I don't think it is such a problem to track relative positions of a big group. But I haven't tried yet.

Also I don't understand what is the part that the range bands do not cover

Most capital ships have medium range weapons, and quite a few have long range weapons.