So... a Wayfarer is Silhouette 5. This means the pilot can't use ANY Maneuvers listed in the Core book since they are ALL for Silhouette 4 and under.

In addition, under Actions such as "Gain the Advantage" it says that if a pilot gains the advantage they can move wherever they want to fire from and they stay there until the target pilot's turn, when he/she can attempt to gain the advantage on THEM.

So.... How the heck does this work if the target is a Wayfarer and Gain the Advantage only works for silhouette 4 and under?!?

From what it sounds like, I could sic 2 fighters on the party, have them both "gain the advantage" and if successful they would be behind the Wayfarer.

The Wayfarer also has ONE quad-laser facing forward... so that means it can't defend itself, it can't gain the advantage, it can't do ANYTHING other then get shot from behind.

How is this a) cinematic or b) fair to the PCs?

I guess the players could always hit the forward thrusters and try to force the TIEs to fly into their exhaust...?

The simple solution is to give them a modified Wayfarer that has some sort of aft gun.

Outside of Increasing/decreasing the ships speed, you are correct Sil 5+ ships are heavily restricted in what they can do in combat. The restriction is largely reflective of larger, bulkier vehicles having so great a mass that they cannot easily manuver.

Persons piloting Sil 5+ ships cannot attempt the Gain the Advantage action. If a smaller ship succeeded in GtA vs a Wayfarer, the Wayfarer would have no method of countering it.

As for cinema goes there are several examples that I am sure others will post, but the cinema is largely up to you and your group. As far as fairness is concerned, I'm not sure I understand the question. The restriction is applied to all ships of Sil 5+, regardless of who controls them. The PC's are not required to take the Wayfarer, and frankly even if they did I would recommend they increase their armament rather quickly. Bulk cargo hauling vehicles are not designed to be combat capable.

How is a group of desperate criminals flying an unresponsive whale of a freighter trying to outrun nimble, better-armed law enforcement not cinematic? That's the stuff climactic scenes are made of!

If you're the players, and the group has a Wayfarer, you never want to get into ship-to-ship combat. You always want to have a plan to avoid it, whether it's a trip through an asteroid field or the busy air-traffic of Coruscant, the bomb in the hangar bay that grounds the enemy's fighters just as you're getting away, or the ship upgrades to speed or shields that let your expert navigator plot the jump to your nav point.

If you're the GM, then you probably don't want to get into a situation where the choices are limited to A) beat up the opposing starfighters, or B) become space dust. Give them an escape route. Have the enemy use tractor beams or ion cannons. Give them opportunities to slice the enemy computers and make that razor's edge getaway.

If the group has a Wayfarer, they probably have it for a reason (loads of cargo, I'm betting). Both the players and GM should keep that reason, and the limitations of the craft, in mind when they are co-creating the adventures.

If the group has a Wayfarer, they probably have it for a reason (loads of cargo, I'm betting). Both the players and GM should keep that reason, and the limitations of the craft, in mind when they are co-creating the adventures.

They're actually a rock band running away from a criminal organization, the Empire, and some bounty hunters on Coruscant. They gotta get some gigs (legal and illegal) to pay off their debt Their ship is filled with band equipment, roadies and a few fans.

Have an Outlaw Tech they meet in the next Cantina they visit offer to upgrade their quad gun to a turret. If they don't have enough credits maybe the Tech has something he needs "taken care" of. Problem solved.

So the goal of the opponents would likely be to take them alive. Tractor beams/ion cannons. Pursuing starfighters would have the goal of disabling sublight and hyperdrive, not destroying the ship. Capture/boarding continues the story. Shooting them into dust doesn't.

That is a really big ship. It's like expecting a 18 wheeler to drift race.

If the party wants a ship that handles combat better, then they should get a leaner ship. Otherwise, they should accept that their tour bus isn't a Lamborghini (or even an SUV).

In addition, under Actions such as "Gain the Advantage" it says that if a pilot gains the advantage they can move wherever they want to fire from and they stay there until the target pilot's turn, when he/she can attempt to gain the advantage on THEM.

Nope!

Gain the advantage allows you to ignore evasive maneuvers and pick the defensive arc you want your hits to land. That's all. It does not say where you are in relation to the target. So even if the TIE gain the advantage, the Wayfarer pilot can still swing around and engage them. He won't be "Gaining the advantage" and get the associated bonuses, but he can still shoot at them.

In addition, under Actions such as "Gain the Advantage" it says that if a pilot gains the advantage they can move wherever they want to fire from and they stay there until the target pilot's turn, when he/she can attempt to gain the advantage on THEM.

Nope!

Gain the advantage allows you to ignore evasive maneuvers and pick the defensive arc you want your hits to land. That's all. It does not say where you are in relation to the target. So even if the TIE gain the advantage, the Wayfarer pilot can still swing around and engage them. He won't be "Gaining the advantage" and get the associated bonuses, but he can still shoot at them.

I was going to make this exact point, but Ghostofman beat me to it. GtA means you pick where your shots hit. It doesn't mean the attacking ship stays perpetually in that fire arc. Combat is narrative, and rounds last for up to a minute - plenty of time for even a sluggish ship like the Wayfarer to roll over and snap off a shot at the attacker.

As GM i would have replaced the quad front laser with 2 twin laser turrets for gunners so other non-pilots have something to do

also note, that since its silhouette 5 it gets an even bigger penalty when trying to hit fighters that are silhouette 3, its hard check instead of average like a silhouette 4 light freighter would have been

There needs to be more love for the wayfarer in this thread. I like to think of it as that non-lethal UAV from "Mystery Men". It's mostly harmless, but it has potential.

You have three stock starting choices in EotE.

Firespray - A car - fast and agile, very limited cargo space.

YT-1300 - A van - Not quite as maneuverable, but still decent and holds pretty good cargo. The A-Team does pretty well in their van.

Wayfarer - Semi Truck - It moves forward, and turns...slowly. It holds lots of space, but not the ship to take if you're planning on a lot of space combat (unless you're tricking it out to be a fighter carrier)

A rock band would probably be just fine in a YT-1300. They actually have a lot of room, and can be easily configured for passengers rather then cargo.

A wayfarer is 82 meters, that's nearly the length of an American Football field (about 90ish yards) If you want to go with the wayfarer I'd add some guns quick, and beef up the engines to the max for a quick exit strategy. Your best strategy in a fight is to run and fire at the things that (hopefully) stay behind you.

Han Solo "She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

Watch your mouth, kid, or you’re gonna find yourself floating home! We’ll be safe enough once we make the jump to hyperspace. Besides, I know a few maneuvers. We’ll lose ‘em.

"Uh, that was your maneuver? Moving slightly to the left?"

If we want cinematic, how about some heavy repeating blasters / light laser cannons set up in the airlocks? Wouldn't do much to things larger than fighters, but I really enjoy the idea of players being creative enough to take a risky action like that. Also, I can think of few things more totally awesome.

In addition, under Actions such as "Gain the Advantage" it says that if a pilot gains the advantage they can move wherever they want to fire from and they stay there until the target pilot's turn, when he/she can attempt to gain the advantage on THEM.

Nope!

Gain the advantage allows you to ignore evasive maneuvers and pick the defensive arc you want your hits to land. That's all. It does not say where you are in relation to the target. So even if the TIE gain the advantage, the Wayfarer pilot can still swing around and engage them. He won't be "Gaining the advantage" and get the associated bonuses, but he can still shoot at them.

Ah, awesome. Thanks that makes sense and can make combat work better-er

To be fair, the book specifically says that the Wayfarer is not an optimal choice if someone in the crew wants to be the hotshot pilot, because the Wayfarer is not the ship to let the character do that.

Split Light has it exactly right: in the context of the Star Wars universe, if starships are automobiles, the Wayfarer is a semi-truck. It's a big, bulky, slow, non-maneuverable cargo hauler.

Your X-Wings and TIE Fighters are your motorcycles who will literally fly circles around that thing, and your Firespray is the tricked-out sportscar (with guns).

The Wayfarer doesn't need to be "fixed," nor do the rules need to be changed to allow the Wayfarer to do something that it's a) incapable of doing and b) not remotely intended to do.

Mounting a pair of turrets on the Wayfarer gives it some much-needed all-around defense, and it's not all that expensive (if you need to save some credits, remove and remount the forward-mounted Quad Laser Cannon). I'd also suggest the Advanced Targeting Array since it just gets better and better with more weapons (it improves them all!). Accept that it will never benefit from great piloting, and don't bother trying to improve Speed (a better hyperdrive is nice though).

Mounting a pair of turrets on the Wayfarer gives it some much-needed all-around defense, and it's not all that expensive (if you need to save some credits, remove and remount the forward-mounted Quad Laser Cannon). I'd also suggest the Advanced Targeting Array since it just gets better and better with more weapons (it improves them all!). Accept that it will never benefit from great piloting, and don't bother trying to improve Speed (a better hyperdrive is nice though).

I'm going to allow the pilot to make opposed piloting checks though... if the Wayfarer pilot beats the 'faster target' then he'll be able to swing his ship in the right direction to allow the gunner to fire his forward mounted quad-laser. The players will have to time things correctly because if they don't chose Initiative slots next to each other and the NPC has a chance they can try to do an opposed pilot test to move out of the way.

btw, i haven't gotten to that part of the book yet (I don't think), if I add a new weapon/turret, etc. a mechanic (player OR NPC) has to install it, if they mess up their mechanics check then that weapon can no longer be added, or modded, etc, correct? Or can you keep trying till you get your roll (which would be weird)?

btw, i haven't gotten to that part of the book yet (I don't think), if I add a new weapon/turret, etc. a mechanic (player OR NPC) has to install it, if they mess up their mechanics check then that weapon can no longer be added, or modded, etc, correct? Or can you keep trying till you get your roll (which would be weird)?

Attachments do not require a roll. They are designed to be added on readily and without issue.

Modifications are tweaks you make to attachments. In this case, if you fail the roll, you can't try to add that modification again (other modifications are fair game); if you roll Despair, the attachment itself is ruined.

Maybe the "problem" stems from the fact that the default weapon installed on the Wayfarer (as per RAW) makes no sense considering the nature and limitations of the vessel?

If it was a turret instead of forward fixed, this conversation would have a very different tone.

I'd just make it a quad turret laser cannon and get on with blasting those persky pirates/Imperials/rival metal-heads

Maybe the "problem" stems from the fact that the default weapon installed on the Wayfarer (as per RAW) makes no sense considering the nature and limitations of the vessel?

If it was a turret instead of forward fixed, this conversation would have a very different tone.

I'd just make it a quad turret laser cannon and get on with blasting those persky pirates/Imperials/rival metal-heads

I've suggested such a change before and I think that it makes the most sense for this ship.

Maybe the "problem" stems from the fact that the default weapon installed on the Wayfarer (as per RAW) makes no sense considering the nature and limitations of the vessel?

If it was a turret instead of forward fixed, this conversation would have a very different tone.

I'd just make it a quad turret laser cannon and get on with blasting those persky pirates/Imperials/rival metal-heads

I've suggested such a change before and I think that it makes the most sense for this ship.

It does make the most sense, but I get the feeling that the devs wanted something to upgrade on every ship.

For the Firespray you want to get a bigger gun, that autoblaster can't do much damage against heavily armored foes. For the YT-1300 you want to increase the engine speed so it can get the full range of pilot manuevers. For the Wayfarer you want to convert that awesome gun to a turret.

Not making the ship perfectly satisfactory right from when the players get it keeps them hungry for upgrades and I think makes for a more enjoyable game since there is a measurable amount of growth.

Maybe the "problem" stems from the fact that the default weapon installed on the Wayfarer (as per RAW) makes no sense considering the nature and limitations of the vessel?

If it was a turret instead of forward fixed, this conversation would have a very different tone.

I'd just make it a quad turret laser cannon and get on with blasting those persky pirates/Imperials/rival metal-heads

I've suggested such a change before and I think that it makes the most sense for this ship.

It does make the most sense, but I get the feeling that the devs wanted something to upgrade on every ship.

For the Firespray you want to get a bigger gun, that autoblaster can't do much damage against heavily armored foes. For the YT-1300 you want to increase the engine speed so it can get the full range of pilot manuevers. For the Wayfarer you want to convert that awesome gun to a turret.

Not making the ship perfectly satisfactory right from when the players get it keeps them hungry for upgrades and I think makes for a more enjoyable game since there is a measurable amount of growth.

Even with the Quad Laser Cannon changed to a turret, there is still a great deal of room to improve the Wayfarer. Considering its crew size, expect a number of additional weapon mounts to turn it into a light gunship. Having one turret hardly gets you to an ideal point.

Maybe the "problem" stems from the fact that the default weapon installed on the Wayfarer (as per RAW) makes no sense considering the nature and limitations of the vessel?

If it was a turret instead of forward fixed, this conversation would have a very different tone.

I'd just make it a quad turret laser cannon and get on with blasting those persky pirates/Imperials/rival metal-heads

I've suggested such a change before and I think that it makes the most sense for this ship.

It does make the most sense, but I get the feeling that the devs wanted something to upgrade on every ship.

For the Firespray you want to get a bigger gun, that autoblaster can't do much damage against heavily armored foes. For the YT-1300 you want to increase the engine speed so it can get the full range of pilot manuevers. For the Wayfarer you want to convert that awesome gun to a turret.

Not making the ship perfectly satisfactory right from when the players get it keeps them hungry for upgrades and I think makes for a more enjoyable game since there is a measurable amount of growth.

Even with the Quad Laser Cannon changed to a turret, there is still a great deal of room to improve the Wayfarer. Considering its crew size, expect a number of additional weapon mounts to turn it into a light gunship. Having one turret hardly gets you to an ideal point.

I agree, I don't think it gets it to the ideal point, its just a starting point for that first upgrade players should do. My ideal wayfarer has two turrets, a nicely modified hangar bay, a missile launcher, and some upgraded shields.

My point was that the closer as a GM you take a ship to being complete, the less there is for the players to do for themselves.