The way I read RAW a minion group affectively is a single target that fight as one. I mean if it's a group of 4 minions it makes no difference if you attack minion 1 or minion 3 it goes to the same pool.

So how does grenades work? I mean on one hand it's a grenade with blast so realistically it seems like it would hit all of them.. However, mechanically it seems way too powerful because you only apply soak once. A grenade blast 6 because of single soak applied could wipe out a minion group of 6 or more since they fight as one and are bunched up.

Thoughts?

For minions, soak applies against each hit , not each attack . So a blast 6 grenade would deal a 6-damage hit to all minions, so soak applies to each one. Attacking clusters of troops is exactly what grenades are designed to do!

-EF

Yeah. Figure out the minion's soak, subtract it from the Blast value, then multiply that number by the number of minions hit by the blast and subtract the result from the minion group's Wound Threshold. That'd be an easy way to figure out blast damage for a minion group.

What an easy solution, can't believe I didn't think of that. Thanks

I think where the confusion with Blast and minion groups comes in is that Blast is written to only affect targets that are Engaged with the primary target, and there's nothing in the rules that says a minion group has to be Engaged with each other in order to function as a group. Hypothetically, you could have a squad of 4 minions that are all at Medium Range from each other, and per the rules they'd get all the perks of being a minion group.

So in that respect, I could see how it'd be odd to have such a minion group take damage from the Blast quality when none of the other minions are Engaged with the other, as it seems kinda counter-intuitive.

Hypothetically, you could have a squad of 4 minions that are all at Medium Range from each other, and per the rules they'd get all the perks of being a minion group.

They would also get all of the disadvantages too, such as damage carryover into the next minion (assuming that the weapon can target them all).

So in that respect, I could see how it'd be odd to have such a minion group take damage from the Blast quality when none of the other minions are Engaged with the other, as it seems kinda counter-intuitive.

:-D

While I have made any firm rules for my group, in my mind i think of them as engaged with each other or in short range with each other. My group hasn't gotten into using much stuff with blast yet so when they do i imagine i'll have some more concrete rules.

I've never run with the members of the group being beyond Short range apart, but they typically only group to Engaged when absolutely necessary for the task at hand (like making Brawl or Melee attacks).

I can see Stormtroopers and groups of minions that can easily communicate with comlinks in helmets for coordination and stuff gaining the benefit even at medium from each other ... perhaps not long range, but hey that could probably be rationalised too. If on the other hand the minions have no good means of communication beyond Medium range, at least, or beyond Short range without a lot of shouting, I'd consider breaking them up into smaller groups...

My main problem with having a minion group not being engaged with each other is movement. It costs a maneuver to move, and the group is considered one "character" for movement, so if some of them want/need to move, that takes their free maneuver for the turn. It seems to me it might get a bit confusing keeping track of individual troops in one group like that, especially if you have multiple minion groups.

Minions are supposed to ease the burden of GMing by consolidating NPCs. Having them spread out like that seems counterproductive, to me.

-EF

Yeah. Figure out the minion's soak, subtract it from the Blast value, then multiply that number by the number of minions hit by the blast and subtract the result from the minion group's Wound Threshold. That'd be an easy way to figure out blast damage for a minion group.

Okay, since I'm slow and need lots of examples: A group of 4 stormtroopers gets hit by a grenade. How many down?

Assuming they're engaged with each other, 1 success on attack check (and 2 advantage for Blast activation) and Frag grenade damage.

Initial damage to group would be 9-soak (if I remember frag grenade damage correctly).

By away's suggestion I would assume you then apply Blast 6 (plus successes I believe), so that would be 7, subtract soak, and multiply result by 3 (as the first target does not suffer Blast damage I believe).

If I recall correctly Stormtroopers have 5 soak. So initial damage would be 4 from attack check, then another 6 from Blast-soak (that is 2) multiplied by 3 hit troopers. A total of 10 then, I believe. I might be way off mark, but that's how I understand Away's suggestion.

Yeah. Figure out the minion's soak, subtract it from the Blast value, then multiply that number by the number of minions hit by the blast and subtract the result from the minion group's Wound Threshold. That'd be an easy way to figure out blast damage for a minion group.

Okay, since I'm slow and need lots of examples: A group of 4 stormtroopers gets hit by a grenade. How many down?

WIth my book handy, I'll take a shot at it.

Frag grenade is 8 damage, Blast 6. So the primary target takes 8 + successes damage, and all others engaged with it take 6 + Successes. For the sake of simplicity, we'll say it's a 1-success attack; meaning 9 damage to the primary target and 7 to each additional.

Stormtroopers have a soak of 5 and a WT of 5, so that's 20 WT total for the 4 of them.

The primary target takes 4 wounds (9 - 5), and the 3 other engaged targets take 2 wounds (7-5). That means a total of 10 wounds (4 for the primary, and 2 for the other 3 (2x3=6).

So one frag grenade with only 1 success takes out 2 Stormtroopers. For each additional success, add 4 damage (each success adds 1 damage to each of the 4 troopers). So a 2-success attack would deal 14, a 3-success attack would be 18, etc.

Makes sense?

-EF

Yeah. Figure out the minion's soak, subtract it from the Blast value, then multiply that number by the number of minions hit by the blast and subtract the result from the minion group's Wound Threshold. That'd be an easy way to figure out blast damage for a minion group.

Okay, since I'm slow and need lots of examples: A group of 4 stormtroopers gets hit by a grenade. How many down?

WIth my book handy, I'll take a shot at it.

Frag grenade is 8 damage, Blast 6. So the primary target takes 8 + successes damage, and all others engaged with it take 6 + Successes. For the sake of simplicity, we'll say it's a 1-success attack; meaning 9 damage to the primary target and 7 to each additional.

Stormtroopers have a soak of 5 and a WT of 5, so that's 20 WT total for the 4 of them.

The primary target takes 4 wounds (9 - 5), and the 3 other engaged targets take 2 wounds (7-5). That means a total of 10 wounds (4 for the primary, and 2 for the other 3 (2x3=6).

So one frag grenade with only 1 success takes out 2 Stormtroopers. For each additional success, add 4 damage (each success adds 1 damage to each of the 4 troopers). So a 2-success attack would deal 14, a 3-success attack would be 18, etc.

Makes sense?

-EF

It takes out one stormtrooper with the 6th point of damage, taking out the second would require an 11th point of damage. You need to exceed WT, not equal it to tke out a target.

The primary target takes 4 wounds (9 - 5), and the 3 other engaged targets take 2 wounds (7-5). That means a total of 10 wounds (4 for the primary, and 2 for the other 3 (2x3=6).

-EF

The caveat on that though is if the Stormtroopers are Engaged with one another. If they're at Short Range (which is typically the furthest I've seen map-using GMs set them up at if not requiring them to be Engaged), then Blast doesn't do anything, since it's limited to the Engaged range band (barring a couple specific exceptions like thermal detonators).

Still creates a conceptual oddity should minions in a group be spaced at Medium or further, as the damage value of the grenade would mechanically carry over past the first stormtrooper (assuming 4 or more successes on the attack roll) and onto the next, even though the next stormtrooper isn't anywhere within the explosion radius of the grenade going off. GM might need to get a bit creative to cover up said oddity, but it's not a game-breaking issue.

Yeah. Figure out the minion's soak, subtract it from the Blast value, then multiply that number by the number of minions hit by the blast and subtract the result from the minion group's Wound Threshold. That'd be an easy way to figure out blast damage for a minion group.

Okay, since I'm slow and need lots of examples: A group of 4 stormtroopers gets hit by a grenade. How many down?

WIth my book handy, I'll take a shot at it.

Frag grenade is 8 damage, Blast 6. So the primary target takes 8 + successes damage, and all others engaged with it take 6 + Successes. For the sake of simplicity, we'll say it's a 1-success attack; meaning 9 damage to the primary target and 7 to each additional.

Stormtroopers have a soak of 5 and a WT of 5, so that's 20 WT total for the 4 of them.

The primary target takes 4 wounds (9 - 5), and the 3 other engaged targets take 2 wounds (7-5). That means a total of 10 wounds (4 for the primary, and 2 for the other 3 (2x3=6).

So one frag grenade with only 1 success takes out 2 Stormtroopers. For each additional success, add 4 damage (each success adds 1 damage to each of the 4 troopers). So a 2-success attack would deal 14, a 3-success attack would be 18, etc.

Makes sense?

-EF

It takes out one stormtrooper with the 6th point of damage, taking out the second would require an 11th point of damage. You need to exceed WT, not equal it to tke out a target.

Right, sorry. Page 390 does indeed say, " Individual member of the group are defeated one at a time, each time the total wounds suffered exceeds the groups member's share of the the wound threshold, " bold mine. It then goes into an example about Stormtroopers. Good catch!

The primary target takes 4 wounds (9 - 5), and the 3 other engaged targets take 2 wounds (7-5). That means a total of 10 wounds (4 for the primary, and 2 for the other 3 (2x3=6).

-EF

The caveat on that though is if the Stormtroopers are Engaged with one another. If they're at Short Range (which is typically the furthest I've seen map-using GMs set them up at if not requiring them to be Engaged), then Blast doesn't do anything, since it's limited to the Engaged range band (barring a couple specific exceptions like thermal detonators).

Still creates a conceptual oddity should minions in a group be spaced at Medium or further, as the damage value of the grenade would mechanically carry over past the first stormtrooper (assuming 4 or more successes on the attack roll) and onto the next, even though the next stormtrooper isn't anywhere within the explosion radius of the grenade going off. GM might need to get a bit creative to cover up said oddity, but it's not a game-breaking issue.

Right, assuming they're all engaged. Now, if we were to use a thermal detonator (per page 165, their blast radius is short range, not engaged!)… KABOOOOMMMM!!!!!!

-EF

Wow, total fail internet! Duplicate post

Well, to be fair, a lot of GMs (including a couple who actually designed the rules), tend to over look that part of the rules when it comes it minion groups, and simply drop a minion when an attack deals enough damage to equal their Wound Threshold. Makes it easier on the GM to simply track "Okay, every 5 damage dealt to Wound Threshold means a stormtrooper is defeated" in the middle of gameplay. That and they're minions aka totally disposable NPCs, so if it makes the players feel a bit more badass to drop a stormtrooper after doing 10 damage on an attack with a blaster pistol instead of having to deal 11 damage, I say go with "minion drops upon taking damage equal to Wound Threshold."

The primary target takes 4 wounds (9 - 5), and the 3 other engaged targets take 2 wounds (7-5). That means a total of 10 wounds (4 for the primary, and 2 for the other 3 (2x3=6).

-EF

The caveat on that though is if the Stormtroopers are Engaged with one another. If they're at Short Range (which is typically the furthest I've seen map-using GMs set them up at if not requiring them to be Engaged), then Blast doesn't do anything, since it's limited to the Engaged range band (barring a couple specific exceptions like thermal detonators).

Still creates a conceptual oddity should minions in a group be spaced at Medium or further, as the damage value of the grenade would mechanically carry over past the first stormtrooper (assuming 4 or more successes on the attack roll) and onto the next, even though the next stormtrooper isn't anywhere within the explosion radius of the grenade going off. GM might need to get a bit creative to cover up said oddity, but it's not a game-breaking issue.

The conceptual oddity can be explained as he Strain from seeing your buddy blown up. Since we're talking about Minions (where Strain is not tracked), it goes straight to the Wounds.

The conceptual oddity can be explained as he Strain from seeing your buddy blown up. Since we're talking about Minions (where Strain is not tracked), it goes straight to the Wounds.

Reminds me of Panic Losses from the game Battlelore. Good ol' Goblins.