The Arch-Militant Special Ability, "Weapon Master", confers a +10% bonus to hit with one Class of weapon.

How do you judge this when it comes to Flame weapons? Flame weapons in Rogue Trader ("Spray" in others) doesn't do any Ballistic Rolls. You fire, and the enemy tries to avoid.

I have my own idea of how this would be judged, but I wanted to ask the rest of you first.

So, a missionary with a flamer couldn't care less for BS?

So, a missionary with a flamer couldn't care less for BS?

Nope. The Flame Special Quality is basically tailor-made for Melee-focused Missionaries.

But it doesn't work very well with the Arch-Militant's Special Ability, it would seem.

I would just say +10% to hit with flame = -10% to the target's agil test to avoid.

That's how I've handled it in the past; treating it as a ghetto Cleanse and Purify.

Well, thinking about it, it does say "+10% to hit " . It doesn't say +10 to Ballistic skill, just that it increases the chance to hit by 10% (by the d100 system, that's +/-10 depending on circumstance).

And +10% to hit would mean a -10 to the Enemies' dodge in this case.

Cheers.

Well, thinking about it, it does say "+10% to hit " . It doesn't say +10 to Ballistic skill, just that it increases the chance to hit by 10% (by the d100 system, that's +/-10 depending on circumstance).

And +10% to hit would mean a -10 to the Enemies' dodge in this case.

Cheers.

Important note: It's actually just an Agility test to avoid a flamer- You don't need the Dodge skill.

With that, Cleanse and Purify and Nephium fuel, you could be a pretty nasty debuffer or eldar hunter.

Well, thinking about it, it does say "+10% to hit " . It doesn't say +10 to Ballistic skill, just that it increases the chance to hit by 10% (by the d100 system, that's +/-10 depending on circumstance).

And +10% to hit would mean a -10 to the Enemies' dodge in this case.

Cheers.

Important note: It's actually just an Agility test to avoid a flamer- You don't need the Dodge skill.

Do note that after the free Ag test to aviod getting hit, you get the option of using your reaction to dodge flamers.

To not give the option to dodge makes Flamers more powerful than intended. As every other weapon you test to hit, then get a dodge attempt. Flamers replace the test to hit with a Ag test, then you should get the option to dodge after.

Well, thinking about it, it does say "+10% to hit " . It doesn't say +10 to Ballistic skill, just that it increases the chance to hit by 10% (by the d100 system, that's +/-10 depending on circumstance).

And +10% to hit would mean a -10 to the Enemies' dodge in this case.

Cheers.

Important note: It's actually just an Agility test to avoid a flamer- You don't need the Dodge skill.

With that, Cleanse and Purify and Nephium fuel, you could be a pretty nasty debuffer or eldar hunter.

I would consider getting Toxin-Saturated Promethium as well, for all those targets you know will be easy to hit anyway. Throwing around an extra 1d10 that can't be mitigated by armour or toughness would be amazing against all those small little crowds of scrubs.

Hmm, you guys ARE right, though I overlooked it...you would by the rules get a dodge chance after the initial agil test. My brain just edited that out.

*Haven't had flamers turn up much in my games yet, oddly enough.

I admit that I too had forgotten to take into account that one got an Agi test *and* a dodge test. Huh. I wish I had my rules on me so I could doublecheck.

Re: Discussion of check optimization: if you want to use fancy fuels, you miss out on the chance to use a Starflare Vent Plasma Cannon for even more damage and penetration (and consult your DM on how Maximal mode works on such a monstrosity)

You would have to make 3 Agility based test with Flame, Spray Weapons.

1. To see if you're Hit (Agility)

2. To see if you can Dodge it (Dodge)

3. To see if you catch fire (Agility)

Happy Rolling people.

Edit: Whoops forgot that this was in RT side of the Forum. Have been playing OW so much that forgot that RT had only Flame. But still you have to make those Three (3) rolls

Whether to Dodge or not though is up to the targets and the GM. I could see a value in delaying your turn just to let others fire first and have the enemy expend their Dodge (Reaction) Actions before making them play The Floor is Lava with you.

Another good idea is Overwatch. Overwatch is a full action that lets you fire into a designated killzone. It incurs a -20 to BS, but flame weapons doesn't use BS and it makes perfect sense that he could douse the entire killzone if raging promethium when the enemy pops their head out.

Won't specifically help against Dodging, but the thought came to me anyway.

I admit that I too had forgotten to take into account that one got an Agi test *and* a dodge test. Huh. I wish I had my rules on me so I could doublecheck.

Re: Discussion of check optimization: if you want to use fancy fuels, you miss out on the chance to use a Starflare Vent Plasma Cannon for even more damage and penetration (and consult your DM on how Maximal mode works on such a monstrosity)

Problem is that Cleanse & Purify specifically affects flamers. One could even make the argument that it doesn't affect hand or heavy flamers (though I doubt anyone will). It pretty clearly does not affect Starflare plasma weapons.

Another good idea is Overwatch. Overwatch is a full action that lets you fire into a designated killzone. It incurs a -20 to BS, but flame weapons doesn't use BS and it makes perfect sense that he could douse the entire killzone if raging promethium when the enemy pops their head out.

The issue is that in order to do overwatch you need a weapon capable of semi-auto burst or full-auto. All Flamers in RT are single shot only. The only way I know to get a semi-auto burst is deamon weapons in BC.

I admit that I too had forgotten to take into account that one got an Agi test *and* a dodge test. Huh. I wish I had my rules on me so I could doublecheck.

Re: Discussion of check optimization: if you want to use fancy fuels, you miss out on the chance to use a Starflare Vent Plasma Cannon for even more damage and penetration (and consult your DM on how Maximal mode works on such a monstrosity)

Problem is that Cleanse & Purify specifically affects flamers. One could even make the argument that it doesn't affect hand or heavy flamers (though I doubt anyone will). It pretty clearly does not affect Starflare plasma weapons.

I cannot properly convey how much I hate how the weapon class/type system works in the WH40kRP line and all the wonkyness associated with it when interacting with talents and whatnot.

Another good idea is Overwatch. Overwatch is a full action that lets you fire into a designated killzone. It incurs a -20 to BS, but flame weapons doesn't use BS and it makes perfect sense that he could douse the entire killzone if raging promethium when the enemy pops their head out.

The issue is that in order to do overwatch you need a weapon capable of semi-auto burst or full-auto. All Flamers in RT are single shot only. The only way I know to get a semi-auto burst is deamon weapons in BC.

I wonder what the rationale was when they decided to exclude Standard Attack in Rogue Trader, but I wonder doubly so what the rationale was to exclude Suppressive Fire from Only War.

I'd expect that you'd be do all four kinds of attacks during Overwatch.

But yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

Well, thinking about it, it does say "+10% to hit " . It doesn't say +10 to Ballistic skill, just that it increases the chance to hit by 10% (by the d100 system, that's +/-10 depending on circumstance).

And +10% to hit would mean a -10 to the Enemies' dodge in this case.

Cheers.

Important note: It's actually just an Agility test to avoid a flamer- You don't need the Dodge skill.

Do note that after the free Ag test to aviod getting hit, you get the option of using your reaction to dodge flamers.

To not give the option to dodge makes Flamers more powerful than intended. As every other weapon you test to hit, then get a dodge attempt. Flamers replace the test to hit with a Ag test, then you should get the option to dodge after.

This is true, but you also have to keep in mind the range/spread of the flamer. You can only dodge up to your Ag bonus in meters, so if you're hit with a cone of flame, it's possible that you wouldn't be able to dodge to the edges, and still get hit.I think for most characters they would have to be hit almost dead center for it to matter, and I rarely care enough to have that level of grid-mapping, but it is also something worth considering.

It's probably just badly written. That happens a lot in the WH40kRP line. But yeah, you're entirely correct. I think it's meant to refer to all weapons with the Flame Special Quality.

I cannot properly convey how much I hate how the weapon class/type system works in the WH40kRP line and all the wonkyness associated with it when interacting with talents and whatnot..

Given that one is vastly more powerful than the other and doesn't require an additional weapon training talent just to use it, I would argue that not being able to use Cleanse & Purify with it is a fair price. Not only that, but if you read the rules that liberally, the forge plate gets even sicker than it already is.