I look at the costs and such as mechanics for player characters, not for how the setting functions. You choose to look at it differently. No skin off my back. In my setting, the costs of doing such a hyperdrive upgrade to an ISD would be exorbitant to say the least. But when it comes to player character interactions I use the book with some embellishments. Such as having to track down someone who can do the upgrade, or finding the right pieces of tech to do it.

I agree with HappyDaze here. I am not looking at this "issue" from a mechanical point of view (game breaking or not), neither from how much it will affect my plots, storytelling etc. My concern is more regarding the PC goals / reward.

As it is now, getting the fastest ship in the galaxy is very trivial. Get the attachment for 6400 credits (rarity 4!), and then perform a mechanic test (which any mechanic oriented starting PC can do) and voila! Your YT-1300 has hyperdrive 0.5. It is totally fine for me as a GM. But wouldn't it be a bit disappointing for the PCs? Sooooo easy to achieve...

Well, change it for your own game. most groups, unless they're legit, would have trouble buying some attachment like that, for a starship that is most likely stolen, and then given to them... they'd have to go black market, and while rarity 4 isn't very high, it does add to the price of getting it, it becomes risky getting it too. The book says one thing, but as you know the side bar says: Fun first, rules second. If it doesn't fit, change it or remove it.

I did answer your question. It affects our sotrytelling/gameplay by creating a situation (easy availabilty of high speed hyperdrives) that breaks with the canon and harms our immersion in the setting.

We don't 'measure the map', but we do use the travel time suggestions given. We then have to adjust for the Class of the hyperdrive. When we get to that step we realize that the world supported by the mechanics doesn't jive with what we know of Star Wars.

You didn't really answer the question because the real answer is that it doesn't affect storytelling at all, but whatever. Here's what happens when you add the upgrade.

Instead of the GM saying,

"You are in hyperspace for 24 hours before arriving on Hoth"

he is saying,

"You are in hyperspace for 8 hours before arriving on Hoth".

If you want to be that nitpicky in your NARRATIVE game then go ahead and house rule it, but I think you might be trying to turn Star Wars into Star Trek. What matters is the adventure, not how much downtime you have between each adventure. If your PCs are more excited about sitting in hyperspace than they are about adventuring then maybe the problem isn't the hyperdrive.

I did answer your question. It affects our sotrytelling/gameplay by creating a situation (easy availabilty of high speed hyperdrives) that breaks with the canon and harms our immersion in the setting.

We don't 'measure the map', but we do use the travel time suggestions given. We then have to adjust for the Class of the hyperdrive. When we get to that step we realize that the world supported by the mechanics doesn't jive with what we know of Star Wars.

You didn't really answer the question because the real answer is that it doesn't affect storytelling at all, but whatever. Here's what happens when you add the upgrade.

Instead of the GM saying,

"You are in hyperspace for 24 hours before arriving on Hoth"

he is saying,

"You are in hyperspace for 8 hours before arriving on Hoth".

If you want to be that nitpicky in your NARRATIVE game then go ahead and house rule it, but I think you might be trying to turn Star Wars into Star Trek. What matters is the adventure, not how much downtime you have between each adventure. If your PCs are more excited about sitting in hyperspace than they are about adventuring then maybe the problem isn't the hyperdrive.

That was rather unpleasant. It looked like you were trying to make a personal attack. Are you actually trying to be helpful or are you just intentionally being rude?

Also, remember that rarity is adjusted according to location, so a hyperdrive generator is probably a lot more rare in the outer rim than the core worlds.

Either way, I see your issue, and changing it as you see fit makes sense. I haven't got the need yet, although my players should soon start to feel the need for an upgrade, they're taking time moving cargo and all that, they're losing precious time in the rust bucket.

HappyDaze makes a very good point. In addition, there are certain "fast" ships out there that have been modded, but very few seem to make it to the elusive 0.5 past light speed. Even Slave I, which Jango and Boba Fett had been modifying for almost as long as the Falcon, managed to get it down to a speedy, but not as impressive 0.7 past lightspeed. Given that Boba had access to a lot more money than Solo, you'd think Slave I could match the Falcon for Hyperspace speed.

I have the Falcon Haynes Manual, but not at my fingertips. In it, it describes in some (fictional of course) detail the painstaking process through which Solo and Chewbacca (and others) managed to get the Falcon's hyperdrive down to its legendary 0.5 rating. I don't necessarily want to put this out of reach of players, but I also don't want to see it become something that is achievable after 1-2 sessions. I'd likely put in the 0,25 intervals

As for costs, I think the presented costs in the book are assuming for a ship that the players would reasonably use, ie. Silhoutte 4 and maybe a small Sil5 ship. HappyDaze is right in assuming that a hyperdrive for a Star Destroyer would be the same as for a YT-1300... especially since several YT-1300s could fit inside the housing of the hyperdrive on most capital ships.

As large as the EoTE (and likely subsequent) books are, I am taking on the assumption that they're not providing detailed lists of everything available. In the Core Rulebook, it specifically says that the attachments listed are not a comprehensive list, as "such a list is well outside the scope of this publication, but it is meant to be representative of what can be done to customize a spacecraft." (pg. 269). It also says that GameMasters are encouraged to design their own attachments to their players tastes and needs... and then goes on to say that more attachments are forthcoming.

Hmm... It also mentions that installation costs on mods are 10x what they are for personal gear...

I'd say that silhouette costs for certain mods/upgrades are exponentially higher for ships of a larger silhouette, as that seems to cover approximately how large ships are relative to each other. So perhaps a hyperdrive generator for a Silhouette 4 ship would be 6,400cr plus installation and modification costs, but for a Silhouette 5 ship it could be say 57,000... and say 512,000 for a Silhouette 6 ship. That math isn't all that hard...

That was rather unpleasant. It looked like you were trying to make a personal attack. Are you actually trying to be helpful or are you just intentionally being rude?

Both.

You are going out of your way to complicate rules and slow down gameplay without having that enhance the story. That strikes me as a poor solution to a non-problem. Yes, non-problem; because the abstract of travel time is not an issue in game. Here's how hyperspace travel works:

"You're trip is going to take X hours. Remove X strain and we'll take a quick break for beers, snacks, toliets."

Then gameplay resume as the ship exits hyperspace.

You're going to make "The List"

Exactly! The problem by the Falcon was, that the illegal installed Isu-Sim SSP05 hyperdrive generator and the backup hyperdrive necessitated that both share the same motivator. If that is damaged the Falcon is in trouble and it had to be repaired. Also this high modification needs a lot maintenance a month.

Got this from the Haynes manual

You're going to make "The List"

Oh no!

From SW D6 3rd edition, for the EotE I'd give difficulty of 3 purple and 1 red.

Hyperdrive class 0.5

The best hyperdrive ever created is the class 0.5. No manufacturer creates such a delicate and unreliable piece of equipment. The only way to create a hyperdrive of this type is to modify a class 1 hyperdrive. Because of its inherent unreliability, class 0.5 hyperdrives are illegal under all, but the most unusual circumstances.

The installation cost is around 15,000 credits, with the average unit weighing in around 20 tons. A typical custom hyperdrive job can cost between 50,000 and 90,000 credits, depending on the quality of the parts, the cost of the hyperdrive being modified, and the quality of work.

A class 0.5 hyperdrive is very carefully tuned and delicate, so it tends to malfunction much more often than a standard hyperdrive. It requires a routine maintenance after ten hyperspace jumps and a DN 25 "Starship" Repair check to keep one running smoothly. If the maintenance isn't kept up, the hyperdrive suffers the normal penalties for lack of routine maintenance.

You're going to make "The List"

Oh no!

Oh yes.

I personally would go with the suggestion of granting diminishing returns for each successive hyperdrive upgrade, and once they get it below 1.0 I'd have them make regular, tricky maintenance checks (Difficulty depending on how close they are to 0.5) to keep the hyperdrive tuned. I'd also reserve the right to have it malfunction entirely if their ship dips below a certain strain level, Critical Hits or not.

Basically make it clear to them that yes, they can get their lightning fast starship that can run rings around the fastest Imperial ships...so long as they're willing to deal with the tradeoffs. You don't get hydraulic control circuits and a major resistance to Ion damage without suffering penalties to system strain, so I don't see why you can't apply that to other, more attractive upgrades.

Basically make it clear to them that yes, they can get their lightning fast starship that can run rings around the fastest Imperial ships...so long as they're willing to deal with the tradeoffs. You don't get hydraulic control circuits and a major resistance to Ion damage without suffering penalties to system strain, so I don't see why you can't apply that to other, more attractive upgrades.

The strain trade off because of installing hydraulic circuits is not to penalise having an upgrade, it is in the ame because hydralic parts by their very nature have more moving parts, it is like comparing the mechanical reliability of a traditional hard drive for a computer with that of a solid state drive, mechanically solid state drives do not break down. Hence the inclusion ofmore moving parts reduces strain but meansit is resistant to electrical damage.

Edit although given the description of the unreliability of 0.5 hyperdrives I could agree with lowered strain for the ship as a result. It does make sense.

I completely agree with HAPPYDAZE here. I like the KISS progression for the attachment and mods. It should probably also cost a lot more once you dip below 1.

I also like the idea of a ship that has reached .5 requiring more maintenance, as well as providing story hooks for breaking down or required stops.

As for the "who cares about Hyperspace, it's about the story!" The Falcons speed was part of the story. It was the fastest ship, earning bragging rights and noteriety.

I've read through this because it's likely to come up for me soon and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. In the end I don't think there is a problem here to fix. In my games the PCs are the center of the story and even though there may be other characters in this galaxy of thousands of planets and billions(trillions) of creatures, many with access to the same tech, the only time my PCs will ever come up against another ship with this kind of modification will be if the story requires it. Otherwise just like the hundreds of millions of car owners on our fair planet who could afford to modify their cars and don't, neither will my average galactic Jar Jars.

Besides if my PCs want to trick out their ride and it's a little too soon for my campaign I'll just not make the part available at that moment, or make it available but not have time to install it, or have getting it part of an adventure. Making a new set of rules is an unnecessary burden for what is essentially a one time event.

I've read through this because it's likely to come up for me soon and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. In the end I don't think there is a problem here to fix. In my games the PCs are the center of the story and even though there may be other characters in this galaxy of thousands of planets and billions(trillions) of creatures, many with access to the same tech, the only time my PCs will ever come up against another ship with this kind of modification will be if the story requires it. Otherwise just like the hundreds of millions of car owners on our fair planet who could afford to modify their cars and don't, neither will my average galactic Jar Jars.

Besides if my PCs want to trick out their ride and it's a little too soon for my campaign I'll just not make the part available at that moment, or make it available but not have time to install it, or have getting it part of an adventure. Making a new set of rules is an unnecessary burden for what is essentially a one time event.

IRL, making high performance modifications to cars tends to be very expensive and often requires skills that not every owner is going to have. In EotE, making high performance modifications to starships tends to be very inexpensive and only requires the basic skills that every freighter crew is likely to have.

As for making it 'not available' or 'part of the story' I just have to remind you that these parts are about as common as a blaster pistol, and I certainly don't plan to make a big deal about picking up a blaster pistol at the store.

IRL, making high performance modifications to cars tends to be very expensive and often requires skills that not every owner is going to have. In EotE, making high performance modifications to starships tends to be very inexpensive and only requires the basic skills that every freighter crew is likely to have.

This is where we differ. In SW Han Solo & Chewie weren't just any freighter crew, nor were any of the other main characters or villains. My PCs aren't either and they are the ones that are going to do the cinematic thing, everyone else is just background fluff, and fluff doesn't bother modding ships. This isn't D&D where every bartender is an ex-tenth level fighter and has a magic maul-o-squashing slung behind the counter.

Plus the prices and rarity levels in the book are for PCs, NPCs and such don't buy anything they get what you give them. Does a Stormtrooper have to search for a vendor to get their weapons and armor?

You can use the price and rarity to gauge if it's likely for a random mook to have something but in general the narrative determines if they have some bit of equipment or whatever.

As for making it 'not available' or 'part of the story' I just have to remind you that these parts are about as common as a blaster pistol, and I certainly don't plan to make a big deal about picking up a blaster pistol at the store.

The prices and rarity levels in the book are guides and though this part may be as easy to get as a blaster pistol it doesn't mean that you have to have them available at every junk shop. Rarity is a value so you know basically how difficult it is for the PCs to get the things they need or want when it has no importance to the story. Basically if it's important to your narrative that the PCs ship can't do the Kessel Run in 10 Parsecs quite yet then stretch out the time it takes to acquire the part. Don't keep it from them forever, it is only Rarity 4, but if you'd rather have them get it in two sessions instead of right this very second then make that call. This is a Role Playing game not a Roll playing game.

NPCs don't buy anything, eh? So if a PC asks an NPC where he bought something and how much it cost, the NPC just stands there for a moment dumbfounded and says "It was the will of the Force - don't question it." Sorry, I don't go for that. The adventures of the PCs have primary significance in the story, but the laws of the setting don't change for them.

You make the tired roleplaying vs. rollplaying argument (incorrectly attributing a desire for verisimilitude as rollplaying), but you also showcase the new elitism of throwing the word narrative around. Narrative does not require that the world stop making sense the moment it's 'off camera'. IME, if the consensual reality of the setting doesn't make a lick of sense (as supported by the rules), then narrative is going to suffer.

NPCs don't buy anythinYou make the tired roleplaying vs. rollplaying argument (incorrectly attributing a desire for verisimilitude as rollplaying), but you also showcase the new elitism of throwing the word narrative around. Narrative does not require that the world stop making sense the moment it's 'off camera'.

This so hard! I can't believe the amount of people on this forum with this attitude, and so many are huge jerks about it. If you don't agree with a play style, fine, but why demean people? My ignore list grows by 1 or 2 every thread I make asking a basic mechanics question, even when I include a request in the first post about negative and disrespectful comments being unwelcome. This is by far the most offensive rpg forum community I've ever visited, it is really disheartening. What about a "narrative" game brings jerks out in droves? (To be clear, I'm not talking about FuriousGreg, he is debating his points respectfully)

NPCs don't buy anythinYou make the tired roleplaying vs. rollplaying argument (incorrectly attributing a desire for verisimilitude as rollplaying), but you also showcase the new elitism of throwing the word narrative around. Narrative does not require that the world stop making sense the moment it's 'off camera'.

This so hard! I can't believe the amount of people on this forum with this attitude, and so many are huge jerks about it. If you don't agree with a play style, fine, but why demean people? My ignore list grows by 1 or 2 every thread I make asking a basic mechanics question, even when I include a request in the first post about negative and disrespectful comments being unwelcome. This is by far the most offensive rpg forum community I've ever visited, it is really disheartening. What about a "narrative" game brings jerks out in droves? (To be clear, I'm not talking about FuriousGreg, he is debating his points respectfully)

I think that most of the posters here are GMs, and my experience is that many "Narrative GMs" take the interpretation that Narrative means:

1) Only the story matters.

2) Only my story matters.

3) Only I matter.

I've discovered that, contrary to the intended aims of many Narrative games, they tend to attract the worst sorts of self-absorbed and narcissistic GMs. Those that have some level of people skills can run awesome games, but on the internet those people skills tend to fall away.

Andre, it's not just a narrative gaming system that brings the jerks; it's the unfortunate reality of the Internet. People who are decent and friendly face-to-face turn into jerks online.

And then also there's the fact that it's really hard to infer tone from text, so a comment that might SOUND innocuous coming from one's mouth is taken as rude, condescending, or harsh when read as plain white text.

NPCs don't buy anything, eh? So if a PC asks an NPC where he bought something and how much it cost, the NPC just stands there for a moment dumbfounded and says "It was the will of the Force - don't question it." Sorry, I don't go for that. The adventures of the PCs have primary significance in the story, but the laws of the setting don't change for them.

Don't be silly, if the price is for something the PCs are interested in then the price the NPC would quote would be the price in the book. It's the price for the NPC that is irreverent because it's the GM that decides what NPCs have or do not have, their income and an items rarity would be a guide if it was necessary or appropriate. Even then those costs and rarity would be relative to the NPCs themselves as in my example of the Stormtroopers (they don't pay anything for their equipment and rarity is essentially irrelevant). That is unless you are sitting at home playing all the NPCs in your entire universe and accounting for all the credits they make and spend and whether or not they've run out of TP and laundry detergent right up to the point where a PC asks how much that neat little Darth Vader Bobble head was.

You make the tired roleplaying vs. rollplaying argument (incorrectly attributing a desire for verisimilitude as rollplaying), but you also showcase the new elitism of throwing the word narrative around. Narrative does not require that the world stop making sense the moment it's 'off camera'. IME, if the consensual reality of the setting doesn't make a lick of sense (as supported by the rules), then narrative is going to suffer.

Role playing in this context is allowing yourself to have PCs acquire things that are important to the story in-game rather than just saying buy it out of the book and you have it (Roll Playing). Buying stuff from the book has it's place, there's rarely any reason to RP buying ammo but since the conversation started with a device that you believe has some significant impact on your campaign then it's something that shouldn't be hand waved away just because the PC has the cash.

I'll concede that I use the word Narrative more now that I have EotE but only because it replaces the word Story that I used to use. Also don't equate placing a value on narrative with a lack of structure or continuity within a game, they are not mutually exclusive.

And then also there's the fact that it's really hard to infer tone from text, so a comment that might SOUND innocuous coming from one's mouth is taken as rude, condescending, or harsh when read as plain white text.

Very true. This is why I always directly ask for clarification if I question whether a post is intended to be offensive. If it is, then i don't hesitate to Ignore them. If it's not, then we can move on. I consider this being assertive and honest, but others see it differently..