Your interpretation of "hit" comes from your interpretation of the talent. It should be the opposite!!!

I think Furious Assault is OK as it is:

It represents well the type of brutish fighter that, after hitting and destabilizing an opponent, hits him again until death.

In your example, an Eldar (someone extremely dodgey!!!) can't dodge the ork, and the ork is not someone you would imagine fast enough for this kind of double-punch maneuvers...

It doesn't come from my interpretation of the talent, but from the use of "hit" in the several places in the book, such as in the Evasion description. "After a character IS HIT, but vefore damage is rolled..."

In this interpretation,

EDIT: Ignore point 1, because I did the math and realized that I was wrong.

1) Furious Assault does not really do anything. If you do the math, you'll see, I think, that your chance to hit with multiple attacks will be about the same with Swift Attack, which is the same tier, without giving up your Reaction,

say, WS40. Assume target has a Dodge of 30%. WS40 + All-Out Attack = 70%. Chance of it being Dodged 30%, so real chance of hitting is 49%. Chance of second attack hitting if the first attack hits = 34%. So you have a grand 1/3 chance of both attacks hitting and the attack actually doing anything.

Now, with Swift Attack. Half-Action Aim + Swift Attack = 50%. Chance of dodging is 30%. Chance of hitting period is 35%.

2) There is literally no way to overwhelm target Reactions without Two-Weapon Wielder.

Orks hit hard and fast with flurries of massive blows.

This really requires a rules question though.

Why Swift attack wouldn't overwhelm the target reactions?

Also, wielding two weapons is not something high-end: any starter character can do that (although you can have some penalties for it).

Swift attack is 1 attack, and takes up 1 Reaction to Dodge.

That TWW is high-end or not isn't the point, it's that it is literally the ONLY way to do it.

I stand corrected for the SwiftAttack bit.

On the other hand, a simpel boy with a pistol and a choppa can overwhelm an Eldar dodge attempt.

I'm perfectly OK with an ork with a shoota and a choppa NOT being able to overwhelm him.

On the other hand, a simpel boy with a pistol and a choppa can overwhelm an Eldar dodge attempt.

What's wrong with that? We're talking base-level "simple" Eldar, Dark Eldar Warriors and Craftworld Guardians. They are SUPPOSED to die in close combat against Orks, both in fluff and in TT.

Aspect Warriors and other Eldar "soldiers" have Step Aside, and/or can Assassin Strike out of range after they attack, so it doesn't affect them.

I can do a Wych vs. an Ork Boy if you want.

OK here we go.

Imperial Guard vs, Ork Boy in the IG's prefered form of fighting. An Ork Boy vs. a Heavy Bolter Heavy Weapons Team made up of a Guardsman and his Comrade with Stabilize. Start 100 meters apart.

Initiative: Boy rolls 10 + 3. Team rolls 4 + 7.

Round 1.

Ork yells out a warcry and Runs 18 meters. He's now 82 meters from the IG.

IG half-action aims and fires a full-auto burst. BS35 + 10 (stabilize) + 10 (half-action aim) = 55 - 20 (target Ran) = 35%; he rolls 65.

Round 2.

Ork runs 18 more meters. 64 meters from the IG. That's Short Range,

IG half-action aims and fires a full-auto burst. BS35 + 10 (stabilize) + 10 (half-action aim) + 10 (short range) = 65 - 20 (Ran) = 45%. The roll is 69.

Round 3.

Ork runs 18 more meters. 46 meters from the IG.

IG half-action aims and fires a full-auto burst. BS35 + 10 (stabilize) + 10 (half-action aim) + 10 (short range) = 65 - 20 (Ran) = 45%. The roll is 89.

Round 4.

Ork runs 18 more meters. 28 meters from the IG.

IG half-action aims and fires a full-auto burst. BS35 + 10 (stabilize) + 10 (half-action aim) + 10 (short range) = 65 - 20 (Ran) = 45%. The roll is 23. That's 3 degrees of success = 3 hits.

The Ork's Dodge is 10% and it rolls 49.

Damage is 1d10+8 Pen 5 Tearing. Completely ignores the Ork's armour.

The first hit hits the left leg. Damage is 9, 1. Tearing takes the highest = 9 + 8 = 17 - TB6 = 11. Ork now has 1 Wound.

Second hit to the leg as well. Damage is 3, 8. 8 + 8 = 16 - TB6 = 10. That would be a -9 Crit, but True Grit reduces this to a -3. An X -3 Crit to the leg is...the Ork takes 2d10 = 12 Agility Damage and his Agility is now 18. No more Dodging for the Ork, and hiss Movement Rate is now 1.

Third hit is to the body. Damage is 1, 3. 3 + 8 = 11 - TB6 = 5. True Grit reduces this to -1, which is a -4 X Ctrit to the Body... The Ork is knocked back 1d5 = 4 meters, is Prone, and is Stunned for 1 Round.

RESULTS: Ork at -4 Wounds, Stunned, Prone, 32 meters from IG.

Round 5

Ork lies on ground, can't do anything.

IG shoots, Half-Action Aim + FAB with Stabilize. BS35 + 10 (Stabilize) + 10 (half-action aim) + 20 (Stunned) + 10 (short range) = 85 - 10 (target is Prone) = 75% and it rolls 23,. That's 6 degrees of success = 6 hits = dead Ork.

RESULT: ORK DEAD AFTER 5 ROUNDS

Come to think of it, the IG should have used Suppressing Fire, but they didn't to make things easier.

In fact, by using SF the Eldar in the second example could well have won! If you can Suppress them, Choppa Boys are only really a threat in numbers large enough for Mob Rule to kick in.

) There is literally no way to overwhelm target Reactions without Two-Weapon Wielder.

Orks hit hard and fast with flurries of massive blows.

This really requires a rules question though.

I found something else:

Feint. A Half Action available to any character or foe.

You should really re-think the way you play your orks. In your game melee is simply not an option... not fun at all for melee oriented characters!!

To continue my time-wasting exercise, and to further illustrate my point about prefered kinds of fighting.

Up above, we saw that in its prefered more of fighting (medium range, steak attacks, an area in which superior mobility can be used)

Hmmm, steak attacks you say? I now know the secret to beating an ork! You're screwed next time Garret goes in our OW campaign! Feth the heavy bolter in the chimera, I'm tossing sirloins at the green tide!

First, Feint is not a way to overwhelm Reactions (= make more attacks than the defender has Reactions), it is a way to vitiate the posisbility of Evasion entirely. (Something Orks can do too BTW, making the Eldar's Dodge 0%.)

Second, no offense but you're not making any sense. By this logic, you should also eliminate all Two-Weapon Wielder Talents from Wyches and so forth, because they do the same thing as Furious Assault -- only better, because they have Swift Attack too, and can still Dodge! Why? Because some player wants to be able to slice and dice dedicated melee specialists in melee combat despite it being against a) the rules and b) the fluff?

(Correspondingly, to make ranged-oriented characters happy, I should reduce all Tau weapon damage to 1d10 and a range of 20m. Because I have players that have a thing for wrasslin' wild animals, elephants will have their Strength reduced to 10. Some players just don't like their attacks being Dodged, so all Eldar will have their Dodge and Parry halved across the board!)

Orks are the premier archetypal melee combatants, alongside Tyranids, of 40K. OF COURSE THEY WILL KILL STARTING CHARACTERS IN MELEE COMBAT. After 3000 XP or so that is another story (after they buy Step Aside, mainly), but starting characters will, of course, be killed.

Completely ignored my steak tactics, you are a cruel GM...

Completely ignored my steak tactics, you are a cruel GM...

I'm a cruel son of a *****.

The plan was for them to realize they were losing and have to resort to some nasty alternative strategies. There were 120 savage orcs, mostly with melee weapons, but some salvaged grenades and guns.

The party is at the end of a massive descent shaft (2km long hallway of stone about 10m wide and high). At the end of the shaft is a stone wall with a single doorway. They're on the other side of the doorway, in a tomb.

Setup : They lined up the 3 gunners at the back of the room (medic, operator, heavy) behind cover and put the commissar and priest on either side of the doorway (inside) with their chainswords. The Operator rigged 5 salvaged las carbines to short circuit and eventually explode in the hallway (basically unreliable timed grenades).

Were there at least 4 Comrades?

Now for my long-awaited/long-dreaded Ork Boy vs. Wych grudge match, in which we will see a moderately intelligently played Dark Eldar melee specialist in action and see why Furious Assault (usually) does not matter.

Ork McGork the Slugga Boy is hanging around by the pond, working on his new severed head, getting it all just right.

Polly Sadistica, Dark Eldar Wych, who is armed with hydra gauntlets (a shardnet would just be too unfair) wants that severed head for her own collection!

Being a reasonably intelligent Embodiment of Evil, she approaches McGork from behind, using her Stealth of 69 and Unnatural Agility (3) vs. his Awareness of... 12. She rolls 28, which is four degrees of success + two for her Unnatural Agility = six degrees of success. McGrork cannot possibly beat this.

Polly slinks through the underbrush to within 24 meters (her Charge range) and bounds through the air like silent death (ooh look mixed metaphors).

Round 1! Surprise Round!

Polly Charges. WS46 + 20 (Charge) + 30 (Unaware Ork) = 96% and she rolls 60. That's four degrees of success to the noggin. Because of Threshing, that is actually 2 hits. Each does 1d10+3 damage.The first does 4 + 3 = 7 - TB6 = 1; the second does 4 + 3 - TB6 = 1.

End of round 1. The Ork has 10 Wounds.

Round 2

For some bizarre reason the Wych doesn't have Lightning Reflexes listed, but I assume this is an FFG oversight since Warriors have it. For initiative, the Ork rolls 3 + 3 = 6. She rolls 2 and 7; 7 + AB8 = 15. I wonder.

Polly makes a Half-Action Aim and a Swift Attack with both hydra gauntlets. She has Two Weeapon Wielder and Ambidextrous, so that's at a -10.

First attack: WS46 + 10 (aim) = 56 - 10 (multiple attack) = 46%; she rolls 47.

Second attack: WS46 - 10 = 36% and she rolls 63. Both miss.

Behold! She has Assassin Strike! Her Acrobatics is 69% and she rolls 05. She is now 8 meters from the Ork. Which means, note, that he cannot use Furious Assault.

"RRAWR! HEAD MINE!" Ork charges.WS37 + 20 (charge) = 57%; it rolls 70.

The Ork runs up and misses.

Round 2 ends: no change.

Polly, you guessed it, does it again:

Polly makes a Half-Action Aim and a Swift Attack with both hydra gauntlets.

First attack: WS46 + 10 (aim) = 56 - 10 (multiple attack) = 46%; she rolls 20. That's 3 degrees of success = 2 hits x 2 for Threshing = 4 hits.

The Ork's Dodge is 10% and he rolls 93.

Two hits to the head, one hit to the (random determination = left) arm, and one hit to the body. Pen 2 will ignore the Ork armour in the Body location.

First hit does 5 + 3 = 8 - TB6 = 2. The Ork takes 2 Wounds.

Second hit does 8 + 3 = 11 - TB6 = 5. The Ork takes 5 Wounds.

Third hit does 10 + 3 = 13 - TB6 = 7 Wounds. This BTW is a -4 Crit, but True Grit drops it to -1: he drops whatever was in the hand, which I guess is the severed head. NOOO! Me head! That's also Righteous Fury! d5 roll = 4 = the ork falls Prone and takes 2 levels of Fatigue.

Fourth hit does 5 + 3 = 8 - TB6 = 2 Wounds. Due to True Grit, that brings the Ork down to just a -2 Crit result, this time to the body: the Ork suffers 1 Fatigue and must make a Toughness Test or be Stunned fo1 Round. His Toughess is 44 -10 for Fatigue = 34% and he rolls 37. Iron Jaw gets him a reroll and he rolls 79. He is Stunned.

Second attack. The Ork is now both Stunned and Prone: WS46 +20 for Stunned +10 for Prone = 76 - 10 for multiple attack = 66% and she rolls 08. That's 6 degrees of success = 3 hits x2 for threshing = 6 hits. To the right leg, right leg, body, arm (let's just say left again), head, and body.

First leg hit: 6 + 3 = 9 - TB6 = 2 wounds, dropped to a -3 Crit from True Grit. The Ork suffers 1d5 = 3 Agility Damage and is now suffering from Blood Loss

Second leg hit: 10 + 3 = 13 - TB6 = 6, -6 again from True Grit equals a -4 Crit. The Ork's Movement Rate is now halved and he takes 1d10 = 5 Agility damage (total of 8). Aha! More Righteous Fury! 1d5 = 1 = another level of Fatigue. McGrork now has 4 levels of Fatigue.

Hit to body: 9 + 3 = 12, same as before, another crit level, this time -5. 1d10 Toughness damage = 4 Toughness Damage.

Hit to left arm: 5 + 3 = 8 - TB6 = 2, same as last time, but -6. The Ork loses 1d5 = 3 fingers and must make a Toughness Test or lose the use of the hand. His Toughness after the Toughness Damage is 40 - 10 for the Fatigue = 30% and he rolls 18.

Hit to head: 9 + 3 = 12 - TB6 = same as last time, but -7. The Ork loses his face, is blinded, and is Stunned another round. He would suffer form Blood Loss if he wasn't already.

Final hit to body: 3. But the 6 degrees of success brings this to 6 + 3 = 9 - TB6 = same as last time, but -8. The Ork's chest is ripped open. He must make a Toughness Test or die. Toughness 40 - 10 (Fatigue) = 30% and he rolls 71.

POLLY SADISTICA RIPS THE ORK'S HEART OUT OF ITS CHEST, CACKLING MANIACALLY!

END RESULT: ORK BOY DEAD IN 15 SECONDS, WYCH UNHARMED.

(Note that if she had used her Combat Drugs, she could have Assassin Striked completely out of the Ork's Charge range.)

Come to think of it, every single Eldar has Acrobatics, which means that every single Eldar can avoid Furious Assault entirely almost 70% of the time by simply withdrawing.

As long as they are not in an enclosed space.

The example with the Ork horde is unsatisfactory in your opinion?

I would remedy it first through fluff and only later resort to crunch. For example:

- have the Orks come up with some form of tactics. Even Orks are not that stupid to keep running to certain death if they see all their fellows cut down. Ofcourse their grasp of tactics is rudimentary, but they might throw some Grots to the PCs to tie them up or even their way with lots of thrown grenades.

- where did all the bodies go? sooner or later the tomb and hall would be filled with dead Orks, granting the new Orks some form of cover and limiting PC mobility.

Well we've covered this before and the OP wasn't implementing the rules correctly (or fully).

I wish my GM would let us be that awesome. We nearly get killed by autogun-wielding cultists everytime we round a corner.