I do entirely - hence the Boost die. However, Difficulty in ranged combat isn't set by a target's speed: it's set by range, which would be reflected in the sniper's distance from his enemy.

The rules suggest that effects that benefit a character translate into Boost die, whilst hindering considerations (wind speed, direction, cover or hindering landmarks/layout) would translate into Setback die.

I don't disagree that your method is certainly valid, of course. But the above is how I would run it.

Oh yeah. I'm not trying to say that my way is best either. Just trying to clarify. In this case, my feeling is that, unless you give the character more boost die than they'd get from aiming normally, their effort to snipe from the shadows is essentially token. It doesn't sway the statistics in their favor (versus regular combat, at least), and I think it should, at least to some degree. (But again, that's just my take)

Throat-slitting? All this unnecessary violence... Why not just knock him out with a well placed blow using a rifle-butt or handy rock?

As for mechanics, I'd give the player an auto-success if he tried any of the above and get on with the game...

I also agree with the GM, though I might have been more generous, e.g.: a boost die for clever player thinking and "surprise!", plus letting any advantages from the previous Stealth roll convert into appropriate numbers of boost die, or even upgrades.

If the player wants to be an Assassin's Creed-type character, they're still going to have to invest the XP into getting enough Stealth and Melee ranks, at which point such actions will become mundane. If the player is complaining that his melee isn't as damaging as a guy with a blaster...that's why people invented blasters, so that the unskilled can lay waste. The game doesn't have to boost the output of melee just because an unskilled character wants to use a particular style.

So I was the GM of the session in question and just wanted to comment. I had asked the player to make a stealth check to avoid being seen which resulted in a success with no despair/triumph. The player stated he would like to stealth slit the throat of one of the Troopers who were both escorting a VIP they captured on the boat. To my surprise the player then got very angry once I asked to have a Melee made with an advantage die due to his stealth check.

Things began to unravel quickly as the player stated they should just be dead as he made the stealth check and didn't see him. I then explained the many things could go wrong (the other trooper or VIP notices the characters to tip off the original trooper, or the trooper spots the blade at the last minute as it come down, or the boat creaks as the player makes his move). Suffice to say the player was not happy with this. I eventually dropped the diplomatic approach and stated that was the end and it can be discussed later.

The player made the roll with 3 threat and succeeded in killing one of the troopers who was previously shot. More frustration was had with the player stating that the game was not cinematic and did not support the stealthy trained killer he was (side note the player had 2 Brawn and 1 rank in Melee with about thirty xp that could have been spent to gain ranks from previous the previous session). I was exasperated as I felt I made a very fair call.

In the end I intend to meet with the player and explain the reasoning again. In hindsight perhaps I should have given another boost die due to the troopers escorting the VIP, but I still don't feel as if the ruling was unfair at all. Not sure what else I can do but hope to avoid future drama.

2 Brawn and 1 in melee? I don't think he is quite to the level of a trained killer with a knife.

From the sound of it you made a perfectly reasonable call on an action that is not specifically detailed in the book. Of course now you can figure out a better way to rule it but your player definitely needs to abide by your ruling. I'd definitely wouldn't let a player kill something without a combat check. Even if I was hand waving the damage for the sake of the narrative they would still make the check. If this was during an actual combat encounter they definitely would be doing a normal roll with bonuses.

Your player seems to not understand the definition of "cinematic nature of the game." W/r/t EotE, "Cinematic" doesn't remotely mean that you don't roll when the mechanics are in play. "Cinematic" means taking the results and applying them in cool ways that we see in the movies. And to me it's no fun if the character never faces risk and can succeed with any and all diceless actions. If that's what he wants I can suggest any number of less-mechanical games than EotE. IMO dice-using games are completely boring without challenges and the risk of the dice failing you. What is the point of playing without overcoming adversity, without good situations turning bad or vice versa...that's what creates memorable, cinematic sessions, not "I slit this dude's throat without him seeing me." Which brings me to my next point...

Your player wants to pull an Altair move, or even "just" a Ventriss...with a vibroblade at 2 Brawn/1 Melee AND makes a continuous big deal about how he "should have been able to do better?" He's not a trained killer with a knife at that level of skill. Seriously he's lucky to not cut off his own fingers slitting someone's throat with 3 dice, 1 upgraded. Sounds like a complainer.

2 Brawn and 1 in melee? I don't think he is quite to the level of a trained killer with a knife.

From the sound of it you made a perfectly reasonable call on an action that is not specifically detailed in the book. Of course now you can figure out a better way to rule it but your player definitely needs to abide by your ruling. I'd definitely wouldn't let a player kill something without a combat check. Even if I was hand waving the damage for the sake of the narrative they would still make the check. If this was during an actual combat encounter they definitely would be doing a normal roll with bonuses.

Well this was during an actual combat encounter and everyone was taking still turns in initiative. They other players were fighting other troopers giving cover fire to the two troopers grabbing the VIP. In this case i definitely feel a Melee check was needed.

Even as someone who is prone to being kind of generous to my players with this sort of thing, I would've made the player make an attack roll.

The stealth roll was simply the player sneaking into range. It does not include the attempt to make the attack, which should be handled separately, because it also has a chance for failure. Especially with an average-strength character with only slight training in melee weapons.

Even if I would handle the dice slightly differently than you, I think you called things correctly. Perhaps the player might have missed and lodged his knife in the Stormtrooper's helmet vocabulator / respirator / whatever the hell that grille is, or had his arm knocked away by a sudden movement from the trooper, or any number of things. Even if you waive the damage, you've still gotta' make sure your knife finds flesh.

Hopefully you and your player can come to and agreement on the matter.

Perhaps I'm generous, but I've always considered that combat vs. unaware targets should be treated differently than combat vs. aware targets.

I agree, except in the case of the OP the trooper was technically aware he was engaged in combat with the other PCs. To me that is very different than a guard just hanging out. Just by the fact he was fighting others makes sneaking up on someone that much harder because we he is moving, been ng defensive, etc from his other attackers.

@JBC22 I think you made the right call. 2 Brawn + 1 Melee is Joe Sixpack on a good day, not exactly Assassin's Creed material. But he can certainly work towards that. If this was D20, he'd be level 1 and have no expectation whatsoever of being able to do what he wanted, he might need reminding of that. If you let him rescale expectations, he'll be expecting to throat-slit Darth Vader once he's at 4 or 5 Melee.

We got into an interesting debate in my group this week over a particular scenario:

We were fighting a small group of storm troopers that ambushed us on a boat. My friend jumped off the boat, swam under the boat, and did a stealth check to sneakily come up on the other side of the boat behind two storm troopers without them noticing he exited the water. He succeeded (due to the nature of the chaos of the combat and his skill in stealth), and then requested to slit the throat of a stormtrooper who did not noticed his presence with a vibro knife. The GM requested he do a melee combat roll and gave him a boost die for the surprise attack.

Here's where the issue comes in: from the player perspective, he feels gipped. He requested to do something, and feels there was little to no chance of failure on a successful roll. In his mind, it was very "assassin's creed" style where the chances of failure (or survival) were slim. A success roll of some kind would just result in successfully slitting the neck of the storm trooper and killing him. Rolling two successes with a knife is hardly cinematic in the way the player desired (it did like, 4-5 damage?), and he argued his ideal playstyle was almost neutered (why would I not just play a ranged light/heavy user when melee is underpowered??)

In the GM's eyes, he felt there was an importance in the narrative dice. The boost die was essentially for the jump, and if he managed a crit on the melee roll the minion would be dead anyway and then this result could be from the knife to the jugular (to which the player argued he could do that from medium range with a gun instead for the same effect). He felt it would be too much 'cheese' if all you had to do was be stealthy and you could take out virtually anyone (to which I agree). He said if it wasn't an important character, or if he was an unarmored guard standing watch in a dimly lit area, it would be fantastic, but given the circumstances it seemed too easy to just say "i kill him".

Obviously the issue is between desired cinematics and maintaining mechanics. I totally get that the player feels his playstyle has been neutered, while I also respect the GM's opinion of maintaining some sort of balance.

Anyway my question to you is: if you had a player request this in this scenario, what would you say?

Have him roll for the attack. If it fails we have a great opportunity for "pucker factor" to increase and more memorable story telling. If he succeeds he has some bragging rights. Kids these days just seem to want everything handed to them....

Perhaps I'm generous, but I've always considered that combat vs. unaware targets should be treated differently than combat vs. aware targets.

I agree, except in the case of the OP the trooper was technically aware he was engaged in combat with the other PCs. To me that is very different than a guard just hanging out. Just by the fact he was fighting others makes sneaking up on someone that much harder because we he is moving, been ng defensive, etc from his other attackers.

Oh, I agree. However, I still think that it should be easier to hit someone who is unaware of you, even if they are in combat, though not as easy. Either way, their attention is turned and they are not expecting an attack from your direction. In this particular case, I would offset the downgraded difficulty with setback dice from attacking a foe in combat.

I suppose that might raise the question of why I don't just give multiple boost die for attacking a flat-footed target, and I guess it's just because I feel like going with a simple static modifier (in this case, unaware always means -1 difficulty die), then affected by a few conditional modifiers (boost / setback dice) keeps the number of dice down and makes it easier to understand from a player perspective, and more consistent.

Well this was during an actual combat encounter and everyone was taking still turns in initiative. They other players were fighting other troopers giving cover fire to the two troopers grabbing the VIP. In this case i definitely feel a Melee check was needed.

I think the consensus is that the call was fair. Even if different GMs may have done things slightly differently that still doesn't mean the call was not fair. No one is going to do things exactly the same. From the sound of it the player was way off base with both his expectations and behavior.

Consensus has already been established, the GM's call was spot on. Killing another sentient should never be automatic, even if it is a minion. At best I might reduce the challenge dice to 1, rather than the standard 2. However, no matter how perfect the approach might be, the added step of grabbing the head, exposing the neck and slitting the throat, especially since a vibro knife likely makes a humming sound, is not a simple move. Even people shot at point blank range can survive.

I'd still reward the character for the stealthy approach through role playing xp.

Consensus has already been established, the GM's call was spot on. Killing another sentient should never be automatic, even if it is a minion. At best I might reduce the challenge dice to 1, rather than the standard 2. However, no matter how perfect the approach might be, the added step of grabbing the head, exposing the neck and slitting the throat, especially since a vibro knife likely makes a humming sound, is not a simple move. Even people shot at point blank range can survive.

I'd still reward the character for the stealthy approach through role playing xp.

That's a good point, actually. In lore, I believe vibro weapons are supposed to make rather loud whines.

Jus to add a voice of dissent:

While I do not think the GM necessarily made the wrong call (and it does sound like the player was off base with his tantrum) I think it is perfectly fine for a PC to get "free" kills after setting up a cool situation.

There's no need for balance. A call in one situation does not have to mean that every other similiar situation will be handled the same way.

Edge is a narrative game were the PCs are the heroes. In cases which are not clear cut I prefer to err on the sidenof the PC being awesome.

Personally I think this was a wasted opportunity for the player to feel awesome.

Perhaps give the player the choice of "yes but" - sure you can sneak up and take out the trooper but you will be exposed in the open next turn.

If these situations keep cropping up have a talk about it together before next session to avoid frustration.

If I were the GM I would have allowed it... Then the next fight have an enemy sneak up on him and with a successful skill check insta-kill his Assassin's Creed wanna be. If the skill check failed I'd keep doing so every fight until the character was dead to prove my point.

I also have a lore question here. Stormtroopers always wore that black cowl which was made of what? For environmental purposes only? Or more armor/protection based like a cortosis weave or 'Kevlar like' type material. This would render a knife slitting action maybe a daunting action? Thoughts?

Lol cortosis? More like a wetsuit type jump suit that is sealed so the armor and wearer can function in adverse environment

If you can resolve an entire combat with one roll (p. 323) I don't think it would be entirely wrong to allow a stealth kill with one roll.

Either way works fine really.

If I were the GM I would have allowed it... Then the next fight have an enemy sneak up on him and with a successful skill check insta-kill his Assassin's Creed wanna be. If the skill check failed I'd keep doing so every fight until the character was dead to prove my point.

I don't recommend engaging in one-upping games of dickery from either side of the screen. They're impossible to win, and not enjoyable for anyone.

I also have a lore question here. Stormtroopers always wore that black cowl which was made of what? For environmental purposes only? Or more armor/protection based like a cortosis weave or 'Kevlar like' type material. This would render a knife slitting action maybe a daunting action? Thoughts?

Given the nature of vibroweapons, I'd say it wouldn't be too hard. It's basically like holding a powered saw (except much stronger). Heck, they even have pierce 2 built into their rules, which reflects their inherent ability to cut through armor.

Just a comment to bladerunner: EotE is a more narrative-style game (compared to, say, Dark Heresy, Shadowrun, or WoD), but that doesn't mean that mechanical rulings shouldn't be consistent. To me, knowing that the rules will likely be adjudicated similarly in similar situations allows me to not worry so much about the rules - I know they will work non-arbitrarily, Rule of Cool or not.

Being the hero does not mean your actions should automatically have no chance of failure, or that succeeding in sneaking up on someone means you automatically get to kill them. There's different mechanics in play, namely defense and soak. A stormtrooper is still a minion meaning it takes a lot less to kill them than a "fully-fledged" character but even that is more a matter of how much damage they can take, not short-lining the rules just because they're individually kind of irrelevant. In all likelihood, making the player roll an attack would likely have resulted in the trooper dying anyway, given how Minions work! And if they had failed, that would be a Plot Thing.

To be fair, I might see things differently if the player was a Brawl 5, Melee 3 Wookiee, but in this case the player seemed to want puissance in a skill that his stats simply did not reflect.

I also have a lore question here. Stormtroopers always wore that black cowl which was made of what? For environmental purposes only? Or more armor/protection based like a cortosis weave or 'Kevlar like' type material. This would render a knife slitting action maybe a daunting action? Thoughts?

Given the nature of vibroweapons, I'd say it wouldn't be too hard. It's basically like holding a powered saw (except much stronger). Heck, they even have pierce 2 built into their rules, which reflects their inherent ability to cut through armor.

True, but a pierce move = stab. A throat slash = slice. Not the same thing.

I also have a lore question here. Stormtroopers always wore that black cowl which was made of what? For environmental purposes only? Or more armor/protection based like a cortosis weave or 'Kevlar like' type material. This would render a knife slitting action maybe a daunting action? Thoughts?

The bodyglove was worn under the armour. The stormies glove could also be sealed, so it was a little more extensive than the generic laminate armour in the book. Someone (can't remember who for sure) had a good rendition of stormtrooper armour using up the HP with Enhanced Optics, Superior and Vacuum- Sealed (I believe).