The Force Pike is a 1 meter long pole (confirmed after checking Wookieepedia, but the art in EotE does not match) that has the same Encumbrance value as a Vibrosword. So why is it a two-handed weapon? It's not strictly better than the Vibrosword (+1 Damage and optional Stun Setting in exchange for Defensive 1 and Vicious 1), and it is less expensive, but I'm still wondering why this weapon needs to be wielded with two hands.

On a side note, why isn't the damage for the Stun Setting a fixed value? It seems odd that the energy discharge that produces the stunning effect is dependent on the strength of the user.

I think the Wookieepedia entry is wrong, or at least incomplete.

The SoroSuub Corporation Controller FP model listed at the end as one of the most popular models has a separate entry at 2m in length. Those are the ones carried by the Imperial Guards.

I think the Wookieepedia entry is wrong, or at least incomplete.

The SoroSuub Corporation Controller FP model listed at the end as one of the most popular models has a separate entry at 2m in length. Those are the ones carried by the Imperial Guards.

Anything that is two meters long, I could not see a humanoid being able to wield reliably, unless it is a Wookie or Droid. Claymores are a 4ft long blade, not including hilt (at their longest) and require two hands to wield. An over 6-ft long staff would be somewhat difficult to one hand.

The Force Pike is a 1 meter long pole (confirmed after checking Wookieepedia, but the art in EotE does not match) that has the same Encumbrance value as a Vibrosword. So why is it a two-handed weapon? It's not strictly better than the Vibrosword (+1 Damage and optional Stun Setting in exchange for Defensive 1 and Vicious 1), and it is less expensive, but I'm still wondering why this weapon needs to be wielded with two hands.

On a side note, why isn't the damage for the Stun Setting a fixed value? It seems odd that the energy discharge that produces the stunning effect is dependent on the strength of the user.

If it is indeed just of 3 feet long, I could see it being a one-handed weapon. Wookieepedia mentions that Forcepikes are polearms which are traditionally two-handed weapons. I just don't understand how something just over 3-feet in length is justifiably a "polearm"..

Probably a typo in the wiki page.

Yeah the Force Pike is used as a polearm, though I suppose if you wanted to house rule that some of the smaller ones could be used instead as a vibro sword or truncheon with stun setting instead of vicious, that'd be fine. However, in the EOTE core rulebook, the force pike pictuerd is clearly a 2 meter polearm. The stats provided are for that weapon. Its a stick, if you want a one handed stick weapon, the truncheon is provided for that, the spirit of the force pike is to be a polearm.

As for your issue with stun setting instead of just giving it, say stun 4, I would tend to agree with you. Another loophole with the force pike? RAW claim that "when weapons with stun setting are used to dela stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased." Range doesn't decrease to short, or decrease two range bands or whatever, it changes to short. The cannot be increased part presumably refers to using the sniper shot talent to increase the range. So your force pike, which should only work at engaged range, now works at short range. So yeah, I'm gonna tend to agree this was a minor oversight. The weapon should probably be designed to deal normal damage and the stun damage in addition. So your brawn +3 for the physical damage, and then +4 stun damage. If you believe in this enough, the Force Pike is in the AOR Beta. I'd suggest making a post in that forum about this, and lobby to get it repaired.

Look at the pictures of guardsmen. It goes from hip to just above the shoulder. That's close to 1 meter. That's also the length listed in EotE.

Giving it Stun 4 rather than Stun Setting would make more sense to me too. I suppose that a one-handed version (the 1m length) doing +2 Damage and having Encumbrance 2 would neatly allow both versions to exist. Should they have the same cost in credits?

Look at the pictures of guardsmen. It goes from hip to just above the shoulder. That's close to 1 meter. That's also the length listed in EotE.

I would hesitate to have a weapon with the name "pike" in it be under 2 meters. Perhaps split the difference and have them at 1.5 meters?

Yeah the Force Pike is used as a polearm, though I suppose if you wanted to house rule that some of the smaller ones could be used instead as a vibro sword or truncheon with stun setting instead of vicious, that'd be fine. However, in the EOTE core rulebook, the force pike pictuerd is clearly a 2 meter polearm. The stats provided are for that weapon. Its a stick, if you want a one handed stick weapon, the truncheon is provided for that, the spirit of the force pike is to be a polearm.

As for your issue with stun setting instead of just giving it, say stun 4, I would tend to agree with you. Another loophole with the force pike? RAW claim that "when weapons with stun setting are used to dela stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased." Range doesn't decrease to short, or decrease two range bands or whatever, it changes to short. The cannot be increased part presumably refers to using the sniper shot talent to increase the range. So your force pike, which should only work at engaged range, now works at short range. So yeah, I'm gonna tend to agree this was a minor oversight. The weapon should probably be designed to deal normal damage and the stun damage in addition. So your brawn +3 for the physical damage, and then +4 stun damage. If you believe in this enough, the Force Pike is in the AOR Beta. I'd suggest making a post in that forum about this, and lobby to get it repaired.

So your saying always use it on stun so you dont have to be engaged? im not clear on this.

Shouldnt the range of a polearm be short anyways? not engaged? i always thought the purpose of a polearm was to have a little distance on your enemy

Yeah the Force Pike is used as a polearm, though I suppose if you wanted to house rule that some of the smaller ones could be used instead as a vibro sword or truncheon with stun setting instead of vicious, that'd be fine. However, in the EOTE core rulebook, the force pike pictuerd is clearly a 2 meter polearm. The stats provided are for that weapon. Its a stick, if you want a one handed stick weapon, the truncheon is provided for that, the spirit of the force pike is to be a polearm.

As for your issue with stun setting instead of just giving it, say stun 4, I would tend to agree with you. Another loophole with the force pike? RAW claim that "when weapons with stun setting are used to dela stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased." Range doesn't decrease to short, or decrease two range bands or whatever, it changes to short. The cannot be increased part presumably refers to using the sniper shot talent to increase the range. So your force pike, which should only work at engaged range, now works at short range. So yeah, I'm gonna tend to agree this was a minor oversight. The weapon should probably be designed to deal normal damage and the stun damage in addition. So your brawn +3 for the physical damage, and then +4 stun damage. If you believe in this enough, the Force Pike is in the AOR Beta. I'd suggest making a post in that forum about this, and lobby to get it repaired.

So your saying always use it on stun so you dont have to be engaged? im not clear on this.

Shouldnt the range of a polearm be short anyways? not engaged? i always thought the purpose of a polearm was to have a little distance on your enemy

The problem with that is Short range goes out way past what is reasonable for a polearm.

The problem with that is Short range goes out way past what is reasonable for a polearm.

Yup, and having that extra reach may not always be a benefit. I would grant boost and setback dice depending upon the situation in combat, the weapons used, and other factors just like anything else to simulate the fact that someone brought a force pike to a vibro-knife fight.

I was listing the range increase as a problem, not a feature....

I read "when weapons with stun setting are used to deal stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased" to mean, "when ranged weapons with stun setting are used to deal stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased."

As for the two-handed thing, isn't the force pike supposed to be a jabbing, poking sort of weapon? I'd want two hands for that kind of action, even if the weapon is only 1m long.

Depends on what wookiepedia article you look at. The regular force pike article states they are a meter, but the SoroSuub Corp Controller FP (carried by the Imperial Guard) are stated to be 2 meters. Even though in the movies they did look about one meter.

Now Crimson Empire has them carrying these:

Which may be where the discrepancy comes from. Personally I like the longer version.

I read "when weapons with stun setting are used to deal stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased" to mean, "when ranged weapons with stun setting are used to deal stun damage, their range changes to short and cannot be increased."

As for the two-handed thing, isn't the force pike supposed to be a jabbing, poking sort of weapon? I'd want two hands for that kind of action, even if the weapon is only 1m long.

Since the weapon is long, I do like toying with the idea of making them better against other melee weapons for their length. I use the "Reach" quality on a bunch of similar weapons on a Fantasy conversion I am doing with this system. It basically gives them Defensive 1 against non-reach Melee weapons and causes people attacking them in short range with melee weapons incur the regular penalties for fighting in engaged, since they still have to be careful due to the unexpected and unpredictable length and danger of the weapon.

I could see the Force Pike having this ability.

This was something that got me wondering , until I looked at the weapon being held by the Emporers Guard , it clearly looks like it is l meant to be held by two hands. Think of a golf club, it is about the same length but to wield it properly you need two hands, these actually don't look far off of being able to be wielded in much the same way, the only difference being the weight at the end.

A jabbing, poking weapon also describes a spear. That said, perhaps it's simply not balanced like a sword. Perhaps the tip is very heavy, making it cumbersome and unwieldy to use in a single hand, at least for stabbing motions. Front-weighted swords are typically meant for slashing.

That said, I would honestly take the movie props and their stated purpose with a grain of salt. The designs for the stated purpose of the weapon often don't make a lot of sense.

There are two types of Force Pikes in play here. It's not all that complicated. The book mixed up the two. I know that the tendency is to cleave to the book like it's a life jacket, but here's what likely happened:

The "pole" version of the pike pictured in the book is the Force Pike as seen in things like Knights of the Old Republic - a two-handed melee weapon used like a staff. This is what they provided stats for. The description in the Force Pike section is reworked from what's already out there (read: Wookieepedia), and it's a description of the one-handed weapon (see: Force Unleashed for use in action) used like a cane (/sword). The book's got a small error in it. No biggie.

If we are using the examples by the Imperial Royal guard. I think it is around 1 to 2 meters in length. Two handed. And mainly used as a defensive weapon. Not a true medieval pike that were LONG. More of a crowd control type thing.

Depends on what wookiepedia article you look at. The regular force pike article states they are a meter, but the SoroSuub Corp Controller FP (carried by the Imperial Guard) are stated to be 2 meters. Even though in the movies they did look about one meter.

Now Crimson Empire has them carrying these:

Which may be where the discrepancy comes from. Personally I like the longer version.

The first picture, I'd say that is more than a metre, more than 3 feet (= approx 1m [90something cm]), but certainly shorter than 2 meter. I hazard a guess at somewhere between 120 to 140 cm, perhaps as much as 150, but probably not. The problem there is the angle, so it becomes harder to gauge the exact length, but from the way he's holding it, it reaches from the middle of to upper half of the thigh and well above his helmet. Also the Guardsman's height is unknown, which makes comparison and gauging even harder. Sadly. So about 1 meter and 20-40 cm is as good a guess I can think of. The hilt is also fairly long - if all that black stuff is the hilt. I think it's a fair size, and two hands would be preferential when wielding that weapon in combat, due to weight and length. I'd think at least.

The second picture isn't a Force Pike, its a double bladed vibrosword - I assume that is Kir Kanos on the picture there. Different weapon all together.

Weird, I've never noticed that the Royal Guard force pikes were so short before!

I remember I had a royal guard as a toy when I was a kid, and he came with a pike that was a little longer than he was tall, so two meters made sense for that, but they are clearly not that big in the movie.

Unless it's significantly heavier than it looks, I agree it's odd that you can't use it one-handed. (Assuming, of course, that the force pike in the book is supposed to be the same weapon the royal guard is equipped with)

If you read up on the Controller FP (the one said to be carried by the Imperial Guard), it is described as 2 meters and a two-handed weapon due to its weight, even though it seems shorter in the movies. But there is a lot of descrepency with this weapon throughout wookiepedia as it is described as being between one and two meters repeatedly. Personally I treat it as 2 meters, two-handed, and looking much as it does in EotE.

...Which may be where the discrepancy comes from. Personally I like the longer version....The first picture, I'd say that is more than a metre, more than 3 feet (= approx 1m [90something cm]), but certainly shorter than 2 meter. I hazard a guess at somewhere between 120 to 140 cm, perhaps as much as 150, but probably not. The problem there is the angle, so it becomes harder to gauge the exact length, but from the way he's holding it, it reaches from the middle of to upper half of the thigh and well above his helmet. Also the Guardsman's height is unknown, which makes comparison and gauging even harder. Sadly. So about 1 meter and 20-40 cm is as good a guess I can think of. The hilt is also fairly long - if all that black stuff is the hilt. I think it's a fair size, and two hands would be preferential when wielding that weapon in combat, due to weight and length. I'd think at least....

With all things considered, that is definitely a two-handed hilt. It reminds me a lot of a Claymore. In any case, if the hilt is that large, we'd have to assume that it is a heavy weapon to swing and would retire two hands to wield effectively. Typically, 1 meter, traditionally, would be the longest a one-handed weapon would be in length. The longest Broadsword/Rapier measures in at 38in.. give a 4-5 in hilt, and that measures in roughly around 43 inches, or the size of a Baseball Bat. This tends to be on the longer end of the spectrum for one-handed blades. 90cm is typically where swords are considered "Long-Swords" and designed for two-hand use. If the Force Pike is 1m in total length, that would put it roughly at 38.5in, which would put it in the longer end of the the one-handed spectrum. Some one handed blades did reach 105cm, but they were more like rapiers, weighing less than around 1.1-2kg. Force pikes seem to weight between 2-7kg as a reference, so that's roughly 5 - 20lbs. With that being said, only the most skilled duelists would be able to use a weapon of that length and weight with one hand.. And maybe a Wookie... Could you imagine swinging or thrusting a baseball bat one handed and hoping that it is an effective weapon? That's basically what we'd be looking at here.

For a thrusting weapon, it could be used similar to a very short lance, or spear I guess, but I'd still consider it to be bludgeoning due to the blunt end. I'm just not sure that thrusting a 1m long blunt weapon is a good use of a force pike. I'd probably laugh at someone trying to thrust a baseball bat at me like a one-handed spear. However, Wookieepedia DOES describe a force pike as a "Stun Pole" and it can be used a "Spear"... So someone thrusting that at me might be a little bit more intimidating.

The second picture isn't a Force Pike, its a double bladed vibrosword - I assume that is Kir Kanos on the picture there. Different weapon all together.

Yes I know, but its length is more in the two-meter range. Strikes me more as a two-bladed glaive-type pole-arm, but that is semantics. I was always fond of glaives.