Hmm, well he isn`t a psyker at all, I don`t believe.

Not inherently a problem but probably not something to pursue. The Dark Heresy and Deathwatch psyker mechanics are fundamentally different so it's best not to provide the opportunity for overlap.

Stormtrooper does work fairly well - not for firepower, although it's not as bad as you think:

Against an armoured target a stormtrooper's hellgun is only 3 points of damage short of a godywn-pattern bolter, and he can trade up to military plasma weapons or stormbolters fairly easily.

More important, though, is his ability to requisition dudes with Influence - a small horde of stormtroopers and a commander (see the Oblivion's Edge ) is a nice force in Deathwatch, and works well as a 'player character' in combat.

Lastly, he's likely to be 'all things to all men' - the Heed The Higher Call stormtrooper starts with Command, Drive (All), Pilot (Flyers), Demolitions, Medicae, Tech-Use, and Security - all skills which can be extremely valuable to a kill-team in a combat zone if not in combat directly.

Provided you're not facing the fire of hordes directly, he's not too bad durability-wise, either; toughness is ~50-60 (depending on homeworld and where you spend stats), with 7 points of armour and - more importantly - agility nearly as good, Dodge +20 and Step Aside.

By allowing him access to cheaper weapons, do you mean the weapons listed in the Deathwatch CRB or the weapons listed in DH Ascension?

I'd stick to DH weapons (including Ascension ones). If you're going to use a non-astartes, it's worth underscoring the difference in their calibre of armament, which would be heavy weapons for a 'mere mortal'. If you really want to prove a point, you could let him have an Angelus Bolt Carbine from the Inquisitor's Handbook . Essentially firing Astartes bolt rounds (you might want to update the stats to match), but Accurate and (sadly) with only three rounds fitting in a clip!

More important, though, is his ability to requisition dudes with Influence - a small horde of stormtroopers and a commander (see the Oblivion's Edge ) is a nice force in Deathwatch, and works well as a 'player character' in combat.

So, it was confirmed that he did use the Stormtrooper template to create his character. I don`t know any physical stats yet because he hasn`t yet sent me his updated stat block, but I am not too worried. We are thinking that he will roll with a small retinue. They will represent an even more human-element to the Kill Team and can be worked into our story and fluff really easily. Our Kill Team is essentially housed on an Inquisitor`s Destroyer in between missions. As they are already rather unorthodox, this shouldn`t be a problem at all.

I'd stick to DH weapons (including Ascension ones). If you're going to use a non-astartes, it's worth underscoring the difference in their calibre of armament, which would be heavy weapons for a 'mere mortal'. If you really want to prove a point, you could let him have an Angelus Bolt Carbine from the Inquisitor's Handbook . Essentially firing Astartes bolt rounds (you might want to update the stats to match), but Accurate and (sadly) with only three rounds fitting in a clip!

Yeah, I am fairly certain he has his weapon loadout worked out. In either case, we will still use the weapons stats from DH Ascension and tweek them if anything is apparently too buffed or too weak. He knows his roll is not front line combat.

UPDATE: The Black Templar Lib has YET to use his force sword, has only used a psychic power ONCE so far and still hates himself.

The DH Ascension storm trooper is working out brilliantly, filling the stealth gap while attempting to not get annihilated.

In case you are wondering, this is a PbP, hence the MONTHS of playing and relative slow progression.

Red flags by the dozen! Breakage! Breakage! Abort!

Oh heck, knock yourself out. Do yourself a favor, though, and keep a log of everything you shouldn't have allowed your players to do as your work of art crumbles and flakes off the canvas. When the end comes, read that log several times and resolve not to make those same mistakes again. Reread it before you start up your next game.

Look, we all want "interesting" in our games. But "interesting" doesn't inhabit the characters we draw up before the first game session. "Interesting" is something that happens during game play. It's something that possesses these characters in the time that we actually play them. You don't need this kind of "interesting" in order to hook the players into their characters, or if you do, these players didn't really want to play this game, in which case play a different game.

I could go on for pages with this topic. Usually I'd be far more acerbic. I'm in an unusually good mood today, though, so I'll let it drop.

My players came to me with ideas and we worked through them. They have made some of the most interesting RPing moments in this game which has been alive and well now since November of last year. Everyone is having a blast, most of all me, and nothing has come close to "breaking."

If you don't like something, there really is a way to voice your opinion without sounding like such a pompous D-bag. Why don't you go on for pages in your head and do everyone else a favor, son. Your high opinions of yourself and how you think other people should run their games is really something special.

Oh thank you, magnanimous one for being in such a good mood and gracing us with the beard of your neck! You truly are the master of 40k enjoyability and balancing issues!

Son? Heh.

If something ain't broke, don't try to fix it, no?

Alex

Son? Heh.

I find this hilarious, but only because I know EK has more years of roleplaying under his belt than I have years period- and I'm about to enter my third decade on this miserable little mudball of a planet.

I find it vaguely amusing that everyone went ""Black Templar Librarian? Nooo!" and ignored the mention of a female Astartes apothecary. That's the sort of thing that tends to twist knickers around here as well... but this isn't a thread trying to justify these things, so I won't go into why that are/aren't canonically justifiable. Instead you get this: hey, if it's working for your game, then good for you.

Heehee. I can always rely on you, Annaamarth, to be the peacemaker. Heck yeah, everyone's a winner! All that matters is you tried your best. Hang on, I've got trophies for everyone.

Thank you, fellow follower of the Metal Gods. It isn't really an age issue; I have met people twice my age without a lick of sense in their heads and people ten years younger who go miles in impressing me.

I am sure that EK has a ton of knowledge and experience, but that isn't the issue. The issue is how he feels I should run my games as opposed to actually ever using that knowledge of his to help in a constructive manner with the question at hand, like everyone else has done. Normally when those people have issue with how I am doing something, they lay it out constructively. Tact is really an undersold quality.

In a fit of rage last night I pulled the ad-hominem route and I should have been better than that. But, alas, EK, I really just dislike you. It is based on nothing more than the way in which you speak to people you have no knowledge of - and in the high regards with which you obviously hold yourself.

It is contrary to me in every way, so I assume you and I should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Feh. Peacemaker hell. I didn't say don't keep a log of risky decisions made, I just said that as long as it's working out and everyone's having fun, then grand. Everybody really does win.

Are there things I'd have done different? Yep. But this ain't rules questions, and non-canonical character selection is not the point of this thread. The point isn't "can't we all get along," but "Heh. Reactions are funny."

On an unrelated note, I now kind of want to try to run a Sororitas-variant as an Apothecary trained chapter-serf belonging to the Deathwatch. Not actually a Sororitas. because those are Ordo Hereticus and not Ordo Xenos, and not actually a Deathwatch marine... just along as a field medic, with the Godwyn-De'az bolter that all Sororitas get. Narthecium and Reductor, medicae skill, smaller mag... hm. Plausible as a regional flavour to the local Watch station. Background... hm. A Sororitas chapel 'given' to the Deathwatch for services rendered, saving a shrine world? That could allow many of the traditions to have continued. Faith in the Emperor would be different- I imagine these not-quite-Sororitas as being more like little bitty chaplains than as nuns-with-guns, sacrificing Sororitas style faith for Chaplain litanies.

... Jeez. That got off-topic fast.

That would be awesome. Bring some more flavor to the squad.

She could simply be the last survivor of some Holy Relic on a Shrine-World getting hit by a multitude of Xenos. The KT's mission could be to actually rescue her and try to find some sort of end to the xenos attack. Rescuing her could be important to their mission adviser (Inquisitor, Watch Captain, whatever).

She would have the same problems as my DH Ascension player, squishier but makes up for it by being able to interact with normal humans and having other skills the Astartes simply dont have. One of the cool things I am seeing is that the other players, while they may want to just charge in and tear sh;t up, they actually keep giving the Ascension PC a chance to prove his worth (be it gather intel or stalk behind enemy lines and take out comms or targets of opportunity before they storm the gates).

The problems I could see is running into a justification for how/why she can successfully heal/have knowledge of Astartes physiology. Of course, you could always just say the Inquisitor/Watch captain/whomever stuck her in a hypno-indoc station and BAM problem solved.

^^ This is my long-winded way of saying, DO IT.

Already covered- Chapter Serf to the Deathwatch. She's not properly Sororitas, she's... other. An anomaly, because (IIRC) the Deathwatch normally doesn't use Chapter Serfs- which I find disappointing, because I like the idea of interacting with the 'merely mortal' servants- but as I said, this could be a matter of 'non-codex' organization, where the codex referred to is the codex that defines nominal Watch Station organizations rather than nominal Chapter organizations.

Her organization simply retained the Sororitas training as part of their traditions, while eventually growing out of other traditions- worship of the God Emperor becoming veneration for the Emperor, the Primarchs, and Macharius the Sigilite.

But no, I'm involved in enough things to keep me occupied at the moment, thanks. Feel free to PM the game to me though, in case that changes.

Rites of Battle supplement has serfs as companions, so it can work out perfectly fine.

Aw shucks. I hurt your feelings. Now you don't like me. That's okay. I wasn't looking for friends. I don't have time for the ones I already have. You came here looking for advice, or maybe I misinterpreted and you were just looking for an ego-stroking. The latter seems unlikely, as that would be adolescent and your grammar isn't bad enough for you to be that young.

So you've met some older people that were less than stellar and some younger ones that impressed you. That's makes you....normal. Age, or more precisely time spent, is a pretty good indicator of experience, though. It's the kind of odds Vegas makes a living on.

You took my sarcasm poorly. I expect that from time to time. I don't dislike you. I've sat in your chair. I've made the same mistakes. You could have said something to the effect that you know your game is stretching system capacity, but you wanted to test its limits. You know I'm right. That's why you got defensive. It was late and you were tired. That's why you got angry.

You haven't sat in my chair. You have no perspective to make a judgment. I forgive that. One day you will have that perspective, and you sound intelligent enough to remember this conversation on that day. Then you will understand. At that time you will forgive me. And that's good enough for me.

People come here all the time looking for advice and I give it freely, so allow me my candor. You start out with a statement asking us what's wrong with this picture and go ahead to tell us that 60% of your players cross the lines of rules. I've said it many times, but I guess I have to say it again. Internet games bring together people separated by many time zones, thousands of miles, and often of differing first languages. The only thing we have in common is a set of rules to go by. You set those rules aside and wonder what's wrong with the picture? It's the painter.

Now, thirty or forty years from now, when you've seen these same posts time and time again, answering them nicely the first thousand times or so, because you want to be tactful, each time maybe getting a little less tactful, you can think back on that day when you were younger, your eyes were brighter, and your step was lighter, and no doubt that will temper your words for that person asking why his toy doesn't work in its intended role.

Shoot, most of my peers don't even play any more. Then again, most of them didn't keep up with computer technology.

(IIRC) the Deathwatch normally doesn't use Chapter Serfs-

I believe the Deathwatch does. Or would have to. There's certainly way too much day-to-day stuff to trouble Space Marines with. Difference might be that a lot of "serfs" are actually Inquisitorial retinue flunkies or whatnot. But I see the DW having serfs in some form.

LOL at Errant Knight's wall of text that I assure you I will not read. No doubt another ego trip.

Anyways, quiet now. The men are talking.

I think Ksha is correct and that the Deathwatch has Serfs and tons of Servitors spread around. So, that aspect of your background should not be problematic at all, Aman.

Men? Please. You're a role-player. At best you're a geek and at worst a total dweeb. Don't fear the wall of text. Embrace your inner geek. Love the egghead in yourself. Self-loathing is over-dramatic.

Aman, what stat block are you going to be using for the not-so-Sororitas Sororitas?

Straight up DH Ascension (Or one of the supplements)?

Men? Please. You're a role-player. At best you're a geek and at worst a total dweeb. Don't fear the wall of text. Embrace your inner geek. Love the egghead in yourself. Self-loathing is over-dramatic.

Oh, can't speak for anyone else but I am a complete momma-boy. And I just love taking on manly men head-on. The more they pride themselves for their toughness, the better.

Alex

Annaamarth/Amarth/Anna/A/Marth , what stat block are you going to be using for the not-so-Sororitas Sororitas?

Straight up DH Ascension (Or one of the supplements)?

Hells, I dunno- this is so off-the-cuff it's not funny. I guess I figured I'd start looking at DH/Ascension, figure out how to splice in Apothecary/Chaplain stuff in place of Pure Faith and maybe some other stuff, and see how whatever GM feels like giving it a shot decides how to roll with it. She's human, so fundamentally I'd use DH, RT, OW, or even BC as a base, then try to make it work from there. The important part is that she'd need to function as a balanced, combat-capable character in a DW game, but she should be low-tier in combat strength. In exchange, she offers support functionality as an Apothecary and a Chaplain, I guess. She could also be the group face when dealing with people who don't want or aren't capable of dealing with Astartes, but she won't be able to do the infiltration bit as well as an assassin or guardsman- that's not her bag.

In any case, your game doesn't need it, because you already have it. You have a female Astartes apothecary. I was just trying to come up with a plausible way to run the same archetype whilst only love-tapping established fluff rather than crushing it with a ten-pound sledge, and it came to me in a moment of neckbeardy inspiration. (Cripes, I need to shave.)

I wasn't asking to introduce it into my game at all. I was just wondering the direction you were going to take. I really enjoy seeing what people come up with based on the various systems and especially what has worked well for some and not for others.

Our group is solid. Sadly, for personal reasons the player who was adamant on playing the female Astartes had to drop out. We have a replacement running that PC until this mission ends and then he is bringing in a Carcharadon Assault Marine. So much violence is about to come.

Well, you have my basic concept, and how I would approach it. The most important part of how I'd approach it is "yo, GM: how does this idea make you feel?" If I got neckbeardy rage (cripes, I still need to shave) in response, I'd drop it. If I got tentative interest, I'd move into the realm of reasonable justification then into an attempt at balancing. Keeping the GM involved at every step is the important bit, at least to me.

Having a beard is the second manliest thing a person can do after deadlifts.

Having a neckbeard however.... my god.

I think Ksha is correct and that the Deathwatch has Serfs and tons of Servitors spread around. So, that aspect of your background should not be problematic at all, Aman.

I remembered last night that the Dark Angels don't have serfs at all - they're far too secretive and paranoid. HOWEVER, every failed Aspirant becomes a servitor and they probably also take "trophies" from worlds or ships they capture to lobotomize as well. So they have a ton of servitors to do their work, maintain their gear, arm them, and even staff their Chapter fleet. No reason the Deathwatch couldn't largely do the same: cull a nest of heretics, and servitor-ize most of them.