Over the EotE forums we have lengthy discussed the Gain the Advantage (GtA) pilot action. But truth is that in EotE, in most vehicle combats, the PCs are in a multi-crewed vehicles and then GtA is a pilot action worth considering since another crew member can shoot the vehicle weapons.

I would like to hear the opinion of those who are play-testing the beta of AoR, and find themselves fighting in single-crewed vehicles like the x-wing. What do you think? Is it worth using GtA instead of for example shooting at the target?

Cheers,

Yepes

X & Y wings are multi-crewed - albeit one of the crew is a droid - and there's no clear rules on what an astromech can do.

GTA kills your shot, if you're doing the shooting. And an astromech is not a good pilot (1y pool for a stock one).

So it boils down to this: if you have your next turn's action before the target has his next action, and he has 2+ defense difference, it's possibly worth it.

The Y-Wing 2-seater, it's often worth it. The Gunner can fire the weapons.Pilot does Stay on target and Gain the Advantage, gunner aims and shoots...

There's one other purpose for GTA, tho' - putting yourself out of their arc. If they're in single-seat snubfighters, GTA can put you in their rear arc GTA doesn't say that explicitly, and perhaps it should, but the logic behind that conclusion is this: if you're hitting their rear defensive zone, you' have to be behind them, since you're not allowed to bank shots off nearby rocks. If you're behind them, their front guns can't shoot.

I don't think GtA is worth it if you're in a snubfighter dogfighting TIEs: same defense everywhere and they can always turn on a cred and bring their guns to bear (GtA doesn't prevent them from maneuvering to take a shot it you, just allows you to maneuver to hit them where you want).

If you're attacking larger ships, it is probably worth it to try if they have limited fire arcs or clearly better/worse defenses in some zones. It may at least make them waste an action to angle deflector shields to compensate for you, and that will leave something else open.

The Y-Wing 2-seater, it's often worth it. The Gunner can fire the weapons.Pilot does Stay on target and Gain the Advantage, gunner aims and shoots...

There's one other purpose for GTA, tho' - putting yourself out of their arc. If they're in single-seat snubfighters, GTA can put you in their rear arc GTA doesn't say that explicitly, and perhaps it should, but the logic behind that conclusion is this: if you're hitting their rear defensive zone, you' have to be behind them, since you're not allowed to bank shots off nearby rocks. If you're behind them, their front guns can't shoot.

I'd still argue that, even in a two-seat fighter - you're better off shooting with both the pilot and the gunner (different weapons systems) than GtA and firing once.

As for the second part, I have to disagree. The enemy still gets a chance to fire, but you can put yourself back where you want in time for your own shots. The turns are long enough that there is a great deal of flying going on between turns.

If you're picking which defense aspect you're firing through, you've picked which aspect he's firing out of. GTA, being persistent, has the stated effect of lasting until he makes a GTA action - so it's NOT a "Lot of flying" - it's clearly equated to tailing.

But it does need a clarification on that point, especially in the much more involved battles AoR is going to generate.

If you're picking which defense aspect you're firing through, you've picked which aspect he's firing out of. GTA, being persistent, has the stated effect of lasting until he makes a GTA action - so it's NOT a "Lot of flying" - it's clearly equated to tailing.

But it does need a clarification on that point, especially in the much more involved battles AoR is going to generate.

The rules certainly do not say what you suggest. Nowhere is is states that the other ship is somehow frozen in relation to your ship. You can get into the desired arc to line up your shots and continue to do so consistently for as long as you wish or until the other ship counters GtA. However, that doesn't mean the other ship isn't also flying about and turning on you - it just means that despite those attempts, you can get back to where you want to take your shots from.

You can get into the desired arc to line up your shots and continue to do so consistently for as long as you wish or until the other ship counters GtA. However, that doesn't mean the other ship isn't also flying about and turning on you - it just means that despite those attempts, you can get back to where you want to take your shots from.

It doesn't say that at all, either. It doesn't even imply that they can get you in the arc of their choice without a successful GTA.

"It allows a pilot to gain the upper hand on a single opponent so that he positions himself for a better attack..." does imply being out of arc. Being where you can't be shot at is axiomatically a better attack than one where one is under fire.

It says nothing about the opponent still being able to shoot at you. For or against.

It does say the user picks into which arc his shots are landing - but the weapons are essentially line of sight, and fire straight, so logic dictates that if I'm shooting in your rear arc, I'm in your rear arc, or reasonably close to it - your forward weapons should not logically bear. (Your side arc weapons might.)

Nowhere does the game give the right to always have a target in arc.

I don't have the book in front of me, so am going off vague memories, but if't you use your gain the advantage to get behind them and fire at their rear arc. It's then their turn, so they use a maneuver to turn around and an action to fire on you. Your turn then comes up and assuming you still have the "advantage" you don't have to waste a maneuver to turn around and get behind them, you are assumed to be able to jig around and get your shot off on their rear again.

That's how I read it anyway. You have the advantage, but you don't have the sole superiority of the spaceways so the badguy can not shoot at you again.

The issue could definetly use some clarification. GtA is a bit confusing.

Double Post

Aramis, I get where you are coming from, I do. But you are so focused on logical definitions that you're missing the actual mechanical effects and how they are applied to play.

See the mechanics don't define what fire arc a ship is in, the narrative does that (pg 235, column 1 paragraph 2). The fire arcs are there largely for that narrative, as a way to explain why you missed that last shot ("Gee, I guess you didn't get the ship turned around fast enough to get a clear shot") or why the star destroyer doesn't just fire every gun it has at a single target.

Consider these questions:

1) You have Gained the Advantage. What if your target's deflectors are on double back? Are you going to stick by that you are literally on their tail and accept the fact that despite "having the advantage" you're going to have to have your shots land in the rear fire arc?

2) A TIE Fighter Gained the Advantage on you. Can you "Stay on Target" on him without countering his GtA first? What in the rulebook supports your conclusion?

3) You are in a Wayfarer and a TIE has the Advantage on you. Instead of accepting your fate, you say "I try and swing this pregnant bantha of a ship around and and get a lucky shot on the jerk!" What does the GM tell you to roll?

See by (pg 235, column 1 paragraph 2) you certainly could make the argument that you and your GM agree that that GtA puts you on the target's tail, but then you bump into the weird conundrum Question 1 presents.

Or you can decide that GtA is less of an actual position in space and more a state of dynamic interaction between two spacecraft, and try and swing that Wayfarer around. Yeah, you'll probably fail to land a single hit, and probably generate some Threat that manifest as bonus dice on the TIE pilot's next gunnery roll, but hey, that's what happens when you try to dogfight in 737...

EDIT: Realized I stated and EotE page location in the AoR forum. Narrative being the method of defining ship positions is on AoR Beta Pg 168, Column 1, Paragraph 2 for those of you that don't have EotE...which is probably nobody...

Ghostofman gets it.

The squad leader talent tree has the ability "Form on me". It allows allies in close range to gain the benefits of Gta when the character successfully performs the action on his target. If you're attacking a frieghter or larger target it's definitely a useful tactic, and the pilot only forfits his attack on the current round of combat.