As

Drakhan Valane

said.

Try this one...

3 Omicron Shuttles w/ HLC and Gunner...

33 x 3 = 99

Lets see how a B-Wing List stands up to this.

I think the Gunner is redundant if you're using HLC against 1 Agility ships. Those 15 points could buy you engine upgrades to help your shuttles turn around better, and then maybe Vader on one of the shuttles.

But your point is well understood: B-wings can't beat every list. I'm partial to the Ion Cannon Turret to fight B-wings, which has been mentioned before.

Ion Cannons or Ion Turrets work well on the B-Wing. Pretty certain to hit. If you go Imp vs Reb's though, only the Firespray can make use of it effectively as even ionized, you do not want to be in front of a B-Wing.

Ion Cannons or Ion Turrets work well on the B-Wing. Pretty certain to hit. If you go Imp vs Reb's though, only the Firespray can make use of it effectively as even ionized, you do not want to be in front of a B-Wing.

I wouldn't worry about it too much if you ioned the b-wing with stress on it (which is exceedingly common in my experience). Without being able to focus or target lock, the B-Wing isn't really all that much of a threat.

I'd like to see 3 B-Wings versus 3 Firesprays.

So a 100 point B-Wing build versus a 150 point Firespray build?

As

Drakhan Valane

said.

Try this one...

3 Omicron Shuttles w/ HLC and Gunner...

33 x 3 = 99

Lets see how a B-Wing List stands up to this.

So by turn 5 or 6 the shuttles are flying off the other side of the game area?

Have you guys flown the shuttle yet?

3 b-wings with HLC are near impossible for Imperial squads to beat. Even Tie Bombers are no match, unless you have initiative and can shoot first then you might have a shot. Imperial ships are crit magnets, a ship with 5 shields is near invulnerable.

Of course HLC can't crit

I'd like to see 3 B-Wings versus 3 Firesprays.

So a 100 point B-Wing build versus a 150 point Firespray build?

Bounty Hunter is 33 points.

Other thoughts: if your opponent keeps B-Wings in formation, 3 Assault Missiles does a likely 6-9 points of damage to a B-Wing, plus a total of 6 damage points to his wingmen. Pretty good start.

Here's another one, if you're feeling really frustrated.

I would think that would give 3 Blues a hell of a lot of trouble. One of them probably dies before it can shoot. You have pilot skill advantage, they'll have some trouble hitting your guys, and the B-Wing is one of the only ships the A-Wing can continue to reliably hurt with its 2 attack, after missiles are gone.

Obviously this is not a competitive build, as its designed to beat only one squad. But I think it would make mincemeat of that squad, and I will test this matchup next chance I get. Might be better keeping both PTLs with the Assault Missiles but I was trying to make opposing target selection slightly more confusing.

I think you just have to fly better to beat them.

Hokey Religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side. Flying doesn't kill ships, successful hits with ships kill other ships and surviving long enough to make enough successful hits against 3 B-Wings with HLCs is extremely difficult for the Imperial Side.

If you are counting on the randomness of the dice to win a game then don't expect to win often, if at all. Another aspect of this issue that hasn't been brought up is time. With all the shields they have they can go for an extended time without too much risk versus an unshielded or lightly shielded Imperial ship that could be neutralized by a single, particular crtical.

The 3 B-Wing list has the power to heap the damage right away and also the ability to wait out the battle trading shots here and there because damage to the b-wing squad is not at bad as damage to the Imperial squad. The Imperial need to hit early and often without taking any bad crits the whole time. The b-wings just need to land a shot every so often and the Imperials crumble.

Even with the Slave-1 ships, the most you can have is two with HLCs and their size is a detriment. Get hung up and it's also a quick kill. So, the B-Wing provides a huge advange to the Rebel player and I hope tournaments don't end up being 4-9 people all playing B-wing squads with one or two "purists" who plays the squad they like regardless of how mush they lose.

Here's another one, if you're feeling really frustrated.

===============

Rebel Civil War

===============

An A-Wing strike force, designed exclusively to kill B-Wings.

100 points

Pilots

------

Green Squadron Pilot (27)

A-Wing (19), Assault Missiles (5), Push the Limit (3)

Green Squadron Pilot (24)

A-Wing (19), Assault Missiles (5)

Green Squadron Pilot (26)

A-Wing (19), Cluster Missiles (4), Push the Limit (3)

Green Squadron Pilot (23)

A-Wing (19), Cluster Missiles (4)

------

I would think that would give 3 Blues a hell of a lot of trouble. One of them probably dies before it can shoot. You have pilot skill advantage, they'll have some trouble hitting your guys, and the B-Wing is one of the only ships the A-Wing can continue to reliably hurt with its 2 attack, after missiles are gone.

Obviously this is not a competitive build, as its designed to beat only one squad. But I think it would make mincemeat of that squad, and I will test this matchup next chance I get. Might be better keeping both PTLs with the Assault Missiles but I was trying to make opposing target selection slightly more confusing.

Assuming blue squadrons, I'd actually go something like this:

Green Squadron w/ PtL and Assault Missile

Green Squadron w/ PtL and Assault Missile

Green Squadron w/ PtL and Concussion Missile

Green Squadron w/ Adrenalin Rush.

You'll fire everything before your opponent - there is a very real chance that the 2 assault missiles will deal 5 damage to a B-wing (and an unlikely chance that it will just be destroyed by the 2 missiles), and the following concussion missile will finish it off. The final green squadron can possibly lay a single point of damage into a b-wing. Then the B-Wings get to shoot back - assuming they focused, they should get 3 hits and the A-Wings should evade 1-2 of those hits. More than likely we have 1 shield stripped A-Wing. The next turn, all 4 A-Wings converge on one of the B-Wings and hopefully can target lock + focus at range 1. That should take down another of the already weakened B-Wings, and then its just a matter of 3 or 4 on 1.

Here's another one, if you're feeling really frustrated.

===============

Rebel Civil War

===============

An A-Wing strike force, designed exclusively to kill B-Wings.

100 points

Pilots

------

Green Squadron Pilot (27)...

The Greens are Pilot 3 and the Dagger are Pilot 4 so the 3 Daggers could take out 1-2 A-wings before the A-wings launched a missle, let alone getting target lock and trying to wait for a focus (as convential wisdom demands)

I think you just have to fly better to beat them.

Hokey Religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side. Flying doesn't kill ships, successful hits with ships kill other ships and surviving long enough to make enough successful hits against 3 B-Wings with HLCs is extremely difficult for the Imperial Side.

If you are counting on the randomness of the dice to win a game then don't expect to win often, if at all. Another aspect of this issue that hasn't been brought up is time. With all the shields they have they can go for an extended time without too much risk versus an unshielded or lightly shielded Imperial ship that could be neutralized by a single, particular crtical.

The 3 B-Wing list has the power to heap the damage right away and also the ability to wait out the battle trading shots here and there because damage to the b-wing squad is not at bad as damage to the Imperial squad. The Imperial need to hit early and often without taking any bad crits the whole time. The b-wings just need to land a shot every so often and the Imperials crumble.

Even with the Slave-1 ships, the most you can have is two with HLCs and their size is a detriment. Get hung up and it's also a quick kill. So, the B-Wing provides a huge advange to the Rebel player and I hope tournaments don't end up being 4-9 people all playing B-wing squads with one or two "purists" who plays the squad they like regardless of how mush they lose.

B-Wings crumble under focused fire. It's not too difficult to take them out. Also you can take more than two Firespray's. You can have up to three.

I'd like to see 3 B-Wings versus 3 Firesprays.

So a 100 point B-Wing build versus a 150 point Firespray build?

Bounty Hunter is 33 points.

Other thoughts: if your opponent keeps B-Wings in formation, 3 Assault Missiles does a likely 6-9 points of damage to a B-Wing, plus a total of 6 damage points to his wingmen. Pretty good start.

The 3 B-Wings have HLCs and Fire Control Systems to get auto target locks after the first shot. Three base Firesprays (Bounty Hunters) have Pilot 3, same as Green squad A-Wings, so expect to lose a firespray before the B-wings take a single point of damage. Also, maneuvering 3 large ships versus 3 small ships will add to the complexity, especially if the B-wings are especially adept at blocking.

I think you just have to fly better to beat them....

B-Wings crumble under focused fire. It's not too difficult to take them out. Also you can take more than two Firespray's. You can have up to three.

Everything crumbles under focused fire, how do you plan to live long enough with an Imperial squad to focus enough fire to remove 15 shields and 9 hull while taking target locked and focused HLC fire (or 4 dice of target locked and focused range 1 fire with crit potential on top)?

As

Drakhan Valane

said.

Try this one...

3 Omicron Shuttles w/ HLC and Gunner...

33 x 3 = 99

Lets see how a B-Wing List stands up to this.

I think the Gunner is redundant if you're using HLC against 1 Agility ships. Those 15 points could buy you engine upgrades to help your shuttles turn around better, and then maybe Vader on one of the shuttles.

But your point is well understood: B-wings can't beat every list. I'm partial to the Ion Cannon Turret to fight B-wings, which has been mentioned before.

Imperials don't get the Ion Cannon Turret....

HCL's can't CRIT! Stop using "my shields protect me from crits, unlike imperials". Imperials say, "your HCL's are protecting me from crits"! Thanks!

If ships with 5 shields can't be beat, run shuttles against the B-Wings!

LOL!! I should have specified B-Wings with 5 shields. Shuttles with 10 shields will slowly circle the battle field until reduces to junk, unable to turn around to fire a shot,

Just as a cautionary on the HLC's can't crit. That only counts if you aren't rerolling and if you use the FCS, you will get rerolls and crits then count per the FAQ.

Don't let them shoot at you! I can and have beaten up on these B-wing lists flying squints and ties. Just out fly the **** things. Shoot them in the side not head on. I'll take not shooting at them if they don't get to shoot at me! Better yet, I did this last week when I had Fel with ptl and a stealth device, I barrel rolled out of all the firing lanes then boosted into range one of the rear most B-wing and lit it up with four red dice and a focus. I lost one. Just one saber pilot in the exchange. And with VI I still shot before him and got my money's worth in hits. It was a 300 point game and took out wedge and two tricked out Bs with four squints coming in at 100 points. He came in I think at 98 in that smaller part of the battle. He and I both couldn't believe the 181st rocked so much that game.

By all means if you want to fly three Bs with HLC and a system upgrade, please do! I look forward to playing against these lists at worlds. I'm finding more and more that the veteran players are out flying Bs and bombers with Xs and squints.

I will say that I found a nice little B set up that I use and it drives people crazy. But I'm only flying one.

I'd like to see 3 B-Wings versus 3 Firesprays.

So a 100 point B-Wing build versus a 150 point Firespray build?

Bounty Hunter is 33 points.

Other thoughts: if your opponent keeps B-Wings in formation, 3 Assault Missiles does a likely 6-9 points of damage to a B-Wing, plus a total of 6 damage points to his wingmen. Pretty good start.

The 3 B-Wings have HLCs and Fire Control Systems to get auto target locks after the first shot. Three base Firesprays (Bounty Hunters) have Pilot 3, same as Green squad A-Wings, so expect to lose a firespray before the B-wings take a single point of damage. Also, maneuvering 3 large ships versus 3 small ships will add to the complexity, especially if the B-wings are especially adept at blocking.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. Going solely on averages and expected outcomes, the HLCs deal 3 hits each if you have a focus or TL to throw at them, and 2 Defense dice should yield just under 1 evade each and 1.25 evades if you have focus. Thus with evade or focus, the fire spray should only take 8 damage.

Just as a cautionary on the HLC's can't crit. That only counts if you aren't rerolling and if you use the FCS, you will get rerolls and crits then count per the FAQ.

This is only at range 2-3, at range 1 the B-Wing is using 4 dice with the ability to crit. While it is expected to always use the HLC when possible, the savy player with a TL and a focus might use the 3 dice at range 2 or even 3 (even though the defender gets an extra defense die) just to go for a crit or two if the situation is right. That's a gamble that could really pay off if it hits.

My biggest problem with 3 straight B's is that people will quickly learn how to counter it and it offers no tactic beyond fly straight, shoot hard.

I have a nice YT, B and HWK build that puts out some nice tactical options as well as some decent killing power. This game requires options after a short while. Short term, 3 B's will be a pain, long term, against good opponents, not so much.

English Pete you said it the best.

My biggest problem with 3 straight B's is that people will quickly learn how to counter it and it offers no tactic beyond fly straight, shoot hard.

I have a nice YT, B and HWK build that puts out some nice tactical options as well as some decent killing power. This game requires options after a short while. Short term, 3 B's will be a pain, long term, against good opponents, not so much.

I hope you are right and that seems to be the concern of the OP. Another concern is that new ships will come out that best the B-Wings and to be competitive you have to buy more ships. At that point it just becomes like Magic (I think it was Magic, or something else where you needed rare items) where you end up paying to win and we don't want that.

What I think makes the B-wing trio such a nasty beast to have to fight is that it's tough, and can dish out a LOT of damage in short order, but...it's slow. Manuverable ya, kinda, but it's SLOW. I've watched a friend's 181st list go toe to toe with my B-Wings and Soontir Fel will boost/barrel roll out of arc, and Tur Phennir will shoot and fly past...out of arc. The 2 Saber Squadron Pilots rarely last long, but with 3/4 dice they do a lot of damage before they go. And since they get VI they have the same PS or better than the B-Wings I'm flying, so I get shot down first, no return shots.