Road To Legend's Advanced Campaign has *really* brought to life to Descent and I started thinking, is such a thing possible for Doom: The Boardgame? An 'overland' map of the Galaxy, traveling to different sections, encountering different installations, etc. Without Gold and specialized items though (i.e. Treasures) would a long-term game be viable? And what would the end game be? A trip down into Hell? Maybe make that part of the 'overland' map?

Thoughts?

-shnar

God i so wish this was done.

I have ideas about this, but motivation is lacking

I've thought about doing something very similar. Also, updating Doom with some ideas from Descent in general. I may get around to that someday, but first I'd like to see Descent fixed up a bit, either by me or FFG (to wait for FFG would be waiting for D2e.)

For starters, though, a Doom campaign setting would have an overland map of Mars (and maybe an expansion for Earth >=D), not a map of the galaxy. If you want to keep it true to the video games, you have to acknowledge that the plot is centered on Mars, it's not a typical sci-fi "all across the galaxy" setting.

Really? Just stick to Mars? I know that's a bit more thematic to the video game, but is it really? I mean, with the advanced tech they had in the game, who's to say they didn't colonize a few more planets around. I wasn't picturing a vast galaxy swath, but I was figuring a few star systems (like maybe Starfarers of Catan look).

I've been brainstorming on this all day (detailed post at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3292627 ) and most of my thoughts have been along the lines of a larger universe than just Mars. I'd have to rethink a lot to keep it zeroed in on Mars...

Also, while some of the additions in Descent are nice, I think they'd muddy up the game of Doom too much, so I'm trying to stick with base+expansion as much as possible, and not introduce new rules/ways-to-play.

-shnar

I would love to see something like this for Doom. Just FYI, I've also been working on a new Doom Campaign...it'll be six linked scenarios. I've got the first four scenarios completed. I'm play testing now and finishing the last two scenarios. It's actually a fairly large scenario. If any of you have played my Doom Scenario Congo , or any of my Descent Scenarios ( Death Stalks in Starlit Halls, Crypt of the Vampire, and Temple of the Ape God ), you know I make big, 6+ page scenarios. So, the scenarios in the campaign I'm making are all quite big. The campaign does not take place on Mars, either. It is called Jupiter Rising and it will take the marines from derelict starships to hidden asteroid bases to the moons of Jupiter. Anyway, give me another month or so, and I'll post it on boardgame geek. I'll let you know when it's done.

I'd love to see more custom levels for Doom, can't wait to see them

I've posted up two more thoughts about an Advanced Campaign on http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3292627 . I am definately modelling this after Road To Legend, since I love the shorter "levels" of a dungeon, as well as the long progression of "heroes" and want something similar in Doom. I posted ideas for Marine Advancement called "Accommodations", as well as the Galaxy Map progression through "Corruption".

Take a look and help me refine this

-shnar

Two elements I'd like to somehow incorporate into Doom from Descent...fatigue and no ammo. Ammo management in Doom can get tedius, and if you just get some rotten, ammo burnin' dice rolls, you can be SOL half-way through a mission. I know ammo management is incorporated into the computer game, but really, I've played Doom 3 and Doom 3 ROE, and having ammo was never a problem. There were instances where I ran out of plasma, for example, but I always had plenty of another type of ammo to fall back on. Many times while playing Doom TBG, I've had to resort to pistol, even when using an extra ammo mod. The chainsaw in Doom TBG, however, is one of the best weapons, IMHO. Unless you roll a miss, you can be surrounded by some goons and cut loose, shredding everything around you with a single roll. Love the chainsaw.

The fatigue tokens in Descent would be awesome in Doom. They basically allow you to make extra moves. I can think of many instances in Doom where this would've come in handy...easily being the difference between being fragged or wasting an invader. I think if they did a version of Doom similer to Descent RtL, then these two elements (the two I just suggested) should somehow be incorporated.

The goal of this is to not mod Doom and make it more Descent like, the goal is to create an "Advanced Campaign", an extended play that slowly progresses the Marines and Invader's power over many sessions. I personally don't like Fatigue, as it adds a layer of complexity that isn't necessary for Doom. It works for Descent, but I don't think it would fit for Doom. Also, I love Ammo, though I do agree sometimes seems to burn fast. Which is why I think the mod I'm coming up wiht might address this (shorter levels, ability to Restock, etc).

I've got most my thoughts of an Advanced Campaign on the BGG board, will be spending the weekend fleshing things out.

-shnar

shnar said:

Well, you can do whatever you like, of course. IMO, keeping things focused on Mars/Earth/Hell is an important aspect of the Doom setting. Maybe expand it to the solar system if you have to, but I wouldn't even go that far myself.

An important aspect of almost any Horror story is the denial of resources, which keeps the heroes fighting an uphill battle and thus keeps things tense and scary. If you take things out into the wider world, it becomes harder and harder to believe that the heroes can't find help with ease. I mean, sure they have space ships in the game, but notice how the marine hero never seems to come across a working one? If he could escape Mars, then he could get help, bring in the army or at the very least find a decent amount of ammo for his weapons. Then the story becomes less horror and more action. If I were playing in a Doom campaign that stretched across star systems, I'd be asking the other players why there's never any ammo on any of the planets we land on, or for that matter, any significant population. If we had control of the ship, I'd be recommending we make a bee line for the nearest Ammo-Mart or something. What, did Hell's invaders hit every planet in the galaxy simultaneously? That kind of destroys the whole "scientists experimenting with teleportation between Mars and Earth accidentally open a gateway to Hell" theory, which is basically the entire plot to Doom, since it makes it decidedly unlikely that the teleportation experiment was the cause.

So yes, I would keep it limited to an overland Mars map. Maybe an "expansion" map to Earth or Hell later on. That's just my opinion though, no one says you have to listen.

No, that makes sense, and I was coming up with ways to address that in the campaign. Firstly, I didn't want an expansive map, I was thinking our Solar System (so Mars, moons of Jupiter, asteroids, etc), and maybe one or two neighboring ones, but that's about it. Colonized planets would restock Marines and the ship, but by a limited amount based on their 'rank' as well as the planet's own stock ability.

I suppose I just keep thinking if it's limited to Mars, it changes the scope of what I was imagining. I guess not too dramatically, since mechanics would be the same, just the theme is altered. Take a look at how I was imagining Corruption (over on BGG). Would it fit as well if the map was the surface of Mars with different installation sites? How should that be altered? etc.

Thanks for the input though, I love getting something like this going

-shnar

My own plan for an "RtL Doom" (you'll have to forgive the blending of Doom and Descent if you dislike that idea) was to use screenshots of the moons from the original Doom to create the overland maps. I've been writing up a chain of quests that mimic (but don't entirely replicate) the marines working their way across Phobos and Deimos as in the original video game. But also updated so it's like an alternate storyline that takes place parallel to the Doom 3 storyline down on the surface.

That was started before RtL was released though, so the quest set up was more like the original quest guides used by both Doom and Descent.

That sounds like a fun campaign, even if it's more on the traditional side. The biggest difference between the 'normal' campaign and the 'advanced' campaign is how linear they are. The normal campaign is *very* linear, assumes you are playing every mission in order, and IMHO the replayability is limited because of it (i.e. about the same game every time you play). The advanced campaign is very non-linear. Marines can go to various different places, upgrades will greatly vary between games, Invader will corrupt the map differently, etc. all adding to higher replayability, though at the cost of a more random experience (which may seem less thematic or story-driven).

They're both good I think, just different styles of play. I'd love to see a set of missions that follows the overall theme of the games, so can't wait to see what you've got

-shnar

By the way I would love to playtest/help if I can!

An advanced campaign will make doom fantastic

1 fanatical playtester reporting for duty

Sweet! I'll probably upload most of my stuff over on BGG (as you saw) and announce it here, but love any help I can get

-shnar

I would actually sooner add ammo to descent than remove ammo from doom. I love the scarce resource theme, without it, Doom would not be Doom.

A campaign for Doom like RTL would be difficult I think. A very different setting and game. No towns, no money, and what evil avatar? Hrm. A lot of changes would be necessary to the basic story I think. But if it works, It could be sweet!

Scy800 said:

I agree 100%. Without the limited resources on ammo, Doom loses a big part of the flavour that makes it so much fun.

When I said that I was working on an RtL Doom kitbash, I didn't mean that I was mindlessly converting everything to Descent rules. I'm using some ideas from Descent that I feel improve and expand gameplay, (for example I have actual equipment cards drawn up for the Doom weapons) but the focus still remains on keeping the bleak Doom-style atmosphere. Those cards I mentioned also provide a small bonus to the attack when ammo is spent, sort of like surges in Descent - you still lose ammo which might leave you punching imps in the face for a while, but at least that last attack did something special.

Don't worry, my focus on this is to create the same long-term build up you get in RtL but using as much as possible the core rules in Doom. Very little will be altered Rules wise, more just enhanced to fit the campaign.

And it's actually not too difficult to and yet still stay in-theme. The main mechanical components are:

- Overland Map with 8 major locations and 30 minor locations
- Overland activities (i.e. travel, rest/recoup/encounters/etc)
- 40 small maps (i.e. dungeons) for the 30 minor locations
- An upgrade path for Marines and Invader
- An end-game after all this buildup

The trickiest part of all this for me has been designing the overland map. Originally, I had thought about making it a 'galaxy map', where the main travel was in a space ship between planets, space stations, asteriods, etc. ALL of the mechanics from RtL fit *very* nicely in this scenario, plus a few custom ones that fit the Doom theme. However, as seen on BGG, a lot of players feel that increasing the scope that much ruins the theme of Doom, so I'm trying to alter the map to just be the installation on Mars from Doom3. But there's a lot that's not fitting in that scope (mainly the passage of time, doesn't make sense in such a small area). So now I'm altering it to be all the sites from the different Doom games (except maybe Earth) and that feels a little better with time passage and training, etc.

This is completely doable, and really exciting working on it. I just hope people like it

-shnar

Keep up the good work man, This is going to be awesome

Nice idea about the surge like thing Steve-O. But I think I would than go with a surge like dice with only certain weapons I think. My marines tend to throw bullets a lot, don't need so many special effect. Think it should just be ammo usage... and with a small chance at, for example a head shot on a surge. Or the target catching fire or something like that.

I am eager to see what you come up with Shnar. Good luck with it!