Keep in mind folks that. Boarding actions are very common in 40k. The average sized escort is over 1/2KM long. A lot of the crew is conscripts. Thus the ship security forces are huge, and the boarding parties may pack a lot of fire power. (In BFG often boarding actions are simply raids to cause damage.)

warpdancer said:

Ministorum?

Are you sure you mean that? The Adeptus Ministorum is the priesthood, and they're not allowed control of armed forces on the scale of the Guard or Navy.

If you mean Munitorum - that is, the Departmento Munitorum (itself a division of the Adeptus Administratum, which is in turn part of the Adeptus Terra) - then you're, IMO, on the right track.

As I envisage it, given the limited amount of information available and some pondering on the matter:

Military Law is a matter enforced primarily by the chain of command of the branch of the Imperial Armed Forces in question - in the Imperial Guard, a Lieutenant will discipline and punish any of his men who break the rules, and similarly the Petty Officers, crew-bosses and suchlike of the Imperial Navy will deal with infractions amongst their subordinates in whatever manner they deem appropriate within the bounds of those same laws (which, if the laws in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer and Munitorum Manual are anything to go by, means that nobody seems to mind from a legal standpoint if you want to execute your subordinates - indeed, it appears to be the standard punishment for a number of offenses).

That's the natural state of things. Representatives of the Departmento Munitorum Commissariat are employed to oversee these matters, as well as ensure and enforce the loyalty and moral health of the men under their supervision (Commissars don't, afterall, command - that's what the officers are for), up to and including the officers commanding the unit to which they're assigned (Commissars are typically assigned at a Regimental or Company level in the Imperial Guard, and at the Ship level in the Navy - every Ship and every Regiment will have a minimum of one Commissar, though some will have more).

In certain cases, a Commissar or other authority will nominate particular groups of men to have a more active/more defined role in regards to law and discipline. This might be a Commissar selecting a squad of men to assist him within an Imperial Guard regiment, or one of the boarding crews assigned for similar reasons to the Commissar's office by the ship's Captain, or it might be an initiative spearheaded by Sector Admiralty or the General Staff of an Army Group. It might even be a combined effort, pushed for by the Lord Commander Solar/Warmaster of a Crusade (Lord Commander Solar and Warmaster are roughly equivalent titles for a combined-arms rank; they thus are exceptionally rare individuals with command over both Navy and Guard) with influence felt by both ground forces and fleet elements alike. It may be a new development, or it might be a traditional measure with centuries or millennia of practical authority.

In any case, Imperial Guard Stormtroopers are an ideal source of troops for this purpose, particularly on a larger scale - they're individually more capable and more disciplined than normal Guardsmen, generally more loyal, afforded better equipment, better educated (true Stormtroopers, like the Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas, are raised by the Schola Progenium), and in a number of cases often recieve commissions as Commissars (Commissar-Cadets are, as per the current background, only one way of training political officers). It may be seen as prudent, then, to assign Stormtroopers to the service of a Commissar as a form of Military Police - this actually fits nicely into the background, as Stormtroopers are already regarded with some measure of animosity by normal rank-and-file Imperial Guardsmen, so slotting them into the role of a Commissar's 'enforcers' would only feed into that.

Now, given that Military Law is still a matter bound inextricably with the chains of command, these Provost-Stormtroopers would find themselves still bound by the chain of command to an extent - being drawn from Stormtrooper Companies, they exist outside of Regimental chains of command, and being technically Imperial Guard, they fall outside of the Naval chain of command entirely, but as enforcers of military law, they're required to operate under the authority of the Commanding Officer of whatever force they're assigned to... except where overruled by a Commissar.

As for intelligence services... I'm still of the opinion that a centralised Divisio Tactica (I know I've heard it somewhere before, but can't remember where - either way, it sounds sufficiently appropriate that I'll continue using it regardless) would be the official military intelligence service used by the Imperium, supporting the Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard, and having the obvious ties to the Inquisition (that is, the Inquisition keeps an eye on military intelligence in case they find anything of interest).

Robban-O said:

Who would they spy on:

Suspected heretic activity within the ranks - after learing of organised criminal elements working within the navy (or even just on a single ship), they send someone in to infiltrate the group, find out how widespread it is and who the leaders are, then eliminate them. Note that in 40k 'heretic' does not equal 'chaotic', but is actually a catch-all term for just about any kind of criminal activity.

Piracy - intelligence officers could be sent to infiltrate pirate havens and smuggling dens. Destroying these groups is one of the primary duties of the navy.

Trade - combination of the above two, the navy may be interested in the activities of legitimate trading guilds. If the navy notices that a certain merchant house is engaged in unusual activity ("why are they sending so many transports to a feral world...") they may decide to investigate.

Of course, these are just some of the legitimate interests of navy intelligence. I can also see them engaging in less official work, promoting the interests of the Navy over those of other factions of the Imperium. They might want to keep an eye on influential governors, assassinate critics etc, blackmail adepta etc.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Imperial Guard Members are not members of the Adeptum Terra, a Commander of a regiment is not an meber of the munitorum, he is only a citicen, therefore he has no rights under Adeptum law.

A member of the munitorum is a member of the Adeptum Terra, therefore he has the right of a court., and i believe it would undermine the authority of a ships commander if he could executed on a whim by the commissar.

warpdancer said:

Except that, because the Imperial Guard is part of the Departmento Munitorum, a regimental commander is a servant of the Departmento Munitorum, because it is through the agency of the Munitorum and the Adeptus Terra that his status and authority is conferred upon him, just as an Imperial Commander - the appointed and acknowledged ruler of any given world in the Imperium - is granted his status and authority by the Adeptus Terra. Remember that the Adeptus Terra is, as much as anything, a catch-all term for "the Government of the Imperium", encompassing a wide variety of organisations.

As it stands, few people have any "rights" under the Lex Imperialis (the Laws of the Imperium, enforced by the Adeptus Arbites) anyway. That is, however, a distinct matter from military law...

warpdancer said:

Actually, it's a misconception that Commissars simply execute on a whim all the time. In truth, summary executions are only performed in the heat of battle, and normally for immediate infractions such as cowardice in the face of the enemy. Outside of combat, a Commissar's duty remains the same (to monitor and ensure the loyalty and moral purity of all the men under his supervision, including officers), but his methods will change - men (of any rank - no rank is beyond the scrutiny of the Commissariat) can be subject to a court-martial, over which the Commissar will preside. This is as often the case for rank-and-file guardsmen as it is for officers of Guard or Navy.

Indeed, it has to be the case for the Captains of starships - they have to be subject to the judgement and scrutiny of a Commissar, because a warship of the Imperial Navy is too valuable and dangerous a thing to be subjected to the risk of disloyal, cowardly or even traitorous Captains. Whatever the crew may think of their Captain, it is imperative that they understand that not even he is beyond judgement.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Excellent reasoning. I agree entirely with your logic here, N0-1_H3r3. This explains perfectly why Naval Security Detachments are under the control of a regular Naval officer (in the Eisenhorn book a Commodore) rather than a Commissar.

Part of the fun of 40k is taking the inconsistant, multi-authored setting and logically arguing it through until a more logical and coherent pattern emerges. We all know what's happened here is that Dan Abnett has created a military force that sounded cool and unique that advanced the plot of the novel. We also know that it potentially conflicts with other works by other authors about the way the Imperium worked. But with a bit of thought the "conflict" is easily resolved, and a cooler, retconned picture emerges. I actually rather enjoy this process!

So with regard to the Naval Security detachments, what we're left with is this hypothesis:-

(1) Naval security detachments (usually) consist of Stormtroopers.

(2) Normally, on board ship, they are used, as N0-1_H3r3 suggests, as the enforcers of Naval Law, under the control of the ship's commissar.

(3) As such, they are usually outside the regular chain of command of the ship's officers.

(4) However, they may be placed under the direct control of certain Naval officers for certain missions, in the same way that Stormtroopers may be placed under the command of, say, an Imperial Guard colonel.

(5) Sometimes these missions may be quite long term, and Naval security detachments may be assigned to a senior officer (say a Commodore in charge of a subsector's Naval Intelligence) on a permanent or semi-permanent basis.

I think that all follows very logically, and meshes a number of elements both from the Dan Abnett books and the GW and BI background books into one nice, clear pattern. Good stuff!

Lightbringer said:

As i read the story i thought Arbites not normal naval infantry

A ships commissar is the subordinate of the Commodore, as well as an Regimental Commissar is subordinate of the General of the formation his regiment serves.

warpdancer said:

That's a different matter entirely; the Adeptus Arbites, for all their military trappings (up to and including tanks and their own starships - the Arbites operate patrol ships in regions too lightly populated to require a fortified precinct on each world) are not a military organisation - their duties are civil and legal in nature. Military law is not, broadly speaking, their job - because military law is, like local law, distinct from the Lex Imperialis which makes up the whole of the concern of the Adeptus Arbites.

Regional variations may apply, of course, and my previous big post did (or rather, I hope it did) state that while Stormtroopers might be (hypothetically) commonly used in such a role, that isn't a universal truth.

However, many agencies mimic the appearance, tactics and function of the Adeptus Arbites when enforcing other forms of law - it is quite common, for example, for planetary law enforcement agencies (Enforcers, Magistratum, etc) to be patterned after the Adeptus Arbites, much as many Imperial Guard regiments are patterned after Cadian doctrines.

warpdancer said:

Commissars exist outside of the chain of command. They are not subordinate to anyone but (notionally) more senior commissars and the Departmento Munitorum adepts who control all aspects of the Guard, Navy, etc. This is no different to the priests, techpriests and psykers commonly attached to Imperial forces in an advisory/supplementary/supervisory capacity - a preacher is an ordained member of the Adeptus Ministorum, commonly known as the Ecclesiarchy, a Techpriest is an initiated member of the Cult Mechanicus, and a Psyker is a Savant Militant of the Scholastica Psykana, and all operate alongside, rather than within, the normal organisational structure.

Aside from their battlefield role, all have a responsibility to oversee the forces they're attached to. Preachers serve as spiritual advisors to not just the officers, but to the rank and file as well, often performing services and basically providing the same religious structure that the troops would otherwise lack now they're away from home. On a starship, this will invariably be done within the ship's chapels, and there'll be dozens of priests of different kinds in order to minister to the vast numbers of crew, while respecting the divisions of rank, rate and duty, so that the captain and senior officers can attend one sermon, and the junior officers another, while the ratings down on the portside gun decks attend a different one to those in the starboard side gun decks.

Techpriests (as neatly illustrated by the recent novel Gunheads ) are virtually a law unto themselves, especially when higher-ranking Techpriests are involved (Enginseers are, afterall, relatively minor "cogs in the machine"), and except when a mission has some significance to the Mechanicus, are concerned only with the proper maintenance and function of the machines under their supervision.

Psykers, as much as some may be useful battlefield weapons, are more often used to detect the taint of the warp on individuals and advise officers about psychic and aethyric threats to the mission. The details of their duty will be linked to the proficiencies of the psyker - a diviner is much more useful as a strategic advisor than a telekine, who is a better weapon than a telepath, who is in turn an extremely useful means of determining corruption and guilt amongst the men.

Commissars are similar to all these - more similar to them than to the officers they supervise. A Commissar bound within the chain of command is inefficient, because his judgements could be countermanded by more senior officers (this is one of the reasons why the Commissar-Colonel rank does not work - by being required to lead his men, such an officer cannot adequately observe or monitor their activities to perform his duties as a Commissar - and as such the 'honour' of such a rank actually places constraints on the function of a political officer). Consequently, a Commissar cannot be subordinate to a Commodore, a member of the Admiralty or a member of the General Staff, because the oversight would conceivably interfere with his duties. It would be more appropriate for a Regimental Commissar to be subordinate to the Commissar working within the General Staff, much as Commissars policing companies and platoons within a regiment (where a regiment has more than one Commissar) are subordinate to the Regimental Commissar, and similarly for a Ship's Commissar to be subordinate to the Commissar attached to the Commodore or working within the Admiralty, giving a parallel chain of command to that of the officers they're attached to.

That's how I see it, anyway. We have precious little information on the structure of the Commissariat beyond the individual Commissars themselves, and less on how the Commissars function at levels above that of the ship or regiment (because a Regimental Commissar is the highest that we need to consider from the perspective of the wargame; Ship's Commissars don't even have that much of a presence, as their duties are irrelevant to the average game of Battlefleet Gothic)

As ever, I'd say N0-1 has hit the nail on the head here. The Adeptus Arbites are a force I see as primarily a planetary organisation, whose role is to enforce the lex Imperialis and keep planetary governors in line.

Despite the fact that the Naval Security Detachments have a similiar role, I would stress that it is a shipboard role, a very different, and far less politically complex, environment. Having Naval officers, Arbites AND Commissars on board would leave a hugely complicated command structure.

There are other more trivial differences too. Arbites officers have a very different weapons loadout from the Naval Security Detachments described in the Eisenhorn books. They certainly wouldn't be seconded to the command of a Commodore.

Just because the physical description of the Naval Security Detachments somewhat tallies with the physical description of the Arbites, it doesn't mean they're the same thing. And if Dan Abnett wanted them to be arbites, he would have said so!

As N0-1 has said earlier, part of the thing that's good about Abnett's writing is that he is aware of the background, but seeks to create new spaces within it for his stories. Hence new IG regiments with unusual structures (airbourne regiments, regiments headed by Colonel-Commissars), and whole new branches of the Imperial military (Naval Security Detachments.)

As someone else has pointed out on this thread, it's all very well to moan about Abnett's work not fitting the "canon," but people forget that he's a good enough writer to be given the freedom to shape and define the canon. Yes, there may always be inconsistancies here and there, but personally I enjoy the process of reconciling these issues into a sensible whole.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yes that makes a lot of sense, the Guys seemed more Naval security Troops then Naval infantry, and they had access to ships.

I thought the Commissars were part of the Munitorum Chain of Command, their duty is to hold the regiments in line, Generals are part of the munitorum not of the tithed forces, and remember the marschall in one the Gaunt Stories punished a Commissar physically because he counteract his words and ordered a commissar put into his place.

Lightbringer said:

I didn't actually say that about Abnett in particular - indeed, elements he's introduced to the background have as often been because of ignorance (Colonel-Commissars, his inconsistent use of the term "Servitor" as a reference to any form of automata-labourer or robot , and IMO worst, the Navigator-Servitor in Eisenhorn) as anything else. This is more evident in his earlier works than his more recent ones (with the more recent ones, such changes are more often introduced deliberately, as is the case with the various revelations in the Horus Heresy novels, Legion in particular), as is only appropriate as his knowledge of the background would inevitably have increased over time - as it would for anyone in that situation.

warpdancer said:

I'm unfamiliar with the details of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, mainly because I read through the first two and was so put off that I didn't bother picking up any that came after. As I mentioned above, Abnett's earlier novels are, IMO, the worst offenders for his inconsistent knowledge of the background, and his more recent works are much more readable and more consistent. Personally, I wouldn't take anything in one of the Gaunt's Ghosts stories concerning Commissars without a pinch of salt.

As I understand it: A Commissar has no military authority; his role is entirely political - hence the term Political Officer. This works both ways - a Commissar cannot give orders (he doesn't exist within the chain of command), but similarly nor can he be given orders by anyone of purely military authority. In the Imperial Guard, the chain of command stretches right up to the General Staff without stopping, and similarly the Navy chain of command stretches up to the Sector and then Segmentum Admiralty - they're part of the Departmento Munitorum in as much as every man and woman in the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy is part of the Munitorum... but Commissars are deliberately distinct from that because of their role, not because of their affiliation. Afterall, the General Staff have to come from somewhere, and it's from amongst the officer ranks of the tithed regiments that they originate. There isn't some generic third-party pool of Generals for the Departmento Munitorum to pick from...

The problem with having Commissars subject to the authority of any military officers, even admirals and generals, is exactly the example you've presented - it prevents them doing their jobs. If a General is disloyal or otherwise corrupt, and can remove from office any Commissar who gets in the way, then the role of the Commissar is compromised because the Commissars cannot act freely with such a person able to countermand their orders.

That said, the relationship between officer and Commissar is different to that of the one between guardsman or rating and Commissar. Officers are the ones giving the orders, afterall, and require authority - practical authority, not just official authority - in order to see those orders carried out. Consequently, an officer must interact with the supervising Commissar carefully - an order issued that isn't endorsed by a Commissar is an uncertain thing, lacking the approval of the appointed representative of the Emperor, and demonstrates that the officer is reckless or foolish and possible unsuitable to lead the men, which does not inspire confidence in them (because they're just as likely as their officers to get shot if things go awry). This works all the way up the chain of command, and in theory a General or similarly high-ranking officer could convince more senior Commissars to relieve a lesser Commissar of his duties, if he went about it in the right way. At this point, it's a matter of politics, rather than of authority.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

AFAIK this is wrong in the Red Army a Kommissar had the authority to overwrite Orders of his military equivalent, IIRC was the Kommissar the de jure commander of his unit, he could at everytime step in, remove the commanding soldier of the regiment and assume command.

The problem with having Commissars subject to the authority of any military officers, even admirals and generals, is exactly the example you've presented - it prevents them doing their jobs. If a General is disloyal or otherwise corrupt, and can remove from office any Commissar who gets in the way, then the role of the Commissar is compromised because the Commissars cannot act freely with such a person able to countermand their orders.

And it makes great disciplinary and leadership problems, every stupid or stubborn Commissar could and would be a liability extraordinnaire,. the Marschall-Lord Militant must tread carefully and humbly with the paralel commander of one of 100 + Regiments under his command, not all commissars have the strategical skill do estimate such things

To citate

I said no, i will not repeat it

The Generals are Adepts of the Adeptum Munitorum like the commissars themselves, there ends the authority of the troop commissars,

,- an order issued that isn't endorsed by a Commissar is an uncertain thing, lacking the approval of the appointed representative of the Emperor, and demonstrates that the officer is reckless or foolish and possible unsuitable to lead the men, which does not inspire confidence in them (because they're just as likely as their officers to get shot if things go awry). This is not the question i discuss the Adeptum munitorum levels not the tithed regiment levels

warpdancer said:

Correct: stupid and/or stubborn Commissars are an extreme liability, due to the fact that they can have an intelligent, experienced officer executed for disagreeing with them. This fact alone has a negative influence on the IG's command, even if the Commissar in question never actually kills anyone. Officers are afraid to exercise initiative, because if they fail they might displease the Commissar and end up getting killed for their troubles.

So why are commissars given this amount of power, considering the drawbacks? Because the Imperium doesn't care. As far as they are concerned, the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. Remember, the Imperial military was designed after the Horus Heresy. One of the most important duties of the Commissar is to insure the loyalty of the troops. They are watchdogs, keeping an eye on the officers to make sure they don't rebel. Far worse than losing a battle (or even a world) to some xenos or rebbles is the thought of IG or IN traitors turning against the Imperium.

warpdancer said:

Be that as it may, we're not talking about the Red Army... we're talking about the armed forces of the Imperium of Man.

warpdancer said:

It's not their job to be strategists or tacticians. Strategy, tactics and leadership is why the Guard has officers. Commissars are there to make sure that everyone does what they're told and follows the rules. Yeah, they're a liability... but they've been a part of the nature of the armed forces of the Imperium for a hundred centuries, so people tend to accept that they've got to deal with Commissars.

Some forces do it better than others - some regiments tend to be accompanied by several Commissars rather than just one (possibly because those regiments are the closest to the 'ideal' and thus work well as a first posting for a brand new Commissar), while others tend to see far fewer (Commissars attached to regiments of Catachan Jungle Fighters tend to have an abnormally high mortality rate, often suffering fatal 'accidents' in the field; the Catachans themselves, like many Deathworld Veteran regiments, dislike outsiders trying to boss them around, not due to any disloyalty, but because they tend to operate far more effectively when not required to babysit for someone who didn't grow up fending off a thousand kinds of hostile flora and fauna).

warpdancer said:

They're the same thing. The Tithed Regiments belong to, and are part of, the Departmento Munitorum. But that's all irrelevant when you get to a Commissar, because the Commissariat exists outside of the chains of command of the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy - it isn't a matter of whether they're Departmento Munitorum or not, because if you're in the Imperial Guard or the Imperial Navy, then you belong to the Munitorum. This is most clearly pointed out in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, which includes a rough diagram of the chain of command, from the Troopers at the bottom of the scale, up to Warmaster (who are combined Navy/Guard officers - the rank is a rare one, primarily because it grants complete authority over both Guard and Navy, which is an incredible amount of power for one man to have) at the very top. Commissars do not appear anywhere within that chart, and are dealt with seperately, alongside priests and enginseers.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Item #1) Colonel-Commissar issue:

I'm in the same camp as N0-1 regarding the early Gaunt's Ghosts novels. I found the first one nigh unreadable and put it down about a quarter of the way in and haven't read any Abnett since. (As such can't comment on his other works)

I have to give Abnett some small credit on one point specifically articulated in the portion of that one book that I did read. Colonel-Commissar is not a rank of commissar.

What it is is two positions in two separate organizations that happen to be held by the same man. Gaunt was unusual/unique in that he was was both a Commissar AND a Colonel commanding a regiment in the Imperial Guard. He was Colonel Gaunt of the 1st Tanith IG regiment. He was also Commissar Gaunt of the commissariat attached to the 1st Tanith. Colonel-Commissar was just a means of giving him both his titles when addressing him.

Kind of like when an officer (a general for example) also happened to have a knighthood, he was addressed as General Sir Whateverhisnameis. General Sir was not a separate rank/position from general, nor from being a knight, it merely gave both of the individual's titles in his form of address.

The point being you don't become a Commissar and work your way up to the rank of Colonel-Commissar, as Colonel-Commissar (even in Abnett [at least that first book]) is neither a Commissarial nor IG rank. There is no such thing as a Colonel-Commissar. There are Colonels, and there are Commissars, and there is one bastard out there who just happens to be both.

Item #2) - Commissar military authority

It is my understanding that Commissar's also act as military disciplinary authority, conducting courts martial and/or administrating and overseeing punishment for lesser offenses. That implies some military authority even if only in particular context.

Given the Imperium's problems with Chaos corruption and the existence of psyker mind control, possession by warp entities, Enslavers, etcetera, the existence of something like the Commisariat is both inevitable and desirable. The Commissariat's highest duties are maintaining discipline, morale, and justice. The two most devestating events in the history of the IoM were the Horus Heresy and the Reign of Blood, events that were essentially catastrophic internal failures. The Imperium can afford to lose good officers and soldiers from commissar's mistakes in order to minimize the damage that corruption, rebellion, and warp entities can potentially inflict.

DocIII said:

In RT stood, that an Adeptus Arbites could judge an Imperial citizen but another member of the adeptus Terra must or should brought to court and judged there.

Even if an guard member shoot an commissar genera l who was making treason. especially following chaos it would be a legitimate act.

warpdancer said:

You're still making like there's a distinction between the men of Tithed Regiments (who are tithed to the Departmento Munitorum, and consequently the ranks of the Imperial Guard are de-facto Departmento Munitorum ranks) and the senior officers...

There isn't one.

Commissars only perform Summary Executions in battle, for immediate infractions such as cowardice in the face of the enemy. At all other times, a Commissar will enforce the rules and regulations of the Imperial Guard (or Navy, as applicable) in a more thorough and less immediate fashion - though the Commissar is the final judge of the matter. There is a list of rules and regulations in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer (and another, slightly more detailed one in the Munitorum Manual), and while a signficant number of crimes are punishable by execution by a Commissar's sidearm (typically a Bolt Pistol), there is a formal procedure of investigation and judgement and a list of standardised punishments which includes flogging, mandatory retraining, court-martial, temporary incarceration, penal servitude, branding, removal of rank, removal or reduction of food and water rations for a period of time, hanging, flaying, "punishment determined by the appropriate officer" and "death by whatever means the Commissar deems necessary" (the latter being the punishment for desertion - if he locates you fifteen miles away and has an artillery company ready to fire at that moment, he'll shell you).

In short, if you break rules in the middle of a battle, a Commissar is entirely within his rights to execute you - this includes starship captains breaking formation without being ordered to by the battlegroup's commanding officer. But if you're not in combat, you'll be arrested, interrogated (to determine the extent of your crime, and in certain cases to determine if there are any co-conspirators) and then judged - there's a chart in the Imperial Munitorum Manual that details this process. This applies as much to the troopers and NCOs as it does to officers of all ranks.

my early copies of the Gaunts Ghosts novels are not currently in my possession but you are correct about there being an Naval Intelligence officer being in it. I believe it was in the 1st book First and Only. He went by the codename Eagleshard or Eaglethorn. If i recall correctly he had uncovered a conspiracy within the Naval element and needed Gaunts help, them being old aquaintances. my memory is hazy on the details.

there is alot of chatter about what the Imperium is and isn't and ppl referring to canon and the such. i have been around since the original Rogue Trader days and i have seen alot of changes within warhammer 40K. the canon has had a tendency to shift quite a bit depending on whom is currently writing the 40K Armies Books.

on a fluff level, many of you seem to look at the Imperium in a distinct kind of black and white and it isn't not by any means. many of the organizations have a high level of duplication and hence competition. Naval intelligence is not based on Storm Troopers as how a number of ppl here believe. they would fulfill the role of data analysts and covert operators. the gathering of intelligence on enemy troop movements, vessel capabilities, orbital defense platforms etc. One indication of this is actually in the Gaunts Ghosts novels...Tactician Biota. also one must realize the intense rivalry between the imperial navy and the departmento munitorum. its referred to a number of times in various novels. this rivalry would by necessity produce this kind of potential 'doubling' of taskings. one need only look in our real world the overlapping jurisdictions of intelligence agencies and special operations. conflicts and resentments between local law enforcement and national law enforcers when they arrive on scene.

one thing that has been stated right from the beginning is the very vastness of the imperium. the multitudes of cultures and traditions and appearances inherent to its makeup. how the imperial creed is practiced on one world varies from others. how the Emperor is worshipped varies from others. this is allowed by the Ecclesiarchy. the difference in troop types is celebrated by the munitorum. if u look closely at the Imperial Guard..the various units have various traditions and cultures and skills. the Mordians known for their staunchness, the Cadians always battle ready due to their proximity to the eye of terror...harkilon warhawks with jump capabilities, the death corps of krieg willing to lay down their lives in droves for a shame thousands of years past. they will even wield special weapons/heavy weapons depending on what their cultures prefer...others from more savage feral worlds are given a las pistol and a sword.

dan abnett actually has the pulse and spirit of the imperium correctly according to the parameters laid out by games workshop. one must also realize the ruleset and mechanics of the minitaures game by necessity cannot encompass what we can do with an RPG.

even in the Inquisition, there are factions within factions and a multitude of agendas...such to the point that inquistor bands have come to blows and blood for a difference in how they practice their trade.

so make ur naval intelligence officer and any other u choose in the future knowing that , hey, anything can go.

in the Inquistor miniatures game u can find rulesets for incorporating xenos breeds within a war band and that was written by a GW employee.

cheers

Actually, (and I realise I may be flogging a dead horse here) the 'naval intelligence officer/agent' in First and Only (Eagleshard) was working for Crusade Intelligence- the network set up by Warmaster Macaroth (or possibly inherited from Slaydo), to keep an eye upon his various commanders (in this case Lord General Hechtor Dravere). The later mention of Fereyd, Macaroth's spymaster (again, using the Eagleshard callsign) reinforces this. The same book also hints that other members of the Crusade general staff have set up their own networks of intelligence agents. Personally, I believe that this is likely to be duplicated in the various Sector Fleets* of the Imperial Navy, at least as far as HumInt resources go, anyway- the majority will be used for infighting, while SigInt will keep track of enemy shipping and other movements.

As for the Divisio Tactica, I'm fairly certain there are other references, but I believe the first mention was in First and Only; where Fereyd's cover identity was as an attached observer from the Divisio Tactica on Dravere's staff. Later books (beginning with Guns of Tanith iirc) include Tactician Antonid Biota of the Divisio Tactica on Lord General Barthol Van Voytz's staff.

*I will deliberately draw a distinction here between Sector Fleets, Crusade Fleets and Battle Fleets- the older fluff deliberately states that a Battle Fleet is a temporary organisation drawn up to face a specific threat to the Imperial Domains: Battlefleet Gothic was formed to fight the invasion of the Gothic Sector by the forces of Abaddon the Despoiler. It would have been formed primarily from the ships of the Gothic Sector (the Sector Fleet, probably aka the Gothic Fleet), although I believe any CL or heavier visiting or passing through the sector would have been drafted also. At the end of the Gothic War, the Battlefleet would have been dissolved, with its' ships reverting to being merely Gothic Fleet.
A Crusade Fleet is pretty self-explanatory: the ships drawn from the various Sector Fleets of the Crusade's staging 'grounds', for the purpose of prosecuting the Crusade, as it was envisioned and declared by the Senatorum Imperialis. At the end of the Crusade, most of the ships involved would probably revert to their previous Sector Fleets, but I can imagine Segmentum Fleet Command assigning some of them to form the core of a new Sector Fleet (if appropriate).