I know it's tangential, but this is not what was said about Adrenaline Rush.

• Adrenal Rush, when you have a red maneuver on your dial and stress, both happen when you reveal your dial, but when you get to the check for red maneuvers it's no longer red due to the Adrenal Rush.

James told me that Adrenaline Rush means that the maneuver is NEVER red in the first place. It's not that both happen and you recheck for the "opponent picks" part - it's that AR makes it so it was always white, and the "opponent picks" rule never triggers at all.

You keep saying this, but the card has to go in effect as some point of the "When the Dial is Revealed". Now all we can know is

1. It can go in effect before the Stress/Red check.
2. That the changed value of the the dial is what is checked when the ship has Stress, Which all happens in the "When the Dial is Revealed" phase

Which is more or less agrees with everything we have superpositioned about timing.

<shrug> What I'm saying is what I was told face-to-face by James Kniffen when I asked the question. I'm honestly not sure why it would work like that either. It certainly doesn't fit my mental model.

If you want to disregard the whole thing as "We were in the middle of a massive tournament and he was tired and not really paying attention", fine. If you want to accept it all, fine. But to take the final "Yes, it works" answer and ignore the provided information for the "why" of it so you can redefine it to your preferred reason, and then use that reason as precedent for other rulings, seems somewhat suspect.

For me it works and over thinking it just for the fun of complication isn't worth it.

It works, it makes sense, it's fine.

I'm not disregarding what he says, I'm just saying it's not at odds with what I suspect to be how timing works in this game.

What he said about "As far as the Stress test, it's always been a white maneuver." Matches what I've been saying about how when you come to resolve something you use the current value, as far as the second item resolved is concerned it's always been the modified value.

But whatever happens you have to resolve and discard the card at some point. And I don't feel what he said makes this not a valid item to bring up when discussing timing. It still shows an item in the same timing step using a modified value, rather than the original.

So either we are playing a game where not even the creator knows why or how things works so its completely pointless arguing anything because its just going to be resolved the way ffg wants.

Or some sort of atomic timing is the theory that fits the best, something ko and now rodent mastermind have been suggesting in another thread.

But until ffg produces a faq on the subject will will continue to debate this back and forth amongst ourselves until it becomes personal again.

One thing we can agree on is its not a good idea to ask complicated questions in the middle of a tournament and expect long complicated answers that will give satisfaction to us all.

The FAQ reads:

Both Fett's ability and Navigator resolve at the exact same time (when you reveal your dial), so you can indeed resolve both and in whatever order you wish. There is no ambiguity here.

The FAQ reads: Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same time, can he resolve them in any order?A: Yes. Both Fett's ability and Navigator resolve at the exact same time (when you reveal your dial), so you can indeed resolve both and in whatever order you wish. There is no ambiguity here.

That's not true. The ambiguity arises because both cards seem to refer to the manoeuvre that was revealed, not the manoeuvre currently on the dial, which would make it clearer.

What he said about "As far as the Stress test, it's always been a white maneuver." Matches what I've been saying about how when you come to resolve something you use the current value, as far as the second item resolved is concerned it's always been the modified value.

I don't agree. By the way James phrased it, the maneuver is ALWAYS white - not white by the time you check for the double red. Honestly, it raises the question of how AR can trigger at all - there must be SOME moment in time when it's red in order for AR to trigger at all, right?

For it work like you're thinking, it would directly contradict the rules we have. That is, simply, that when the conditions are met, the ability resolves. There's no re-check to ensure the trigger condition is still met during resolution. At least there isn't any listed in the rules, and that's a really major statement to try and infer from one example. And if we were, it's by no means the only possible explanation - I've said before I think this has more to do with "when" abilities, which treats them as ongoing effects that don't really have timing, and function across the whole of the time window they apply to. Taking Wedge ("When attacking") for instance - there isn't any point during the attack where the defender's agility is reduced; it's just always the low value. This would explain the AR result as well, and actually matches what James said.

But it is still only one example - as far as I can think of, we don't have any other cases where an intervening ability can remove the triggering condition. A single case like this would be iffy no matter what; with FFG's proven habit of "Because I Said So" rulings that don't match the actual rules, there's no way for us to know if this is the timing example you think it is, or another intent-based ruling that defies the laws of the universe to function.

Same goes for Fettigator. People seem to be taking a number of rulings we have and drawing VERY broad precedent from them when we don't even know for sure what the underlying reasoning is, or even whether there IS an underlying reasoning.

I think pulling any sort of precedent from these rulings, at least until we see them in the FAQ and hopefully get a little more explanation, is unreliable at best.

The FAQ reads: Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same time, can he resolve them in any order?A: Yes. Both Fett's ability and Navigator resolve at the exact same time (when you reveal your dial), so you can indeed resolve both and in whatever order you wish. There is no ambiguity here.

That's not true. The ambiguity arises because both cards seem to refer to the manoeuvre that was revealed, not the manoeuvre currently on the dial, which would make it clearer.

You reveal your maneuver at the same time as you reveal your maneuver. Excepting special relativity, this is a true statement.

Fett's ability triggers when you reveal your maneuver.

Navigator triggers when you reveal your maneuver.

You don't stop revealing your maneuver until you've resolved both of these, and you can resolve them in whatever order you wish.

The key is that you are still "revealing your maneuver" throughout the whole process. You haven't stopped revealing your maneuver until you move further into the Activation Phase.

There is a way to resolve this without odd timing issues, memory problems, or concerning yourself with any extensions, pauses, or adaptations of turn order. Each card indicates where it's activity occurs during the turn. For example, "when you reveal your maneuver". If two cards both indicate they go at the same time, the rules require the player to decide what order to resolve them in. So, lets say the player decides Fett should go first. Fettigator looks like this.

Activation Phase:

- Step 1: Reveal Dial. The player reveals a 1 R Bank.

- Fett resolves. It finds a Bank maneuver on the dial and changes its direction into a 1 L Bank.

- Navigator resolves. It finds a 1 Speed maneuver on the dial and changes it into a 3 L Bank.

- Step 2: Set Template:

...

and so on.

Alternately, the player could have decided that Navigator should go first because the rules allow him to resolve in any order he wishes.

Activation Phase:

- Step 1: Reveal Dial. The player reveals a 1 R Bank.

- Navigator Resolves. It finds a 1 speed maneuver on the dial and changes it into a 3 R Bank.

- Fett Resolves. It finds a Bank maneuver on the dial and changes it into a 3 L Bank.

- Step 2: Set Template:

...

and so on.

No "memory" required, no pauses, no interruptions. Each step is resolved in order, one at a time, completely. This works with EVERY single ability in the game, and is entirely consistent with EVERY FAQ answer so far.

Vader and Mauler both have Swarm Tactics? Ok, they are both supposed to happen at the beginning of the Combat Phase. The player sees they are both supposed to go off "at the same time", and according to the rules he decides Darth Vader's Swarm Tactics should go first.

Combat Phase:

- Darth Vader's Swarm Tactics sees Vader's PS is 9 and passes that to Mauler, making Mauler a PS 9 until the end of the combat phase.

- Maulers Swarm Tactics sees his PS is 9, and passes Mauler's PS 9 to Academy Pilot making him a PS 9 until the end of the combat phase.

- 1. Declare Target:

... and so on.

Adrenaline Rush versus Stress Checks. Both are supposed to go off "when we reveal a red maneuver". The player decides that Adrenaline Rush should go first.

Activation Phase:

- 1. Reveal Dial: A red maneuver is revealed.

- Adrenaline Rush. The maneuver is treated as a white maneuver until the end of the activation phase.

- Check Stress. The pilot is stressed, but the maneuver is white. Nothing happens.

- 2. Set Template:

... and so on.

All of this is completely consistent with the rules as written, and all of this is completely consistent with every FAQ answer we have received so far. No pauses, brackets, interruptions, fomer defenders or lingering memories of what things were like "originally" required.

The FAQ reads: Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same time, can he resolve them in any order?A: Yes. Both Fett's ability and Navigator resolve at the exact same time (when you reveal your dial), so you can indeed resolve both and in whatever order you wish. There is no ambiguity here.

That's not true. The ambiguity arises because both cards seem to refer to the manoeuvre that was revealed, not the manoeuvre currently on the dial, which would make it clearer.

You reveal your maneuver at the same time as you reveal your maneuver. Excepting special relativity, this is a true statement.

Fett's ability triggers when you reveal your maneuver.

Navigator triggers when you reveal your maneuver.

You don't stop revealing your maneuver until you've resolved both of these, and you can resolve them in whatever order you wish.

The key is that you are still "revealing your maneuver" throughout the whole process. You haven't stopped revealing your maneuver until you move further into the Activation Phase.

This is Star Wars....shouldn't the Stormtroopers be beating a dead Tauntaun?

This is Star Wars....shouldn't the Stormtroopers be beating a dead Tauntaun?

WAIT I HAVE A LEGO TAUNTAUN!!!!! I COULD BUILD THIS!!!!!

• Adrenal Rush, when you have a red maneuver on your dial and stress, both happen when you reveal your dial, but when you get to the check for red maneuvers it's no longer red due to the Adrenal Rush.

I know it's tangential, but this is not what was said about Adrenaline Rush.

James told me that Adrenaline Rush means that the maneuver is NEVER red in the first place.

What happans if Im using intelligence agent then it was red before you reviled it, then adrenaline rush has to work after its reviled, or I declare intelligence agent and then you declare adrenaline rush before I get to see your dial.

But either way the dial has to be red at somestage otherwise you cant use adrenaline rush to change it.

Maybe the better way to answer the adrenaline rush question is not the fact the dial was never red but a "revealed maneuver" refers to whatever is currently shown on the maneuver dial and not what was originally revealed.

So to answer the original topic no its not cheating, its allowed.

Maybe the better way to answer the adrenaline rush question is not the fact the dial was never red but a "revealed maneuver" refers to whatever is currently shown on the maneuver dial and not what was originally revealed.

So to answer the original topic no its not cheating, its allowed.

If it is indeed allowed then it seems to me that that has to be the case, and that "when you reveal your manoeuvre" refers to a period, not a moment.

I've played this combo. It can be fun, but it isn't as useful as you might think. In a 12 round game I only used it twice. The truth is, the rear fire arc makes it easy to keep the enemy in your sights, and the k-turn gets you past and back in the fight quick enough you don't worry about falling out of the fight. The two times I used the ability, once to adjust my fire arc and once to avoid a collision. The big problem with this combo is that casual turns are not always useful when trying to staying in the fight.