In the sense tree. PG 280 in the core rule book.

the first control states that.

CONTROL: Ongoing effect. Commit "1 force dice" Once per round when an attack targets the Force user, he upgrades the difficulty of the pool once.

further down it has another rank of control.

CONTROL: Ongoing effect. Commit "1 force dice". Once per round when the Force user makes a combat check, he upgrades the ability of that check once.

So would that mean that in order to benefit from both would he have to commit 2 force dice that round? Meaning that he has to at least be force rank of 2?

Or would he get both effects from comitting the one force die?

He would need to have 2 force die avaialble to him to pull it off. So the force user with 1 force point can use a force die for either attack or defense, but not both. Each force die committed is specific to that power.

...But I suppose it can change turn over turn...

He would need to have 2 force die avaialble to him to pull it off. So the force user with 1 force point can use a force die for either attack or defense, but not both. Each force die committed is specific to that power.

...But I suppose it can change turn over turn...

It can be changed, but you run into the problem of it costing your Action each turn to do so. So if you were to drop the defensive upgrade (which I'd treat as an Incidental), it'd take an Action activate the offensive upgrade, meaning you'd have to go a whole round before you could make use of it.

At Force Rating 1, you're better off picking one effect and sticking with it, either defensive to avoid getting your hind-quarters shot off or offensive to blast the other guys (hopefully) before they blast you.

That and my the time you have both, the defensive upgrade is enhanced to twice per round upgrade an incomming attack check twice. Makes the whole tree kind of beast!

Hi, guys. Still getting the hang of the forum, so maybe I could have searched for my question....

If committing force dice is cumulative in this fashion, does that mean that spending strain for other talents (like Dodge) is also cumulative?

I have a player in my campaign with a Force Rating of Two, Force Move, and three strength upgrades. From what I understand, to move something, he must spend:

Roll two force dice,
Spend 1 Force Point to activate the power (Level 1)
Spend 1 Force Point to move something of silhouette 3 or lower
(Sil 0 for base level, Sil 1 for strength 1, Sil 2 for Strength 2, and Sil 3 for Strength 3, right?.... a STARFIGHTER??!?)

My real question is this: Let's say he rolls maximum force points with two dice: Four light side points... Is he allowed to spend....

1 point to activate the power,
1 point to upgrade to his strength level (silhouette 3)
1 point to upgrade again? (silhouette 6)
1 final point to upgrade even again? (silhouette 9????!!!)

I've pored over the rules and it seems like a terribly strong power. Can anyone provide a page & paragraph for me to find something to the contrary?

Please tell me he can only spend two points. I can't have my player throwing Star Destroyers around. Very anticlimactic.

- James

James, it sure looks like, RAW, he can use the strength upgrade multiple times. I never thought of it that way, but the rules don't seem to disallow it. That said, I don't think you have to be worried about him tossing starships around (or very far) at Force Rating 2, because if he burns all his points upgrading his strength, he's only going to be able to move starships at short (personal) range.

Edit: In fact, I don't think that the current "Move" tree would ever let him move something that starts any farther away than short range. The range upgrades only allow the object to be moved farther and farther away from short range.

It can be changed, but you run into the problem of it costing your Action each turn to do so. So if you were to drop the defensive upgrade (which I'd treat as an Incidental), it'd take an Action activate the offensive upgrade, meaning you'd have to go a whole round before you could make use of it.

At Force Rating 1, you're better off picking one effect and sticking with it, either defensive to avoid getting your hind-quarters shot off or offensive to blast the other guys (hopefully) before they blast you.

Are you positive it requires your action to turn that on? It doesn't seem like it should. I understand that activating a force power uses an action, and it should for some things but just for a buff type ability?

What would you do then. Use your action to turn in on, then use your movement to go prone behind a rock for that round? It just doesn't seem right.

It can be changed, but you run into the problem of it costing your Action each turn to do so. So if you were to drop the defensive upgrade (which I'd treat as an Incidental), it'd take an Action activate the offensive upgrade, meaning you'd have to go a whole round before you could make use of it.

At Force Rating 1, you're better off picking one effect and sticking with it, either defensive to avoid getting your hind-quarters shot off or offensive to blast the other guys (hopefully) before they blast you.

Are you positive it requires your action to turn that on? It doesn't seem like it should. I understand that activating a force power uses an action, and it should for some things but just for a buff type ability?

What would you do then. Use your action to turn in on, then use your movement to go prone behind a rock for that round? It just doesn't seem right.

You're activating the effect of a Force Power, thus it's an Action per the rules on activating Force Power effects.

So if he's caught be surprise, you're player is going to need to spend at least one Action to get at least one of the Sense Ongoing Effects up and running. Given how powerful these can get, that's a fair trade off. The player is simply going to have to decide if it's more important to attack that first round of combat or to get his defenses in place. Seeing as to how potent Sense's Ongoing Effects can be when used in conjunction, having to spend a separate Action to turn each one of them on is a fair exchange.

Actually, if you read the Strength Upgrades text on page 284 in regards to the Move power, the PC can't activate those Strength Upgrades more than once. Each Upgrade that can be triggered multiple times have text that says exactly that; for instance the Range Upgrade and Magnitude Upgrade both have a sentence that explicitly say they can be activated multiple times. As the Strength Upgrade doesn't have that text, then it can only be activated once.

As for the Range Upgrades, I'd have said that it allows the Force-user to affect targets that are beyond short range, but re-reading the text of the basic effect, it does seem that the object has to start within short range of you, and the Range Upgrades only effect how far you can move the object away from you. Which is odd, as I'd say that Yoda was well outside of short range when he lifted Luke's X-Wing in ESB (heck, so was Luke and he at least managed to partially lift it). Then again, Yoda's a Jedi Master so probably has some ability that let him extend the base range from short.

Actually, if you read the Strength Upgrades text on page 284 in regards to the Move power, the PC can't activate those Strength Upgrades more than once. Each Upgrade that can be triggered multiple times have text that says exactly that; for instance the Range Upgrade and Magnitude Upgrade both have a sentence that explicitly say they can be activated multiple times.

You're right that the Range/Magnitude texts would seem to indicate exclusion by virtue of clarification, but the Strength upgrade doesn't specifically prohibit it, and text on page 278 indicates that "Unless specified otherwise, each ability may be activated multiple times."

It could be a misreading on my part and, as you mentioned, the inclusion of the text in other upgrades would seem to indicate a reason for its absence - so I suspect your interpretation is correct. My answer is definitely borne out of just what the Strength text specifically says, though (which doesn't "specify otherwise" that it can't be activated multiple times).

Yeah, I'd go with the specific text under Move's Strength Upgrade than the bit on 278. Sadly, this is hardly the only area where the rules contradict themselves (whether cover provides +1 to Ranged Defense or just Ranged Defense 1 is a very prominent one).