We've had a productive afternoon in the office arguing about Fettigator.

Boba Fett's text:

When you reveal a bank maneuver ( or ), you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed.

Navigator's text:

When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing. You cannot rotate to a red maneuver if you have any stress tokens.

To me it's quite clear that both of these action refer to the manouver that was on your dial when you revealed it, therefore you can't use Boba's ability to change direction followed by Navigator's ability to change speed, or vice versa.

How do y'all interpret this?

Yeah that's right, I called him fat, what you gonna do about it?!

There was a rulling from FFG that said yes you can do this.

There were no more details then that, they didn't say why it works, only that yes you can use both Boba Fett's and Navigators ability in the same turn.

If I were to guess, I'd say they mean that when you change the dial with either Fett or Navigator, you are in effect revealing the dial again, so that can trigger either Fett or Navigator. But again that's my take on it, not what they said...

Because all they said was "yes you can use both."

My interpretation of Fett/Navigator is that any effect that modifies the manuever dial is considered to have modified the manuever that you revealed. So, for example, if I reveal a 2 Left Bank for Fett, and decide to change it to a 2 Right Bank, I'm now considered to have revealed a 2 Right Bank. And the same goes for Navigator.

When multiple effects would be triggered, the controlling player gets to choose the order in which they resolve. So, in my mind, it plays out like this:

1) Fett (with Navigator) reveals a 2 Left Bank.

2) Both Fett and Navigator trigger.

3) I choose to resolve Fett first.

4) I've revealed a 2 Left Bank, and elect to rotate the dial to a 2 Right Bank. The fact that I ever revealed a 2 Left Bank is gone, and I'm now considered for all purposes to have revealed a 2 Right Bank.

5) I choose to resolve Navigator.

6) Seeing that I've revealed a 2 Right Bank, I elect to change it to a 1 Right Bank.

And, of course, Navigator and Fett can resolve similarly in either order.

There's nothing I'm aware of in the rules of FAQ that back this up, but it's what makes sense to me. Generally, locking in the state of a game when multiple effects trigger simultaneously is a bad idea, since it requires you to remember what that state was after possibly resolving several other effects that change that state.

So, my personal opinion is that state-based effects should be evaluated at the time they're resolved, not when they're triggered.

OK, they have said that it works, and I think this is why. After 3 or 4 rulings its becoming more and more likely that this game works by atomic timing, by the I mean when multiple things happen at the same time (in this case "when the dial is revealed") you freeze time. You then carry out the operations one at a time (as if you were a computer programer). Operations use the current state of an item when you get to resolving them, not the state when time froze.

So in this case

• You get to revealing the dial, you stop time. (At this point the dial says 1 )

• You choose to resolve Fett next.

  • You check to see if the dial is a bank

  • You change it to the opposite bank of the same speed (Now the dial says 1 )

• You choose to resolve Navigator

  • The dial is a 1 so you can choose to make it into any other speed right bank. You choose a 2

• You have no more operations so the phase unfreezes

All this happens in the split moment where you reveal the dial.

Other examples of this are things like

• Swarm Tactics, You can chain Swarm Tactics each time using the current modified speed rather than the original speed.
• Adrenal Rush, when you have a red maneuver on your dial and stress, both happen when you reveal your dial, but when you get to the check for red maneuvers it's no longer red due to the Adrenal Rush.

There's nothing I'm aware of in the rules of FAQ that back this up, but it's what makes sense to me. Generally, locking in the state of a game when multiple effects trigger simultaneously is a bad idea, since it requires you to remember what that state was after possibly resolving several other effects that change that state.

So, my personal opinion is that state-based effects should be evaluated at the time they're resolved, not when they're triggered.

It works well with some games, Magic does it very well. However, it's a bit like using a Sledgehammer to knock in a nail with this game. If I was designing a game which is designed for casual Star Wars fans as well as gamers, this is the timing system I would use.

How do y'all interpret this?

I interpret this to mean you can do both.

But, might as well start a 10-page thread about it.

Fettigator works as everyone uses it. The Die-roll modification rules do not apply to maneuver-wheel manipulation rules.

It was ruled by James kniffen at gencon that combining fetts ability and naviator is legal. There are treads about it on bgg, here, and team covenant.

Sweet, that's exciting! That kinda makes my mind up regarding my other thread, about what cool new Wave 3 stuff to use in a dual Firespray squad. People suggested Fettigator but I thought it sounded over-rated due to my interpretation fo the rules. Oooh, exciting.

The ruling has to do with a single trigger being able to activate multiple cards and resolve in any order.

Operations use the current state of an item when you get to resolving them, not the state when time froze.

This. Locking in state at trigger time is a logistical nightmare.

The ruling has to do with a single trigger being able to activate multiple cards and resolve in any order.

Actually we don't know that. We only know that the combo is legal, not why. We can't actually say that a single trigger can be used for more then action.

It can just as easily be said that using Fett or Nav effectively reveals the dial a 2nd time, so it's a whole new trigger that lets you use the other.

The ruling has to do with a single trigger being able to activate multiple cards and resolve in any order.

The ruling has to do with a single trigger being able to activate multiple cards and resolve in any order.

Actually we don't know that. We only know that the combo is legal, not why. We can't actually say that a single trigger can be used for more then action.

It can just as easily be said that using Fett or Nav effectively reveals the dial a 2nd time, so it's a whole new trigger that lets you use the other.

I believe it's because the word "may" is used for both actions.

I believe it's because the word "may" is used for both actions.

I beg to differ. "May" makes the effect optional. You do not have to use it. See rulebook page 19.

The discussions have been about which maneuver the 2nd effect changes: The maneuver originally revealed or the maneuver currently displayed on the movement dial.

FFG needs so address this issue in the next FAQ.

The short answer is "no, everyone is not cheating."

The longer answer is, as Hothie said, the game designer was cornered in person and forced to admit that it did work, but then pointed and yelled "Look - large base ships!" and used the excitement to slip away before Hothie could force him to explain how it works.

There are a couple of ways it could work, which in turn might have implications on how some other interactions work, but until we get an FAQ update or Hothie slips past security again and tackles him, we may not know for a while.

One version, as was stated above, is that they're simultaneous actions, resolving in either order you want. There are cases for and against this. It raises some questions but those would (hopefully) be quashed with a well-worded explanation in the FAQ.

The other version is that it's possible they could rule that that act of changing a dial from maneuver A to maneuver B counts as a second dial reveal. You reveal A, use, say Fett, to change to maneuver B, in effect "revealing" maneuver B, which then lets you activate Navigator, changing once more to maneuver C.

Both ways could work. Both would answer and raise some questions. I'm just hoping we get any actual context, and not just "Q: Is Fettigator legal? A: Yes."

(But smart money is on Hothie getting Kniffen bagged and into the back of a van - he's a slippery one)

Its actually all in the rule book about banking. There is no unclarity about this at all

I believe it's because the word "may" is used for both actions.

I beg to differ. "May" makes the effect optional. You do not have to use it. See rulebook page 19.

The discussions have been about which maneuver the 2nd effect changes: The maneuver originally revealed or the maneuver currently displayed on the movement dial.

FFG needs so address this issue in the next FAQ.

That's my point. It's optional and has no specific definition for order of execution (within the parameter of phase the effect takes place)

I believe it's because the word "may" is used for both actions.

I beg to differ. "May" makes the effect optional. You do not have to use it. See rulebook page 19.

The discussions have been about which maneuver the 2nd effect changes: The maneuver originally revealed or the maneuver currently displayed on the movement dial.

FFG needs so address this issue in the next FAQ.

That's my point. It's optional and has no specific definition for order of execution (within the parameter of phase the effect takes place)

There is no definition for order of execution even without the "may", they have stated if 2 items happen at the same time you may choose which order to execute them.

Its actually all in the rule book about banking. There is no unclarity about this at all

What page? Be great to clear this up for everyone.

• Adrenal Rush, when you have a red maneuver on your dial and stress, both happen when you reveal your dial, but when you get to the check for red maneuvers it's no longer red due to the Adrenal Rush.

I know it's tangential, but this is not what was said about Adrenaline Rush.

James told me that Adrenaline Rush means that the maneuver is NEVER red in the first place. It's not that both happen and you recheck for the "opponent picks" part - it's that AR makes it so it was always white, and the "opponent picks" rule never triggers at all.

A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding this, and extending it in some very iffy directions. I know what I think this is saying about how "When" abilities work, but we'll save that for another time.

Back to Fettigator: Yes, it works, no, we don't actually know why. Currently, I credit Vorpal Sword's read: "revealed maneuver" refers to the maneuver visible on the dial, even if and as that changes, not the maneuver you revealed. It's one of those odd cases where "revealed" works as either a noun or a verb. But we don't actually know that, and trying to draw any sort of precedent from it is pretty risky at this point.

Its actually all in the rule book about banking. There is no unclarity about this at all

What page? Be great to clear this up for everyone.

Yeah what do you mean 'about banking?' That is very confusing without any context.

Its actually all in the rule book about banking. There is no unclarity about this at all

No it's not in the rules about banking, there's been serveral threads about this here and on BGG's debating it back and forth.

There's no clear cut rules regarding this combo, and all 3 sides had compelling arguments reagarding it.

Side 1 - It works because a single trigger can activate more then one ablility.

Side 2 - It works because changing the dial is effectively revealing a new dial.

Side 3 - It doesn't work.

I know it's tangential, but this is not what was said about Adrenaline Rush.

• Adrenal Rush, when you have a red maneuver on your dial and stress, both happen when you reveal your dial, but when you get to the check for red maneuvers it's no longer red due to the Adrenal Rush.

James told me that Adrenaline Rush means that the maneuver is NEVER red in the first place. It's not that both happen and you recheck for the "opponent picks" part - it's that AR makes it so it was always white, and the "opponent picks" rule never triggers at all.

You keep saying this, but the card has to go in effect as some point of the "When the Dial is Revealed". Now all we can know is

1. It can go in effect before the Stress/Red check.
2. That the changed value of the the dial is what is checked when the ship has Stress, Which all happens in the "When the Dial is Revealed" phase

Which is more or less agrees with everything we have superpositioned about timing.