Hey guys what is your interpretation of SoI colony system? How many colonies do you think a world could handle assuming the RT had the will and the PF to grow them all in the world?

Depends on the planet and its size. You could have one colony per continent for example - expecting they wont grow over the billions each in a short-medium turn around - but I guess that on the long term its counter productive to start multiple colonies in a single planet (as colonies tend to at some point take over the entire world).

true enough but as per rules a Size 10 colony is but a Hive City and we have many examples of planets with multiple Hive Cities. The continent guideline seems good but any other ideas?

I would probably go with one per territory as a guideline. You would of course need a good reason to add an additional colony to the same world but it would make sense for a Manufacturing colony to support a mining colony for example. I would have to believe though that at some point these multiple colonies will simply grow together and become an inhabited world.

Well if you have opposing adversaries on the planet, then there might be a colony belonging to each force on the planet. Like several native colonies, a colony owned by Chorda, a colony owned by the pcs, and then someone else. I think Lucins Breath (the planet with all the "oil") has varies mining colonies on it, and the pcs having more than one would be greatly beneficial for profit.

On a related question, we have established the concept of multiple colonies per region/continent. What would you say is a good limit on a planet/moon colony in the context of orbitals?

On a related question, we have established the concept of multiple colonies per region/continent. What would you say is a good limit on a planet/moon colony in the context of orbitals?

I would have to say considerably less. Orbitals or moon type colonies take tremendous resources to maintain and are rarely truly self sufficient. (An upcoming OW adventure touches on this very thing) As a general rule I would say one per occupied territory with a minimum of one being possible. If multiple orbitals exist they will probably be tied together to form a planetary defense network or orbital mining consortium. Other arrangements are possible but this is what pops to mind right now.

I look at a combination of biosphere and planet size. A Terra sized planet can support one Hive sized colony safely. If the planet is smaller or has a less habitable enviornment then Terra it may cap out at a size 9 or even smaller colony. If the planet is large, then 2-5 hive colonies are possible. A vast world can handle 10. If the players stay under the cap and are reasonable about how they treat the planetary enviornment I don't have it collapse on them. If they try to push it, then they end up having to spend PF on planetary/hive enviornmental equipment to keep the colony alive. As my players are playing the long game, they are careful to stay within the proscribed limits for biosphere stabilization in accordance with the ancient guidelines. They have also been known to buy up atmosphere and water processing equipment 'just in case'.

I also require the colony to cost more PF based on how survivable the enviornment is. A perfect colony is -1PF from the base cost in SoI. For each step off the axis I increase the cost by one. This represents the additional equipment needed to keep colonists alive and the colony going under adverse conditions. The categories are:

Normal Gravity

Moderate Atmosphere

Pure Atmosphere

Temperate Climate

Verdant Ecosystem

Some form of appropriate resources totaling at least 50

For each colony over the planets sustainable limit (all colonies pay at time of new colony formation)

Note that a moon colony would be extremely expensive. Based on our moon (sort of), there would be a +12 PF cost:

Low Gravity +1PF

No Atmosphere +4PF

Unstable Temperature +3PF

No Water +4PF

Assume some resources (why else form a colony?) +0PF

If colony size exceeds 6, +1PF

I prefer not to tell players that something is really impossible, as the technology available to them is rather potent. I just make it extemely expensive. Religious colony on the moon....um, sure...that will be 1d5+15 PF.

WilliamAsher, could I get a document with your guidelines how you run it in your game. That sounds like it is something I could use in my own game. When I ask for a document I mean a slightly more detailed level of defined values in addition to what you gave as an example.

Hmm...a lot of it is sort of scripted out in my head and manipulated to keep the game more realistic but interesting. As far as the starting cost, each step on the chart away from the ideal is +1 for each axis (ie. Tainted Atmosphere is +1PF, Frozen is +2 PF...). I also use 1 year instead of 90 days per cycle (I divide the resouce depeletion for colony usage by 4). As written a trip to Port Wander can take a year or more, and you colony could grown until it collapsed very easily.

I also roll a d10 for each year. On a 1 the colony rolls for a good event, on a 10 a bad one.

Ok, I guess that is a bunch of little things. I will see if I can pull something together when I get a chance. It might take a few days. I like the basic rules in SoI, but I really think that they didn't test them out with real players very well.

Well, I have written up my house rules as they apply to SoI colony rules. Colony development is a major part of our campaign, so my rules may be a little more in depth than you really need. I have expanded on some of the rules in SoI (Manufactorums, Shipyards, initial colony cost) as well as changed a number of others I thought were unwieldy or overly punishing (1 year cycle, colony growth, colony shrinkage, resource depletion). My players goal is to create a new sector of the Imperium that actually works, including forge worlds and major shipyards.

If anyone is intersted send me a message with your email. If there is an easier way to share it, feel free to let me know.

Google docs. As mentioned in my link below.

Um...I can't read it and for some reason it won't let me google translate. Also, google docs requires I put something on my computer and I am at work. ::shrug:: I guess I will look into it later

if you go to drive.google.com you should be able to use GoogleDrive straight from the internet without downloading anything.

If any link asks you to install something, don't. Go to the main website, like Asajev mentioned, to determine the issue.

Hopefully I have it set up right. Link is https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3V_7sJZLASUQWl3bnNkbDhHd3c&usp=sharing

I am working on fine tuning some additional ideas, including things like actual population vs colony size. An updated sheet may get uploaded when I work out the kinks. If there are any additional questions let me know.

Thanks William, I love your concepts and I think the shipyard upgrade is very cool. I would Imagine that it would be possible to extend the size of ship construction by saying that multiple shipyards are working on a single ship. So for example 16 Slips at 5 years / SP for a Battlecruiser + Hull STC and Build Permit, or 64 Slips at 25 years / SP for a Grand Cruiser + Hull STC and Build Permit. This would be the equivalent of the total output of 2 Hives for a single Battlecruiser or 8 Hives for a Grand Cruiser. I think this additions are fair for my game but I want your opinion since you were the one to design the house rules.

Hopefully I have it set up right. Link is https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3V_7sJZLASUQWl3bnNkbDhHd3c&usp=sharing

I am working on fine tuning some additional ideas, including things like actual population vs colony size. An updated sheet may get uploaded when I work out the kinks. If there are any additional questions let me know.

I see theft coming in my near future. Very nice! I would suggest that at the point where the colony can produce near unique and unique components there should be some serious limits. Could my Hive world arbitrarily produce a "Geneseed Genetorium"? that would mean I could form my own Space marine chapter! Just sayin...

I based ship construction time on that listed in various sources, especially BK. I did plan to add in that building a second shipyard upgrade would allow the building of larger ships and double the Slips available. It just didn't make it into the document. I would go with 2-3 years per SP for larger ships. That will give you a build time of about 2-3 centuries, which is consistant with the fluff I have found. As for slips, I would say 16 for Battlecruiser and up. Remember that you need 4 Upgrades to have two shipyards. I would probably go no higher than 24-32 for a Grand Cruiser, as you would need 6-8 Upgrades. I would also not allow more than two shipyard upgrades per colony. A size 10 colony is billions of people (5-10 for a typica hive colony), and having 4 upgrades means that 40% of the focus of the colony is on shipbuilding alone (4 out of 10 upgrades). That would keep Grand Cruiser construction to Forge Worlds and Hive Worlds that specialize in ship construction.

Ah, the 'I want to make Space Marines player'. That would be why I say that " If the GM desires he can limit this to those from the Rogue Trader book and those the players have obtained STCs for from other sources . ". The purchase and obtaining of STCs in my game is one of the things that the players use their PF for the most. I would highly recomend that the players be limited to the basics unless they go out and get the STCs. I have a document that lists every STC the players have obtained and which ones they can produce, but I like keeping track of that sort of stuff and my players enjoy pointing out that their ships all have Warpbane hulls crafted at their 'forgeworld'. My game is very much about building up their own sector from the ground up in the Expanse.

Feel free to use and abuse it. If you find any major holes point them out. Some of this has never been written down (was just floating in my head), so there may be some things that didn't make it into the document.

Hopefully I have it set up right. Link is https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3V_7sJZLASUQWl3bnNkbDhHd3c&usp=sharing

I am working on fine tuning some additional ideas, including things like actual population vs colony size. An updated sheet may get uploaded when I work out the kinks. If there are any additional questions let me know.

I see theft coming in my near future. Very nice! I would suggest that at the point where the colony can produce near unique and unique components there should be some serious limits. Could my Hive world arbitrarily produce a "Geneseed Genetorium"? that would mean I could form my own Space marine chapter! Just sayin...

This is my personal interpretation when it comes to Near-Unique and Unique Production. Having the theoretical capacity to produce it does not mean you can. I would rule that you would need to do an Epic Level Meta Endeavor to acquire the STC and specialized knowledge for production. When that is achieved you would only be able to produce 1d12 samples of the STC per year or 1 ship component at a rate of 1 year per SP. When it comes to Unique items you would be able to make 1 sample per year or 1 ship component at a rate of 5 years per SP. This would need a Legendary Endeavor to get the knowledge and permits for production. I would also rule the requirement of a dedicated Forge Colony in system to house the Adepts of Mars and the knowledge base for the production. 1 Forge Colony could house 1 Near-Unique STC / 2 Colony size or 1 Unique STC / 10 Colony Size.

This restrictions seem fair for my game and also introduces the increase dependency on the Adepts of Mars and the Priesthood as well as develop the colony system in a narrative fashion.

On another note William Asteroid Belts, what has been your ruling for asteroid belt colonies. 1 Colony per resource of 50+ points sound good to you as a rule of thumb? Taking Colony start up cost based on your work into account.

Also possible new Colony Upgrade:

Mechanicum Data Crypts

Allows to storage of STC Template Data at the Colony. It has a capacity of 50 Data Units. The size of an STC in Data Units is equal to the following numbers. Average (1), Scarce (2), Rare (10), Very Rare (20), Extremely Rare (30), Near-Unique (40), Unique (50).

Ah, the 'I want to make Space Marines player'. That would be why I say that " If the GM desires he can limit this to those from the Rogue Trader book and those the players have obtained STCs for from other sources . ". The purchase and obtaining of STCs in my game is one of the things that the players use their PF for the most. I would highly recomend that the players be limited to the basics unless they go out and get the STCs. I have a document that lists every STC the players have obtained and which ones they can produce, but I like keeping track of that sort of stuff and my players enjoy pointing out that their ships all have Warpbane hulls crafted at their 'forgeworld'. My game is very much about building up their own sector from the ground up in the Expanse.

Yeah, I did see that. My personal thought though was maybe an * or something that says that for this level of rarity the players MUST complete an endeavor to gain the requisite STC. I personally agree with Asajev's difficulty levels for this as these types of STC's have in fact mobilized ENTIRE Explorator fleets for their recovery! Imagine the player's faces when the Omnissiah's Victory and her associated battlefleet show up on your doorstep to "Inquire" about your new Unique grade STC! (Insert Music from Star wars: the imperial march here.)

How difficult STCs are to obtain varries quite a bit in my campaign. In general, any colony has access to every STC of Common or lower availability (exceptions made for regional items). If the colony has a Manufactorum, then it gains access to more common STCs used by that manufactorum. It is a judgement call on my end. Setting up a Manufactorum generaly includes getting the STCs that Manufactorum is going to use regularly (Those basics from the main Rogue Trader book that are not considered particularly rare). Purchasing STCs or Manufacturing Schematics (for non-STC items) is generally done through the Ad Mech (or whatever Heretek you are getting your non-STC pattern from). I set more common STC availability at 2-3 steps higher than the item produced. This can be modified by the level of rarity an item really has in the Imperium. It isn't really a hard and fast system, as I adjust based on a number of factors in my head. It does force the players to put effort into expanding their capabilities. That means that even a single Near Unique STC is going to require roleplaying and some creative use of contacts and skills to obtain. Other Extremely Rare STC might be relatively easy to obtain (Fury Starfighters are actually found throughout the sector, even though they are ER).

Specific examples include their courting of a Carnicula Magos on Lathe Het through granting him access to rare Xeno specimens and some Space Marine genetic material they recovered from an ancient Ork hulk they explored. They have managed to keep feeding him enough information and unusual material that he has helped them find 'creative' researchers and may eventually help them get access to the more exotic biotech. They have a number of contacts like that gained through roleplaying and use of xp (I use the Inquisitor's Handbook contact rules as a guide).

My players greatest achievement to date has been while trying to restore ancient Stasis Chamber STCs that have degraded since the High Fabricator of Belecane died centuries ago. They made a contact in a Hulking Stasis Chamber Manufactorum on Belecane whom they convinced to feed them information and potentially STCs in exchange for providing her resources and an escape route. They were highly pleased when she managed to smuggle them the STC information for Hulking Size Stasis Chambers while running from a political death (Burning her as a contact). They then provided her with researchers, major access in their research colony, lots of materials, and let her try to find misprints that had crept into the STCs over the millenia. After years of research she has managed to produce a Standard Quality Hulking Stasis Chamber STC (from the Poor one she brought and her research). They have since obtained Poor Quality Stasis Cask STC for her to do the same with. Their long term goal is to increase Humanities understanding of Stasis tech back to the level where they might acutally be able to maintain the Golden Throne. (NOTE: A Best Quality Beast Cage is a stasis chamber, and only a Rare aquisition.)

Sorry for the multiple posts. At work, so somewhat scattered. To answer Asajev's question about asteroid belts. I would allow colonization, but would note to the players that the cost of colonization is extremely high. My players look at asteroid belts as places to have endeavors, not colonies. If they did decide to build a colony there, I would charge them an additional PF over the normal rules due to size (asteroids are smaller than small). I would also probably charge them the 'too many colonies' PF for even the first colony. It is much more effective for them to colonize some other world in the system and then run endeavors based on that colony in the asteroid belt.

I would not suggest that you make STC data crypts a colony upgrade. A colony is limited to 1 Support Upgrade per size. that means that your Hive colony of 10 Billion souls can only have 10 upgrades. Realistically, a Forge World Colony (Industrial or Research Colony) is going to have between 2-4 Manufactorums, at least 1-2 Jurist (Arbites) Precint or Techsocist (Ecclesiastiary) College Upgrades to keep Piety and Order at a safe level (My explorators research colony has a Societal Shaping Matrix as a Cultural (Piety) Upgrade as well). Each of those upgrades represents 1 Billion people, or at least those of the 1 Billion who are not tied up running essential services. Most Forge Worlds are going to have to specialize, just due to the need to have a Manufactorum for each class of goods (Biotech and Chemicals, Cybernetics and Cogitators, Vehicles, Weapons and Armour, Voidship Components, and Voidship Shipyard). That is in addition to the possibilities of the Fabricator wanting private labs (Personal Residence Support Upgrade) or Explorator Docks in orbit. I see Support Upgrades as being focuses for your colony, not single structures. Yes, a forge world may have multiple colonies...but each of those colonies are going to be sections of the world devoted to different focuses.

If you do decide to go with your Data Crypt upgrades, you need to drastically increase storage. As written it would take two upgrades to be able to make both Fury Interceptors and Starhawk bombers (both ER vehicles). Those are both mass produced across the forgeworlds of the sector. I prefer to make unique STC storage part of the endeavors required to obtain the STC. After all, the Ad Mech isn't going to let you just stuff it in your closet. You have to satisfy them that it will be provided the upmost respect and protection. They may require that you can prove your purity and ability to defend such STCs, which may translate to having certain upgrades present in your colony. My players utilize advanced dataslates with holographic projection and armoured casings to store STCs. They then put them in Adamantine sleeves that seal against void, EM fields, and all liquids. These are then stored in underground vaults inside stasis fields with Servitor and Skitarii guards and hexagramic (and Immateria) wards to prevent warp exposure. These vaults are duplicated on each of their colonies and access to the originals is strictly controlled. It isn't a component, it was just something they came up with and had built. It wasn't even technically an endeavor, as it didn't raise their PF. They are just paranoid about losing the knowledge in those STCs. The Ad Mech has seen no reason to question their protections to date (although that may have something to do with them providing rare materials and other STCs in trade as well).

Thanks William, your insight has been very helpful. I created the Data Crypt to illustrate a Hive City from one of the Lathe worlds. In the Lost Data Slate I think it is called one of the world backgrounds is of a place that specialized in the storage and maintaining of data. When I built the component I had not taken into account the way you made STC difficulty scale.