Unlike with ranged weapons, where having high Agility is useful but not necessary to do good damage due to you always taking highest of skill/characteristic for your role, and the damage being based solely on the weapon, brawl and melee attacks favor NEEDING high brawn to really work well.

What do you think the ramifications would be of switching your melee/brawl base damage to Brawn OR your Skill.

(Also, do you think giving the Vibro-Axe Cumbersome 3 would be out of line? This way you still require a bit of strength to use the heaviest hitter of the melee weapons)

I think I'm against it just on the grounds that raising a characteristic takes a lot more experience than raising a skill. Although the option will be there to use either, more often then not a melee player will focus on upgrading their skill to easily get more damage.

I'm against it because melee is so powerful already. You still get extra damage for successes. The only issue I see is players who don't spend exp to increase their melee abilities and then complain melee isn't that strong.

Let me tell you make a melee character and you'll see how powerful it is. Yes you have to spec for it but that's what makes great.

Make a Wookie brawl 4 hired gun marauder with a vibroaxe and you'll see the power of the melee.

Yes, but at current the only way to get melee damage anywhere near comparable to ranged is to be a hulking brute.

There are no mods for melee weapons that give more damage, the most damaging one in the book is brawn +3, meaning even the biggest brute only has 9 damage, 10 if he dips into cybernetics. The only way to get REALLY high is getting into careers with the +melee damage talents, but lets not ignore that other careers get Point Blank for ranged.

Think about it, even at max skill a vibrosword would still only be doing 7 base damage without talents to boost it. Thats a heavy blaster pistol.

Yes, but at current the only way to get melee damage anywhere near comparable to ranged is to be a hulking brute.There are no mods for melee weapons that give more damage, the most damaging one in the book is brawn +3, meaning even the biggest brute only has 9 damage, 10 if he dips into cybernetics. The only way to get REALLY high is getting into careers with the +melee damage talents, but lets not ignore that other careers get Point Blank for ranged.Think about it, even at max skill a vibrosword would still only be doing 7 base damage without talents to boost it. Thats a heavy blaster pistol.

However, a vibrosword is pierce 2 so that in most cases is 9 damage and don't forget the 1 defense

You also have to take into consideration that pretty much all the melee weapons except the blunt ones have 2 pierce to start off with and more can be gained through attachments and modding. The only damage boost you could possibly get is through superior weapon attachment.

Melee weapons also start off with other useful stuff beyond pierce.

With melee you can't just look at the raw damage.

For me, and this is just really my personal take, I don't want (non-Jedi) melee to be "on par" with ranged combat in a science fiction setting with blaster rifles and lightsabers. Anyone can pick up a blaster pistol and be dangerous, but it should take a lot of hard work to be competent in melee in that sort of setting.

IMHO.

That said, if you do put in that time, dedication and focus (and xp) you should ultimately be able to be good at it. But it should take extra special work. In short: I like that melee is tied to a high brawn. That models the effort needed to be a focused melee specialist well enough, for me.

Of course, if you want close combat to play a more prominent role in your games, "evening the playing field" might be a good way to go about it and I could see the offered suggestion work towards that. At the end of the day it would take some playtesting to see how it works out.

You also have to take into consideration that pretty much all the melee weapons except the blunt ones have 2 pierce to start off with and more can be gained through attachments and modding. The only damage boost you could possibly get is through superior weapon attachment.

Melee weapons also start off with other useful stuff beyond pierce.

With melee you can't just look at the raw damage.

You also have to take into consideration that pretty much all the melee weapons except the blunt ones have 2 pierce to start off with and more can be gained through attachments and modding. The only damage boost you could possibly get is through superior weapon attachment.

Melee weapons also start off with other useful stuff beyond pierce.

With melee you can't just look at the raw damage.

While looking beyond just the raw damage, remember too that you'll never have a Difficulty 1 melee attack. With ranged attacks at short range, you can get there rather easily.

I just find it amusing that in a Genre that has mostly has laser weapons, we are concerned about melee. In the movies iirc the only melee fights involve Lightsabers, or Ewoks

I have spent 12 years in the Martial arts, Tae Kwon Do, Philipino Stick fighting, Okinawan weapons. Hitting something is a lot more different then HURTING something. to hurt something you need strength, you need that weight behind the punch, kick, slice or stab.

Speed or high agility might look good, and add a cinematic feel, but your not really going to be hurting someone much unless you are using some sort of aid to increase your damage

Both brawl and melee have their uses, and it is incorrect to say that ranged in inherently better, with the correct cybernetics and armor brawn can be increased from a base of four to seven, and anyone who has used blast knuckles with a brawl skill of 5 will tell you that brawl can be just as deadly as ranged (If not better).

I just find it amusing that in a Genre that has mostly has laser weapons, we are concerned about melee. In the movies iirc the only melee fights involve Lightsabers, or Ewoks

I have spent 12 years in the Martial arts, Tae Kwon Do, Philipino Stick fighting, Okinawan weapons. Hitting something is a lot more different then HURTING something. to hurt something you need strength, you need that weight behind the punch, kick, slice or stab.

Speed or high agility might look good, and add a cinematic feel, but your not really going to be hurting someone much unless you are using some sort of aid to increase your damage

So in your "stick fighting" they did not teach that your strikes are to vulnerable points & nerve endings? When struck on a nerve ending it does not take strength to make it hurt. Learned that by studying Kali.

Something that has been absent from this discussion, AFAICT, is the Deadly Accuracy talent. That is how you add your skill ranks to a chosen combat skill's damage. In this way, the Assassin can outstrip the Marauder for melee damage. So you can have your cake and eat it, too

If you're doing this with Brawl, take it a step farther and buy into the Doctor talent tree for Pressure Point. Now you're adding Brawl + Medicine to your damage and ignoring Soak.

Then you can be like Elliot from Leverage. Guns? Don't need guns. Don't like guns.

So in your "stick fighting" they did not teach that your strikes are to vulnerable points & nerve endings? When struck on a nerve ending it does not take strength to make it hurt. Learned that by studying Kali.

This is Pressure Point talent and/or Anatomy Lessons. Agility doesn't give you sudden knowledge of *where* to strike an opponent.

I just find it amusing that in a Genre that has mostly has laser weapons, we are concerned about melee. In the movies iirc the only melee fights involve Lightsabers, or Ewoks

I have spent 12 years in the Martial arts, Tae Kwon Do, Philipino Stick fighting, Okinawan weapons. Hitting something is a lot more different then HURTING something. to hurt something you need strength, you need that weight behind the punch, kick, slice or stab.

Speed or high agility might look good, and add a cinematic feel, but your not really going to be hurting someone much unless you are using some sort of aid to increase your damage

So in your "stick fighting" they did not teach that your strikes are to vulnerable points & nerve endings? When struck on a nerve ending it does not take strength to make it hurt. Learned that by studying Kali.

In classrooms with a subdued opponent, of course you can use pressure and nerve techniques to control your opponent. Many styles teach it, and i could do it with my bare hands. The problem is you cannot do that without Aiming for a specific part (Two setback in these rules) or a talent like pressure points or anatomy lessons.

Or Do you think really think Yoda would have a chance in hurting R2 with nothing more then a walking stick and raw brute force?

That is ridiculous.

First, I would not support this house rule since it seems unnecessary. awayputurwpn is spot on with the Deadly Accuracy talent. It does what you want with really skilled combatants.

Second, adding real life arguments never works either way when talking about a rules mechanic.