1) Mars comes first, RT dinasty second.

2) I have no idea, interesting question.

3) I think the worst they can do is excommunicate the Dinasty (removing all support they have for it) and try to get the dinasty condemned also by the inquisition - if that second doesn't happen, this merely means the RT would have to find other mechanics to operate his ship (like hereteks, what would eventually mean also a problem with the inquisition) next time he is in port. But I wouldn't rule-out the mechanicus trying to take an specially sacred ship by force though if the RT dinasty displeases them enough.

It'd take some pretty high authority to completely shut the RT off from Mechanicus services. There are tech-priests *everywhere*, and not all forge worlds agree with one another, nor is there any guarantee that word of their excommunication can be spread to every tech-priest in the sector. It seems much more likely that the RT would be banned from a given forge world.

Of course, the issue is open to interpretation.

Thanks for the replies.

Question: The original Treaty of Mars, brokered by the Emperor himself, stated that the Mechs would build and maintain the tech of the imperium in exchange for, lets be honest here, his not laying waste to them. Now, being that the rules describe RTs as having equal rank to Inquisitors and Space Marine Chapter Masters, would the Mechs denying him service be heresy in and of itself, subject to investigation and, lets be honest again, execution by the Ordo Hereticus (or the RT himself if he's feeling froggy)?

Edit: Not execution of an entire forge world/faction obviously, but whatever individuals were denying him service. Followed of course by a polite message to said forge world that he had discovered and dealt with heretics in their midst, and he looks forward to prosperous dealings with them in the future.

Hello.

I have some questions about the Adeptus Mechanicus (hereafter abbriviated as "mechs"), their factions, and how they relate to Rogue Traders.

First, for the mechs stationed on board a RT's ship or otherwise working for his dynasty, is it expected that their first loyalty be to the dynasty, or to Mars? In other words, do they take the oaths of service like any others would, or are they "contracted out" by the Mechs? Obviously in either case they would (barring hereteks and whatever) still pay homage to the Omnisiah...

*cough*

To answer your question, it depends on who you ask. The Lord-Captain or the Rogue Trader will certainly demand that the resident Enginseers and the Tech-Priests are loyal to the Dynasty first and foremost. And it is possible that most of them might even profess their undying loyalty to the Dynasty, and whether they swear an oath is likely highly individual, ship-to-ship or planet-to-planet.

That being said, any Lord-Captain that would truly trust that all of the members of the Cult Mechanicus are loyal to him would be a complete and utter fool. Likewise, the norm would likely be that the members of the AdMech would consider themselves loyal to the Mechanicus first and foremost. Like humans, however, it is unlikely that the majority of them would sacrifice themselves for this loyalty (in a conflict involving fighting the Mechanicus, for example). Like everyone else on the ship, most would fight for their own lives in such a battle. But it's a great foundation for on-ship seditionism in anticipation of or in the wake of such a confrontation.

And many ships essentially have self-contained colonies of tech-priests, lexmechanics and the like, but yes, the AdMech essentially contracts their services. If a ship is in dire need of mechanics following a core breach or some other fun thing, they would have to petition the AdMech for replacements, and there is no guarantee that this would come freely or cheaply.

Second, while I am aware the mechanicus can be as factional as any other imperial body, details of said factions seem to elude me in my research. In particular I am looking for the more "radical", but still accepted, factions. Especially those with an interest into research into xenos and xenotechnology. I am aware that the mechanicus "party line" is "xeno-tech bad", but by the same token what little I have found in my research gives reference to mechs dedicated to the study of these, and makes mention of "xenos-friendly forge worlds".

Calixian Malatek w/ The Power Without might be of interest, since they are Malateks studying Xenos. There's also Acolyte of Abraxus in The Navis Primer. For factions, the Hippocrasian Agglomeration studies xenos biology, as far as I know.

Thing is, the Adeptus Mechancius legally studies xenos artefacts, xenos biology and xenos weaponry. It's one of their mandates and they are the only ones that can legally do so. It's a bit of a grey area, and you should certainly be careful, but it's not as clear-cut as in the Imperium or the Inquisition. When encountering xenos remnants, you are fully within your right to say "I need that for.. safekeeping.. and.. categorization" . Now, being in the employ of a Rogue Trader, he also have much greater rights to all these kinds of things, but the point still stands.

Finally, and this is an odd question...can the mechanicus strip a rogue trader of his ship? This is without him being brought down by the inquisition for (insert heresy here), or having his warrant stripped, or anything like that. Just "We think your ship is especially holy, hand it over. Here's a new ship without all the archeotech that your old one had"? If they can't flat out force the issue, can they (the faction involved, if not the mechs as a whole)"shun" him, refusing his ship repairs, etc? Or would such actions be hindering a duly appointed (and extremely high ranking) imperial servant in his duties, and thus be classified as heresy and/or violation of the original Treaty of Mars?

Thanks for any and all replies.

But an upset Magos can definitely attempt to rally the faithful against him, try to enforce an embargo, turn his loyal subjects (i.e. the enginseers in the enginerium) against him and whatnot. But in the end, even that might be hard, because the individual tech-priests consider technology sacred, and would perhaps fix the ship up, if not as a matter of pride, then for the sake of the ship itself.

Other tech-priests or a rival Magos might offer their services in turn, in exchange for getting access to said archeotech. Not to mention all those AdMechs still onboard the ship that have daily access to these priceless holy relics, truly blessed by the Omnissiah, to be allowed to bask in the presence of his mechanical glory.

So there's a lot of things that can happen, but if you have a group, remember that there's a bunch of facets to consider that might make it easier on them, while there still being a big wad of trouble and issues you can throw at them for pissing off the AdMech. The AdMech is an incredibly powerful faction and a Magos with a lot of pull might make a daunting antagonist.

If push comes to shove, there's no reason the AdMech can't show up with a fleet of incredibly powerful ships, if they consider it worth it. They might make him an offer he just can't refuse, so to speak, to at least appear as a legal transaction.

Thanks for the replies.

Question: The original Treaty of Mars, brokered by the Emperor himself, stated that the Mechs would build and maintain the tech of the imperium in exchange for, lets be honest here, his not laying waste to them. Now, being that the rules describe RTs as having equal rank to Inquisitors and Space Marine Chapter Masters, would the Mechs denying him service be heresy in and of itself, subject to investigation and, lets be honest again, execution by the Ordo Hereticus (or the RT himself if he's feeling froggy)?

There's an argument to be made, but I doubt that anyone would attempt to enforce such a weak point, save perhaps the Rogue Trader himself.

And if you get the Inquisition involved, you'd need to have considerable pull. An Inquisition isn't going to go toe-to-toe with the Adeptus Mechanicus unless there is very, very, very good reason to do so. Technically speaking, by the Treaty of Mars, the Adeptus Mechanicus does not only have the right to technology (which could be argued to include the ship in question) but is a separate empire, not part of the Imperium itself, and as such, there's yet another argument to be made on the subject, as to whether they would even be legal subjects to the whim of the Inquisition, especially since the Inquisition concerns itself with the Imperial Cult, the faithful of the Imperium, and Ecclesiarchal law; all of which the Adeptus Mechanicus is at least nominally exempt from.

Even the original Treaty of Mars stipulates that the Cult Mechanicus is allowed to keep their religion, which was the opposite of what the Emperor ever wanted, since he wanted to eradicate religion by means of the "Imperial Truth".

That said, apart from pissing the AdMechs off (immensely so), if the Rogue Trader is outside of the Imperium, there's nothing legally preventing him from just acting like a **** and blowing the AdMechs out of the sky, Inquisitor-style, because as long as he's outside of the Imperium, he's a Peer of the Imperium, with equal legal status as that of, say, Chapter Masters or Inquisitors, and is considered to "Speak with the voice of the Emperor outside the Imperium".

In effect, it comes down not to legality, but what kind of firepower and political pull you have to back it up. The AdMech Magos can say "By the Treaty of Mars, we have right to this vessel in the name of the Omnissiah and the divine God-Emperor of Mankind, by article 5, chapter 91, The Transfer of Technology as per Eminent Domain, section 8!" . The Rogue Trader will say "Nu-uh!" and then the game is on.

What's interesting about the Imperium is, I think, that it is quite often a political power play between the different Adepta, anywhere, even inside the borders. And even between individual Adepts, or Inquisitors. A clever Rogue Trader may use this to his or her advantage - or they may be taken advantage of.

Even the original Treaty of Mars stipulates that the Cult Mechanicus is allowed to keep their religion, which was the opposite of what the Emperor ever wanted, since he wanted to eradicate religion by means of the "Imperial Truth".

Ehh, only if one were to go by the Black Library Horus Heresy novels, which don't synch too well with the GW core studio's own writings on a number of details. In the Index Astartes article about the Word Bearers, for example, the Emperor was said to give a rat's ass about his Marines suddenly starting to propagate religion - he just saw it as a waste of time and complained that the Legion should get moving again and conquer something rather than wasting resources. I think this "roar I hate religion" stuff is purely an invention of those BL freelancers writing on the HH series, and so far it seems to get ignored by the Codex writers just like a lot of other stuff they came up with (Sisters of Silence, anyone? Perpetuals?).

Though I have to admit that "The Last Church" was an awesome short story.

Just pointing out the discrepancies, though. In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves which source they are preferring. There is no canon, everything and nothing is true, blah blah, you know the deal.

(no-one is going to take Ollanius Pius away from me! keep your hands off, BL authors )

[...]

(no-one is going to take Ollanius Pius away from me! keep your hands off, BL authors )

If I could fit it into my signature, I would add Ollanius Pius is my only Spiritual Liege .

Authority...as said, it will vary from situation to situation. Theoretically, the Tech-priests first duty is to the Omnissiah and the Machine God, which, as said, would normally mean Mars. Whether he sees that duty as flowing down (at a more practical and immediate level) through his forge world of origin, or through the warrant-holder as the Omnissiah's direct proxy, though, will vary from individual to individual but he certainly has authority and legal grounds to stand on either way.

After all, the fact that a tech-priest is a bit of an odd-ball who doesn't take the Mechanicus' religious hierarchy as seriously as his rank would normally require is a perfect reason why he might be... encouraged ...to join the Collegia Explorator. And go off on long tech-quest voyages. For months at a time. A long way away.

Plenty of Explorators have about as much to do with Mars as Indiana Jones has to do with the Smithsonian...

As to pressure the mechanicus can exert...depends how big a deal they see things as being, and if you're dealing with them as an organisation or just an individual within that organisation. If they really, really want to make a point as an organisation, black-listing the Dynasty and not providing support will make it a real bear to keep a major starship operation, not to mention that the mechanicus has the influence to try and (for example) direct inquisitorial scrutiny at this ship/artefact/whatever. Pulling this off would require, as noted, the dynasty to have royally irritated a very senior Archmagos, though. That said, even pulling the support of a single forge or demense which is particularly important to the Dynasty's holdings could cause catastrophic problems for a dynasty's profit and bottom line.

That said, apart from pissing the AdMechs off (immensely so), if the Rogue Trader is outside of the Imperium, there's nothing legally preventing him from just acting like a **** and blowing the AdMechs out of the sky, Inquisitor-style, because as long as he's outside of the Imperium, he's a Peer of the Imperium, with equal legal status as that of, say, Chapter Masters or Inquisitors, and is considered to "Speak with the voice of the Emperor outside the Imperium".

The balance of power thus established encourages politeness between all important political factions and restrains infighting to much tidier and generally more socially acceptible insults, petty point-scoring and occasional assassinations.

In particular I am looking for the more "radical", but still accepted, factions. Especially those with an interest into research into xenos and xenotechnology. I am aware that the mechanicus "party line" is "xeno-tech bad", but by the same token what little I have found in my research gives reference to mechs dedicated to the study of these, and makes mention of "xenos-friendly forge worlds".

Have a look for a .pdf called " Explorator Warbands ". It was written by Gav Thorpe for the Inquisitor wargame, and lists several philosophical factions of the Adeptus Mechanicus, akin to the Thorian/Amalathian/Xanthite/etc splits in the Inquisition.

Examples are given such as the Organicisists, who prefer bio-tech to augmetics, along with a sort of mechanicus equivalent to the Thorians (who aren't happy with the inefficiencies of random chance, and hence want to build a new host for the Omnissiah).

* Example: Archmagos Veneratus Kotov in Lords Of Mars (although bear in mind this man is one of the senior Magi of the entire Adeptus Mechanicus):

Accusatory cretin: "This man's warrant of trade is a forgery!"

Archmagos: "No it isn't."

Warrant Holder: "Err...yes it is, actually. Sorry. Please don't..."

Archmagos: "No it isn't. Because I realised that it was, and arranged the issue of a genuine warrant of trade with the same backdated details to avoid precisely these problems."

Warrant Holder: "...drag my crew into it though.....wait...you...did...what?!?!"

Archmagos: "I believe 'thank you' is the correct term."

(Kotov is, in fact, utterly awesome. If you haven't read the Priests Of Mars series, I recommend it.)

Hello.

I have some questions about the Adeptus Mechanicus (hereafter abbriviated as "mechs"), their factions, and how they relate to Rogue Traders.

First, for the mechs stationed on board a RT's ship or otherwise working for his dynasty, is it expected that their first loyalty be to the dynasty, or to Mars? In other words, do they take the oaths of service like any others would, or are they "contracted out" by the Mechs? Obviously in either case they would (barring hereteks and whatever) still pay homage to the Omnisiah...

Second, while I am aware the mechanicus can be as factional as any other imperial body, details of said factions seem to elude me in my research. In particular I am looking for the more "radical", but still accepted, factions. Especially those with an interest into research into xenos and xenotechnology. I am aware that the mechanicus "party line" is "xeno-tech bad", but by the same token what little I have found in my research gives reference to mechs dedicated to the study of these, and makes mention of "xenos-friendly forge worlds".

Finally, and this is an odd question...can the mechanicus strip a rogue trader of his ship? This is without him being brought down by the inquisition for (insert heresy here), or having his warrant stripped, or anything like that. Just "We think your ship is especially holy, hand it over. Here's a new ship without all the archeotech that your old one had"? If they can't flat out force the issue, can they (the faction involved, if not the mechs as a whole)"shun" him, refusing his ship repairs, etc? Or would such actions be hindering a duly appointed (and extremely high ranking) imperial servant in his duties, and thus be classified as heresy and/or violation of the original Treaty of Mars?

Thanks for any and all replies.

1.) Omnissiah 1st, Dynasty 2nd. That said, the Rogue Trader arranges for his AdMech, so they are likely to be favorable to his way of doing things. Also, I believe the Tech-Priests would put up with quite a lot to have their emissaries there, on the front line, with the Rogue Trader, exploring ruins that haven't been trodden by Human feet in millennia, if ever.

2.) Hard to be sure. I can't name any, but there are many AdMechs whose job it is to gather and study xenos tech. Some of it is even cleared for real use, occasionally. They might slap the name Archeotech on, occasionally, just to put others at ease, but...

3.) The biggie. The religion of the AdMech, as I understand it, is a combination of worshiping the Omnissiah and a C'Tan. They'll be surprised when the Void Dragon gets up, eventually, and with some of the highest, least-seen Magos being almost as mechanical as a Necron, I don't think things will go well for the Milky Way, if they have already given their souls, like the Necrontyr, just quietly.

Also, I understand it that the AdMech's treaty says that they can worship the Omnissiah, AND that they are to see the Emperor of Mankind as a living embodiment of the Omnissiah. That way, they stay autonomous, but connected. As such, a Rogue Trader, one who "speaks with the voice of the Emperor", and is permitted to have one of more of his holy vessels, among the greatest creations the Tech-Priests can make, would have a lot of say in the AdMech's behavior. They aren't hide-bound to obey, but they have lots of good reason to.

As for taking a ship, I don't think so. The AdMech don't often set stuff on a shelf. If the RT is flying his archeotech ship, it is functioning, and viable for study. TheAdMech aboard have ample access to everything, and can see what works, how it works, et al. While the organization might want to have it, the resident AdMechs, who might otherwise not be important enough to get to research such devices, wouldn't likely want it seized, so that THEIR chance to research it, and get "published" within their religion would remain. On the whole, so long as it is researched, and used in an acceptable way, the AdMech as a whole are probably fine with it as is, and the TP on the ship will share what he feels like, and get ahead. That's how Magos are made, just like important scientists, today; you gotta get published.

Authority...as said, it will vary from situation to situation. Theoretically, the Tech-priests first duty is to the Omnissiah and the Machine God, which, as said, would normally mean Mars. Whether he sees that duty as flowing down (at a more practical and immediate level) through his forge world of origin, or through the warrant-holder as the Omnissiah's direct proxy, though, will vary from individual to individual but he certainly has authority and legal grounds to stand on either way.

After all, the fact that a tech-priest is a bit of an odd-ball who doesn't take the Mechanicus' religious hierarchy as seriously as his rank would normally require is a perfect reason why he might be... encouraged ...to join the Collegia Explorator. And go off on long tech-quest voyages. For months at a time. A long way away.

Plenty of Explorators have about as much to do with Mars as Indiana Jones has to do with the Smithsonian...

As to pressure the mechanicus can exert...depends how big a deal they see things as being, and if you're dealing with them as an organisation or just an individual within that organisation. If they really, really want to make a point as an organisation, black-listing the Dynasty and not providing support will make it a real bear to keep a major starship operation, not to mention that the mechanicus has the influence to try and (for example) direct inquisitorial scrutiny at this ship/artefact/whatever. Pulling this off would require, as noted, the dynasty to have royally irritated a very senior Archmagos, though. That said, even pulling the support of a single forge or demense which is particularly important to the Dynasty's holdings could cause catastrophic problems for a dynasty's profit and bottom line.

That said, apart from pissing the AdMechs off (immensely so), if the Rogue Trader is outside of the Imperium, there's nothing legally preventing him from just acting like a **** and blowing the AdMechs out of the sky, Inquisitor-style, because as long as he's outside of the Imperium, he's a Peer of the Imperium, with equal legal status as that of, say, Chapter Masters or Inquisitors, and is considered to "Speak with the voice of the Emperor outside the Imperium".

With due warning and understanding, of course, that a senior Archmagos of the Mechanicus is also amongst the 'Peer Of The Imperium Club' and perfectly capable of pulling the same level of authority on him* - the senior members of the Mechanicus are massively, massively influential individuals, and ultimately report up to one of the few permenant High Lords of Terra (the Fabricator General). More importantly (since I agree whole with Fgdsfg's point about firepower), the Mechanicus is one of the few factions of the Imperium other than the Navy who can turn up with a bigger, better armed ship than the Rogue Trader if they really wish to make a point.

The balance of power thus established encourages politeness between all important political factions and restrains infighting to much tidier and generally more socially acceptible insults, petty point-scoring and occasional assassinations.

In particular I am looking for the more "radical", but still accepted, factions. Especially those with an interest into research into xenos and xenotechnology. I am aware that the mechanicus "party line" is "xeno-tech bad", but by the same token what little I have found in my research gives reference to mechs dedicated to the study of these, and makes mention of "xenos-friendly forge worlds".

Have a look for a .pdf called " Explorator Warbands ". It was written by Gav Thorpe for the Inquisitor wargame, and lists several philosophical factions of the Adeptus Mechanicus, akin to the Thorian/Amalathian/Xanthite/etc splits in the Inquisition.

Examples are given such as the Organicisists, who prefer bio-tech to augmetics, along with a sort of mechanicus equivalent to the Thorians (who aren't happy with the inefficiencies of random chance, and hence want to build a new host for the Omnissiah).

* Example: Archmagos Veneratus Kotov in Lords Of Mars (although bear in mind this man is one of the senior Magi of the entire Adeptus Mechanicus):

Accusatory cretin: "This man's warrant of trade is a forgery!"

Archmagos: "No it isn't."

Warrant Holder: "Err...yes it is, actually. Sorry. Please don't..."

Archmagos: "No it isn't. Because I realised that it was, and arranged the issue of a genuine warrant of trade with the same backdated details to avoid precisely these problems."

Warrant Holder: "...drag my crew into it though.....wait...you...did...what?!?!"

Archmagos: "I believe 'thank you' is the correct term."

(Kotov is, in fact, utterly awesome. If you haven't read the Priests Of Mars series, I recommend it.)

I liked Priests of Mars and Loved Lords of Mars. Can't wait for Gods of Mars.

That part with Kotov was epic. Shows that not all AdMech Magos are assholes (although he had his own agenda for doing this)

It's a very good book to read - especially for rogue trader players - as it's essentially an Imperial expedition out into wildspace; admittedly an Explorator Quaestor fleet with a Rogue Trader Dynasty tagging along, rather than the other way around.

Amongst other things, you have all the different Imperial factions making snide comments, bickering, and joking but actually working together rather than trying to stab one another in the back at the first opportuning as is more normal in 40k books.

I also love the fact that whilst other Magi might have a ballistic mechadendrite, or a laspistol, or some similar sophisticated and discrete weapon implant, Kotov apparently has a belt fed minigun concealed in his upper torso. Overkill is, as they say, underrated.

Can the members of Mechanicus get married or must they go through a vow of chastity and recruit new meat to replace losses

There's a short story about the son of a tech-priest being raised as an apprentice, can't recall anything about marriage rites or what have you. Senior magi would doubtless lose interest in physical couplings, but beyond that you're no doubt free to pursue whatever path suits your purposes.

In Lords of Mars one Charcter has cloned himself, to gain an apprentice. Other Tech-priest scoff this idea as this only creates "emotional" bond between him and his "offspring" that might crunch his efficiency.

So I wouldn't say they have to make vow of chastity as more metal they add to their bodies the more distanced they become from human emotions.

This sounds like one of those deep details where you're bound to hear different things in every book you read.

Personally, I agree with Errant and Routa-maa, though. The chastity bit would come naturally the further they progress on the sacred path of their Machine God's faith, replacing more and more flesh with mechanical components and shedding human emotion as they shed flesh. This is what they believe in, so it stands to reason that most Tech-Priests would aim to emulate this by being chaste even without any rules. Of course, most does not have to mean all, but the effects of such bonding on the Tech-Priest's efficiency or his/her superior's opinion of it would surely reflect on their records and standing within the organisation.

This sounds like one of those deep details where you're bound to hear different things in every book you read.

Agreed.

Even in the same source, there will be conflict. Remember that the Cult Mechanicus is a religion, with at least as much variation in fine details as the Temple Of The Saviour Emperor (AKA the Ecclesiarchy).

Unless you're into the fundamentals (as covered by the Sixteen Universal Laws*), saying what 'a tech-priest' is allowed to do is pretty meaningless without being specific about his role and/or forge of origin, because some will, some won't.

Certainly a suitably augmetic techpriest will have lost any inclination and capability to have children but (a) as noted, cloning is still a possibility and (b) let's be honest they are nigh-on functionally immortal anyway.

Oh - That stuff on Mechanicus Factions: I found it the other day.

Khamrians - Radicals, who focus on Artificial Intelligence

Organicists - Biotech fanatics

Omnissiads - Looking to create a new 'body' for the omnissiah.

Imperio-Cognisticians - see the imperium as a whole as a 'divine computing machine', with a subtext that they are quite happy to replace inefficiant parts (think of them as mechanicus recongregators)

Scions of Moirae - can't remember exactly what the debate was, but it was significant to be considered a 'schism', even engulfing a sizeable portion of the Iron Hands chapter, but polite enough that it didn't come to violence.

* These are the Mechanicus' equivalent of the Ten Commandments, and are as follows:

The Mysteries

• 01. Life is directed motion.
• 02. The spirit is the spark of life.
• 03. Sentience is the ability to learn the value of knowledge.
• 04. Intellect is the understanding of knowledge.
• 05. Sentience is the basest form of Intellect.
• 06. Understanding is the True Path to Comprehension.
• 07. Comprehension is the key to all things.
• 08. The Omnissiah knows all, comprehends all.

The Warnings

• 09. The alien mechanism is a perversion of the True Path.*
• 10. The soul is the conscience of sentience.
• 11. A soul can be bestowed only by the Omnissiah.**
• 12. The Soulless sentience is the enemy of all life.**
• 13. The knowledge of the ancients stands beyond question.***
• 14. The Machine Spirit guards the knowledge of the Ancients.
• 15. Flesh is fallible, but ritual honours the Machine Spirit.
• 16. To break with ritual is to break with faith.***

* Note that this isn't 'suffer not to live' but implies (to the more radical magi) that the machine spirits bound in xenos devices can be redeemed/rescued and put to serve the greater glory of humanity and the omnissiah. The hard-liners, of course, disagree, and believe that xenotech should be incinerated at the first opportuninty.

** Put together these are usually taken to be a warning against AI. The 'soul bestowed by the omnissiah' bit is why the Mechanicus uses things like servitors - there's a (lobotomised) human brain at the heart of it, so there's a soul, so it's okay.

*** Put together, a lot of more orthodox magi take these as a prohibition against innovation. Again, many disagree, pointing to the fact that the last four are a set, believing it to be about maintaining old devices, not creating new ones.

Can the members of Mechanicus get married or must they go through a vow of chastity and recruit new meat to replace losses

Chastity in 40k is apparently not a thing .

I always took this as humanity valuing procreation. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they "value every single life", but I think that while it may seem like the Imperium (And the AdMech) is just throwing away bodies willy-nilly, the going currency of the galaxy really is human life.

And that's the story of how Meretrix Verdictum was sentenced to a Penal Regiment for sexual recidivism.

I'd imagine, as many have said, most of the high ranking magos would lose interest. But not all. Depends on what parts they have cut away, obviously, and the personality of the priests involved. (The one AdMech woman from the second Cain omnibus comes to mind immediately).

And of course all bets are off with the Magos Biologis.

...they "value every single life"...

Oh, I agree. The masters of the administratum clearly know the value of human life.

To the nearest throne, anyway....

...they "value every single life"...

Oh, I agree. The masters of the administratum clearly know the value of human life.

To the nearest throne, anyway....

+1

First, for the mechs stationed on board a RT's ship or otherwise working for his dynasty, is it expected that their first loyalty be to the dynasty, or to Mars?

Second, while I am aware the mechanicus can be as factional as any other imperial body, details of said factions seem to elude me in my research.

Finally, and this is an odd question...can the mechanicus strip a rogue trader of his ship? This is without him being brought down by the inquisition for (insert heresy here), or having his warrant stripped, or anything like that. Just "We think your ship is especially holy, hand it over. Here's a new ship without all the archeotech that your old one had"? If they can't flat out force the issue, can they (the faction involved, if not the mechs as a whole)"shun" him, refusing his ship repairs, etc? Or would such actions be hindering a duly appointed (and extremely high ranking) imperial servant in his duties, and thus be classified as heresy and/or violation of the original Treaty of Mars?

1. It'd be expected that their loyalty would be to mars, first and foremost. However, a suitably charismatic RT could probably earn the loyalty of an Explorator, particularly a radical one.

2. The Lathe Worlds features a number of sects. I seem to recall there being a group called something like the Magos Lux, who're constantly building lasweapons because they are dedicated to the pursuit of a perfect, cleansing light. They're not really considered radical though.

3. Yes and no and yes. The admech *could* argue that they have a greater right to archeotech than he did. But it's not like the rogue trader would just hand over his ship. You have to keep in mind that 40K operates on a feudal-ish system, where "the law is in my favor" doesn't so much mean that you're going to get what you want as that after the fight you can claim you were only trying to do the right thing. That said, the Admech has the biggest, best-equipped ships, so they might be the wrong group to try to argue with.

On the other hand, rogue traders tend to be crazy , so it's likely that they'd try to resolve things peacefully, and, as mentioned above, maybe just make regular pilgrimages to the ship, or make a deal where it periodically stops in for free repairs and while it's being repaired they swarm over the artifacts and ogle them.

(no-one is going to take Ollanius Pius away from me! keep your hands off, BL authors )

To be fair, at least the BL authors *acknowledge* the OP, even if they do weird crap that kinda misses the point. Don't the more recent codexes replace him with a legion of Terminators or something?

Khamrians - Radicals, who focus on Artificial Intelligence

Organicists - Biotech fanatics

Omnissiads - Looking to create a new 'body' for the omnissiah.

Imperio-Cognisticians - see the imperium as a whole as a 'divine computing machine', with a subtext that they are quite happy to replace inefficiant parts (think of them as mechanicus recongregators)

Scions of Moirae - can't remember exactly what the debate was, but it was significant to be considered a 'schism', even engulfing a sizeable portion of the Iron Hands chapter, but polite enough that it didn't come to violence.

* These are the Mechanicus' equivalent of the Ten Commandments, and are as follows:

The Mysteries

• 01. Life is directed motion.
• 02. The spirit is the spark of life.
• 03. Sentience is the ability to learn the value of knowledge.
• 04. Intellect is the understanding of knowledge.
• 05. Sentience is the basest form of Intellect.
• 06. Understanding is the True Path to Comprehension.
• 07. Comprehension is the key to all things.
• 08. The Omnissiah knows all, comprehends all.

The Warnings

• 09. The alien mechanism is a perversion of the True Path.*
• 10. The soul is the conscience of sentience.
• 11. A soul can be bestowed only by the Omnissiah.**
• 12. The Soulless sentience is the enemy of all life.**
• 13. The knowledge of the ancients stands beyond question.***
• 14. The Machine Spirit guards the knowledge of the Ancients.
• 15. Flesh is fallible, but ritual honours the Machine Spirit.
• 16. To break with ritual is to break with faith.***

* Note that this isn't 'suffer not to live' but implies (to the more radical magi) that the machine spirits bound in xenos devices can be redeemed/rescued and put to serve the greater glory of humanity and the omnissiah. The hard-liners, of course, disagree, and believe that xenotech should be incinerated at the first opportuninty.

** Put together these are usually taken to be a warning against AI. The 'soul bestowed by the omnissiah' bit is why the Mechanicus uses things like servitors - there's a (lobotomised) human brain at the heart of it, so there's a soul, so it's okay.

*** Put together, a lot of more orthodox magi take these as a prohibition against innovation. Again, many disagree, pointing to the fact that the last four are a set, believing it to be about maintaining old devices, not creating new ones.

Oh man, this is great stuff. Posts like this are why I *come* to the forums. I don't suppose you could source it?

Upon further thinking, there is also the consideration that, were the AdMech actually to decide to "request" the RT's ship (despite the many well-thought out reasons others posted why it wouldn't be a very logical move on their part--thanks folks!), they would likely not only be contending with the RT's own dynasty. The RT might well find himself all but buried in allies from other dynasties--for what RT wants to see THAT type of precident set?

To be fair, at least the BL authors *acknowledge* the OP, even if they do weird crap that kinda misses the point. Don't the more recent codexes replace him with a legion of Terminators or something?

A bunch of them at least, yeah. It was an unfortunately necessary result of moving the fight from the Emperor's throne room to Horus' flagship, and the fact that transportation capabilities would be limited.

That being said, I would rather if those authors would ignore Ollanius altogether rather than change him into something that, as you say, "misses the point". Is an immortal dude who can teleport himself across the galaxy not a lot worse than a Space Marine Terminator? Why even bother with him? The awesome thing about Ollanius Pius was not the name, it's what he was. Changing the latter but keeping the former thus does not only "miss the point", it also sullies the name itself.

This is only made worse by a lot of people apparently taking these novels as an "accurate" and "canon" retelling of how things supposedly were, even though it's just yet another legend, yet another myth of what might have happened - and one that is arguably much more fantastic and weird than anything the Codex fluff used to tell us.

I'm happy that GW has, so far, not displayed any interest in actually adopting this fluff into their studio books (or is even outright contradicting it with the 6th edition rulebook), but it doesn't change that THE Ollanius Pius today is, by the majority of fans, perceived very differently from what this name used to mean. And that is sad.

Oh man, this is great stuff. Posts like this are why I *come* to the forums. I don't suppose you could source it?

The Inquisitor wargame - kind of the spiritual predecessor to dark heresy and the origin of pretty much all the background on the factions of the inquisition* - had two very good supplement .pdfs published for them. One called " Explorator Warbands " and the other called " Corpus Auxillia Mechanicus ". Whilst no longer on the GW website, nothing, as they say, is ever truly deleted on the internet; seek and ye shall find.

* Including a very interesting conversation hidden in the cover art. I shall be very interested to see how they address that bit when the Horus Heresy series gets there.