away, I'm sadly familiar with the behavior of anonymous people on the internet, and in general, it is exactly as you say. However, every rpg forum I've been to has been incredibly kind, with people disagreeing with one another, but bending over backwards to respect other people's opinions. This is the first one I've been to where you can find garden variety internet trolls, as my ever-expanding ignore list can attest to.

There are many good points being made here, to be honest you can choose to GM it how you want, as it has little relevance on the gameplay itself, personally I probably wont bother with doing anything about it, it is however an extremely valid point, since the Falcon in the game did not get this fast from an upgrade, but from installing military hardware that was never meant to be on a civilian ship, given that you could not even buy the item, then its cost and ease of installation is definitely way out of sync with established knowledge of how hyperdrives work in the SW universe.

Another possibilty you could do is just to make up a price list for a base hyperdrive for each class but don't allow upgrades but allow trade ups, price it at a price that also factors in silhouette as well. It wouldn't be too hard to come up with a simple formula. Also, as a GM you have the right to fiddle with the rarity and you could say that 0.5 is restricted as well(I believe that it was iirc.). The base price of a lightsaber isn't much more than that, so the cost isn't that out of whack if you just mess with the rarity and make class 1 and 0.5 upgrades as rarity 8 ®, since you are moving into military territory.

You're going to make "The List"

Already did.

It has already been pointed out but it DOES affect the story... Just maybe not the plot. The story says that the Millenium Falcon is "something special". That's as big a part of the setting as the Emperor being evil is! The issue is not how fast the PC ship gets from A to B. The issue is how un-special the Millenium Falcon becomes when you can duplicate its capabilities so easily.

I'm not a rules person. I can't really refer to the rules to find things like this so my only knowledge of it comes from this read.

I'm not a GM so my opinion really only comes from my love of the setting. I inow that, if some NPC told me their ship was as fast as the Millenium Falcon, I'd figure he was lying. If he could prove it was, I'd be amazed! Learning how easily the Falcon's speed can be built into any ship is disappointing.

The prices and rarity levels in the book are a framework for GMs to use in order to give the world that the players are in some weight and a sense of realism (Not in the sense of "oh, this seems realistic" but in that they can actually imagine their characters living in this universe).

That said, there's a slippery slope between using the rules as a framework to drape your setting over and using them as a crutch to prop it up. On the opposite side of the fence it's also important to avoid falling into the trap of "STORY ABOVE ALL" and handwaving inconsistencies because it's convenient for the plot. Internal coherency is a part of storytelling and the lack of it can damage a story just as badly as plot holes or bad characters.

You're going to make "The List"

Already did.

It has already been pointed out but it DOES affect the story... Just maybe not the plot. The story says that the Millenium Falcon is "something special". That's as big a part of the setting as the Emperor being evil is! The issue is not how fast the PC ship gets from A to B. The issue is how un-special the Millenium Falcon becomes when you can duplicate its capabilities so easily.

You're in good company!

However, I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion.

The Falcon is so ******* cool! Speeding up a group's ship isn't going to take that away. Nothing that you can do to the player ship is going to make it half as cool as the Falcon. This idea that somehow letting the players get a modest replica of the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy somehow reduces the awesomeness of the original is just a fallacy.

If Lance Bassett goes into space does that make Neil Armstrong less of a hero? Not in the slightest.

I am with Furious Greg on this.

If it is important and relative to your campaign for whatever reason then you are free to change/adapt the rules as you see fit.

And for the record when I GM...It is the players narrating the story.

You're in good company!

However, I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion.

The Falcon is so ******* cool! Speeding up a group's ship isn't going to take that away. Nothing that you can do to the player ship is going to make it half as cool as the Falcon. This idea that somehow letting the players get a modest replica of the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy somehow reduces the awesomeness of the original is just a fallacy.

If Lance Bassett goes into space does that make Neil Armstrong less of a hero? Not in the slightest.

I had to look up who Lance Bassett was... Jeez. And.... srsly? He's your example??? ugh...

I'd like to say that I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about this. I can agree that there's no game stopping effect if the Millennium Falcon's feats are duplicatable (ugh... I know that's not a word but someone moved my dictionary and I don't know how I am supposed to spell it.. so, sorry). But someone was kinda being rude to people that *DO* feel there's an effect so I chimed in. For all I know, it was you! I'm just a bit hindered in my ability to look that sort of stuff up right now. This being the internet, I should know better, anyway!!!

Anyway, I think your example actually works against the point you were trying to make. Right now, *anyone* walking on the moon is still doing something exceptionally cool and worth noting. But, if it becomes so easy and cheap to do that no one really even thinks twice about it, the feelings people would get from actually going there would change.

Look at flying. All the work and genius that it took to get an airplane to fly made it so notably important that it was newsworthy around the world! Is anyone that awed by the idea of going into an airplane in 2013? Do people crowd the airports to celebrate a trans-continental flight successfully landing like they once did?

So yes. At some point, assuming it becomes a common thing to do, people will stop being blown away by Neil Armstrong walking on the moon and will simply respect him for being first. That's the overall effect that I think some people are unhappy about in this thread.

Personally (and I am NOT a GM!!!) I would probably make the Millennium Falcon's hyperspace speed multiplier .49 and be done with it.

Well we may think the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy but how do we really know?

I mean there could be other faster ships in it's class that prefered to keep that fact a secret...

In any case HappyDayz's solution isn't going to solve this issue of superseding the MF, it'll just make it take the PCs a little longer to achieve by adding a level of bookkeeping. So it comes down to this: would you rather have the PCs break the speed record of the illustrious Millennium Falcon as part of an adventure? Or are you okay with them just adding up enough credits to buy the requisite parts from the rule book?

I understand the world consistency argument, just read some of my other posts in other threads, and I agree that it is paramount to maintain both the suspension of disbelief and an underlying fairness to the game. However this isn't an example of an arbitrary breaking of the system, it's an opportunity to take something the PCs want and making it part of the story rather than just a mindless purchase.

Fair point that it is a 'delaying tactic' but the real issue is that the Rarity and Cost are too low. If you're making an adventure out of getting something rare and/or beyond the budget of most groups that's fine. Making an adventure about making what is a supposed to be a common and modestly priced part for a starship seems wrong to me. So again, I think that upping Cost and Rarity would be a good starting point, but I still like adding the 0.75 step in there too.

I've pretty much adopted an unofficial house rule that added a "0.75" to the hyperdrive modifier progression. So if you really do want that x0.5 hyperdrive, you're going to really need to work at it. I've also increased the number of potential modifications by 1 for a maximum of 3.

Does this mean that the Falcon is going to be very tough for the PCs to recreate? Yep, and I'm 100% okay with that. Granted, I'm not the biggest fan of the YT-1300 as I think it's an overused ship in most games, and as a GM I'm also personally sick of folks trying to model their own freighter after the Falcon, which is supposed to be such a customized vessel that it's almost nigh-impossible to recreate. It took a lot of work to get the Falcon down to a x0.5 hyperdrive, so in that respect I agree with HappyDaze that the current rules make a bit too easy to procure.

As a GM, I'd probably also flip a dark side Destiny Point to upgrade the check's difficulty to get it to that vaunted x0.5, as that's come to be seen as something of a "holy grail" in terms of hyperdrive design.

I guess my point is that if it's so important that the PCs shouldn't be able to easily achieve the same speed as the MF then why would you belittle this importance with a rule that is essentially just bookkeeping?

If you know your players really want their ship to preform as does the MF, why not make it the reward of a "quest" type series of adventures?

House ruling this seems like a terrible waste of adventure material, and pretty lazy to boot.

Must admit, I seriously don't see the big deal.

Is hyperdrive 0.5 THAT much of a game-breaker? My players passed on that one for other mods. What am I missing?

I was initially sceptical about having a MF expy ship for my players, but as soon as they saw the layout of the Krayt Fang, they really started to identify with the ship, designing their quarters and spending money on upgrading it. If they were THAT invested in the thing, I figured I'd let them have it.

And why shouldn't the players have the best tricked-out ship anyway? Providing they spend the credits they could have otherwise spent on other stuff. They are the stars of this show. Luke got eaten by womp rats, and as for Han... Greedo shot first...

Must admit, I seriously don't see the big deal.

Is hyperdrive 0.5 THAT much of a game-breaker? My players passed on that one for other mods. What am I missing?

It isnt a game breaker unless there is something in game about racing another ship through hyperspace. The point is that the in Lee behind star wars has the fact that getting to0.5 is nigh on impossible, whereas in game is common enough and cheap enough that it costs less than a simple set of tricked out armour. The extremes that had the owners of the millennium falcon had to go through were not insignificant. The millennium falcon needed a different power source(same as a b wing), as well as replacing the standard hyperdrive with one salvaged of a military ship. This was twice the size of a standard stock light freighter hyperdrive and involved searching out an individual that could actually install it and get it working. Even then it required significant amounts of maintenance to keep it running and a lot of downtime.

In game to get a ship that fast should be a campaign of itsown, yet you can do this with the rewards from one adventure and any(just) above average mechanic can install it.

I dont have a priblem with because in game its advantage is very situational.

Thanks for clarifying. Feels a bit like arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin (or midichlorian counts!) to me... but I'm not known for my adherence to lore

I can't see that Hyperspace speed is going to affect the average game a great deal - my players skipped this one to add better weapons and armour and shields and things that will actually see a lot of use.

I personally can't see it warrants its own house rule, but if that's important to some people's games, then go for it.

Thanks for clarifying. Feels a bit like arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin (or midichlorian counts!) to me... but I'm not known for my adherence to lore

I can't see that Hyperspace speed is going to affect the average game a great deal - my players skipped this one to add better weapons and armour and shields and things that will actually see a lot of use.

I personally can't see it warrants its own house rule, but if that's important to some people's games, then go for it.

In most cases, it's probably not a huge deal, and certainly not a 'game-breaker.'

But for those folks with an investment in the Star Wars EU, it's akin to getting a ground car that can routinely and safely break the sound barrier; something that shouldn't just be handed out like candy to anyone with a credits to burn.

However, for those adventure scenarios where time is of the essence, having a working x0.5 hyperdrive becomes a huge deal, particularly when the galactic standard is x2 for most transports.

"Oh, we've got to get Princess MacGuffin to Planet Plotpoint before her jerkass cousin enacts the ceremony that makes him the proper ruler in two days? And it normally takes a full standard day to make the trip on a regulation hyperdrive? No sweat, we'll be there before he can finish eating breakfast thanks to the souped-up hyperdrive this baby is packing."

But for those folks with an investment in the Star Wars EU

That's me out right there

I see your point, Donovan. But travel times are something I always control as GM. If I want them to get somewhere quickly, that can happen. If I want the ride to be rough, I make that happen too.

It feels a bit overkill to make a house rule for something like this... but that's the beauty of narrative games like EoE, we can all tailor the game to suit our take on the narrative. Providing we discuss our reasons with the players, I can't see a problem. My players wanted early access to the 'cool stuff' so we just skipped the '1st level' experience entirely. Sounds like we shall be doing the same in Age of Rebellion now we have the books. The players want to start higher up the food chain than raw recruits, which is fine because they will be the Lukes and Leias of our setting.

And just because players can get 0.5 hyperdrives doesn't mean every Tom, Greedo and Harry can buy them. I see price lists as just a guideline for a GM. My players won't be able to buy lightsabers for any amount of money.

You didn't really answer the question because the real answer is that it doesn't affect storytelling at all, but whatever. Here's what happens when you add the upgrade.

Instead of the GM saying,

"You are in hyperspace for 24 hours before arriving on Hoth"

he is saying,

"You are in hyperspace for 8 hours before arriving on Hoth".

The speed of a ship matters to storytelling when the speed of the ship matters to the story. If "how long are we in hyperspace before arriving on Hoth" is an insignificant detail, then ship speed doesn't affect storytelling, but travel time can matter to a narrative.

Maybe if the Bounty Hunter PC can get to Tatooine before his target does, he can set a trap. If it takes the Bounty Hunter X hours to get to Tatooine and the target Y hours, then X-Y is how long the Bounty Hunter will have set his trap. Ship speed sounds like a factor that is affecting storytelling

Or, reverse that. Maybe the PCs learn that an NPC Bounty Hunter is after their friend and there's a race to the friend's location. Getting there faster could be the difference between getting their friend away to safety or mounting a rescue.

Maybe there's a time limit on the adventure as a whole. A faster ship means less travel time and more time to deal with other aspects of the scenario. Ship speed sounds like a factor that is affecting storytelling.

What matters is the adventure, not how much downtime you have between each adventure. If your PCs are more excited about sitting in hyperspace than they are about adventuring then maybe the problem isn't the hyperdrive.

Characters never travel through hyperspace during adventures? Edge of the Empire is, to some extent, a game of resource management. Time is a resource, including time spent traveling during adventures.

If it's a problem, why let them have it? Not every starport is equipped to retrofit a hyperdrive, and even the ones that are equipped could be backlogged for months - and that doesn't even consider the time it takes to install it. It's not like an R2 unit comes aboard and turns a screw and all of a sudden your ship is faster - this is a major modification and it should be fraught with peril and consequences. Think of the urban legend of the guy that strapped a JATO to his Nova and you'll get the idea.

Or, at least that's how I'd rule it - I'm in the business of providing a good story, not being Santa.

But travel times are something I always control as GM. If I want them to get somewhere quickly, that can happen. If I want the ride to be rough, I make that happen too.

That play style obviates the whole issue, though. You said your players skipped the hyperdrive upgrade. If travel time is completely out of player hands, then it make a lot of sense to skip the upgrade -- it would be a complete waste of credits and hard points.

It feels a bit overkill to make a house rule for something like this...

That play style obviates the whole issue, though. You said your players skipped the hyperdrive upgrade. If travel time is completely out of player hands, then it make a lot of sense to skip the upgrade -- it would be a complete waste of credits and hard points.

You, sir, have almost convinced me that dropping the Hyperdrive multiplier entirely might be a way to go. If there's a race on, the outcome should be decided by skill checks rather than be set in stone.

Almost!

The speed of a ship matters to storytelling when the speed of the ship matters to the story. If "how long are we in hyperspace before arriving on Hoth" is an insignificant detail, then ship speed doesn't affect storytelling, but travel time can matter to a narrative.

Maybe if the Bounty Hunter PC can get to Tatooine before his target does, he can set a trap. If it takes the Bounty Hunter X hours to get to Tatooine and the target Y hours, then X-Y is how long the Bounty Hunter will have set his trap. Ship speed sounds like a factor that is affecting storytelling

Or, reverse that. Maybe the PCs learn that an NPC Bounty Hunter is after their friend and there's a race to the friend's location. Getting there faster could be the difference between getting their friend away to safety or mounting a rescue.

Maybe there's a time limit on the adventure as a whole. A faster ship means less travel time and more time to deal with other aspects of the scenario. Ship speed sounds like a factor that is affecting storytelling.

I agree with this ^ and I hope I didn't come off as suggesting that ships should go the "speed of plot" only that making a rule to slow down the acquisition of the penultimate speed multiplier of .5 based on what NPCs might or might not do is, in my opinion, a waste of energy. All the pricing and rarity values in EotE are for PCs in this particular setting of the backwaters on the edge of the Empire and could even change in AoR and F&D when the PCs have access to new worlds and resources.

As with every game tailor it as you see fit.

From what I can gather, there is a disconnect with what Mr. Daze sees as detracting from his and his groups gaming experience, and what others see as a rarely observed mechanic for travel times.

I believe, although I could be very wrong, that Mr. Daze and his group are quite familiar with the EU and that familiarity causes them to make assumptions about how the SW universe works, completely VALID assumptions at that. The relative affordability and commonality of the Attachment in question is causing a conflict with their assumptions, and the implications of those assumptions, with what would be commonly available. There is nothing wrong with his logic (and please excuse me if you are not a "he")

Mr. Daze ~ Given the parameters that you have thus far suggested, I would also draw your attention to the following things I think are relevant, but please believe that i am just offering things to consider, not in any way claiming that anything is "wrong" or "you missed this".

1. While it is true that the Attachment is fairly common, there is nothing that I can recall that stipulates that Modifying said attachment is either easily accessible, nor legal for that matter. In many current states, altering ones emissions can be a very serious crime. It could just be a violation of the law to modify a starships HD.

2. Frankly I base upgrades to starships as starting at 1000 per step instead of 100. Alternate solutions could include exotic parts and/or questionable facilities posessing specialized tools to effect this upgrade (I'm thinking transmissions in a modern context). In addition,you could include a Sil multipler to all Attachments and mods as well.

3. In response to an ISD posessiong said upgrade, well, militaries are built around uniformity and logistical restraints. I seriously doubt that the attachments/mods system was ever intended to be applied to so massive a ship.

All in all I think that you are very capable and will come up with something suitable for your game. The best of luck.

As for the others, well for good or ill i gave my players 120k credits to build whatever moster they wanted. Yes, they started with a fair number of upgrades, but it hasn't really detracted from our game. I also mandated a 7 day week and ruled that each square on the galactic map is 1 week of travel at HS 1. It makes sustaining consumables a worry, but only if the primary HD fails. My players are happy and it works for us.

However, just because a group desires a higher level of granularity in their games doesn't mean they are "cloging up" a system or "over complicating" it. it's just how they play. Please respect it.