So, the Only War entry for Manipulator says:

Page 207:

MANIPULATOR MECHADENDRITE
Possibly the most common form of mechadendrite, this
artificial limb is a great aid to Enginseers working to repair
vehicles in the heat of battle, allowing them to lift greater
weights and more easily operate industrial gear . It can extend
out to 1.5m and grants the user +20 to Strength-based Tests ;
the vicious gripping and crushing pincers can also tether the
user to gantries or suitably heavy objects as a Free Action. The
heavy metal pincers can be used in combat to make melee
attacks. The character can strike with it as his Reaction for
the Round or use it to make a Standard Attack (so long as it is
only used once per Round). The manipulator mechadendrite
deals 1d10+2 I Damage.
While powerful, the manipulator is not subtle, and
attempts to use it for such tasks as data-slate typing, inscribing
sacrificial etchings, handling delicate objects, or the like only
ends with equipment being dropped, smashed, or otherwise
ruined. A character must have the appropriate Mechadendrite
Use Talent to operate this implant.

Question 1 : Is it implying that its bonus is only for lifting things, or could it also apply to the "Thunder Charge" talent or Grapple, Strength Tests? As in, just like a best Craftsmanship bionic arm would (since OW considers them a limb, but doesn't say Arm or leg).

Question 2 : Strength Based Tests VS Strength Tests. Does the former imply STR based skill and characteristic tests ? Or is it never skill tests unless explicitly said so?

Page 152:

THUNDER CHARGE
Tier: 3
Prerequisite: Strength 50
Aptitudes: Strength, Offence
The character charges into combat using his body as an
additional weapon to push foes away or to the ground. Driven
by his rage and momentum, the impact of such a charge can
knock a foe flying or bring them to their knees. When the
character makes a Charge Action, he can barrel through
foes to get to his target. Make an Opposed Strength Test
between the character and each foe in his way (i.e. each foe
his charge would take him past or through). Those that fail
are knocked to the ground. Once the character has Tested to
knock down those in his way, he may complete his Charge
and make his attacks against his intended target.

Page 204:

Replacement and additional limbs—such as
mechadendrites—can only be used to perform tasks that the
owner already knows how to do.

Question 3 : Since OW considers Mechadendrites as limbs (doesn't say Arm or leg specifically), if I had say, 2 Manipulators, or a Manipulator and a Utility Mechadendrite, would that qualify as having Multiple Arms (4) trait and grant the associated bonuses (and extra attacks if the character had Two-Weapon Wielder )?

Thanks in advance for any input!

For Question 1 & 2, I can't really comment on the RAW. By RAW, it's more or less a blank cheque. However, I would say that it is unreasonable to assume that the +20 to Strength applies to everything, and until I just checked, I was actually sure that it specifically pointed out that it only applied to circumstances during which it was actually involved - at least in Rogue Trader. Apparently it doesn't.

This would mean that, for example, for very obvious reasons, you wouldn't get the Manipulator Mechadendrite's bonus when swinging your axe around. So I'd personally say that it applies to Grapple, for example, but doesn't help with your carrying capacity, but would definitely count for your lifting capacity.

"Strength-based Tests" means all Tests that are based on Strength. This could be a Grapple, an attempt to lift something, or a Strength-test of any kind, including Skills (although in the case of the Manipulator Mechadendrite, the only Skill-tests in Only War that I can think of that are Strength-based (without using Alternative Characteristics) is Athletics & Intimidate; neither of which I'd expect a Manipulator Mechadendrite to help with.

"Strength Test" would be any test that is just Strength, nothing else. So no Skills, for example. Sraight Strength.

As for Question 3, saying that OW considers Mechadendrites limbs isn't entirely correct. A "limb" isn't a specific rule or a keyword, and it is (to the best of my knowledge) never defined. In all contexts that I'm aware of, limbs refer to your natural limbs. Not that it really matters much, since it's not a keyword or rules-defined phrase.

But no, you would not qualify for Multiple Arms. Multiple Arms is a specific Trait, and unless specified, not something that you gain simply by getting new limbs, no matter what kind of limbs they are. If you want to get it, argue with your GM, but in all honesty, I'd approach it in another way; argue that the Mechadendrite should follow the rules for Weapons MIU:s, since they are used in much the same way, and fused to your spine.

This would mean that you could perform a Free Attack with a Mechadendrite. You would still be limited to 1 Attack without the Two-Weapon Wielder Talent(s), but it's a good argument to raise and would give you some added versatility.

Oh, and yeah, I would say that the Manipulator Mechadendrite would definitely help with Thunder Charge. The Mechadendrite could be used to stabilize yourself, tether yourself to the ground as you push, or to be swung wildly at your enemies as you run. That's just more personal interpretation, though. Again, it's something you'd need to bring up with the GM.

Edit: The Manipulator Mechadendrite is my favourite Mechadendrite, and I hope one day to be able to realize a concept that makes use of 6 of them. That's +120 for the purpose of lifting things, grappling, or just.. you know.. rip and tear bulkheads.

For Question 1 & 2, I can't really comment on the RAW. By RAW, it's more or less a blank cheque. However, I would say that it is unreasonable to assume that the +20 to Strength applies to everything, and until I just checked, I was actually sure that it specifically pointed out that it only applied to circumstances during which it was actually involved - at least in Rogue Trader. Apparently it doesn't.

This would mean that, for example, for very obvious reasons, you wouldn't get the Manipulator Mechadendrite's bonus when swinging your axe around. So I'd personally say that it applies to Grapple, for example, but doesn't help with your carrying capacity, but would definitely count for your lifting capacity.

"Strength-based Tests" means all Tests that are based on Strength. This could be a Grapple, an attempt to lift something, or a Strength-test of any kind, including Skills (although in the case of the Manipulator Mechadendrite, the only Skill-tests in Only War that I can think of that are Strength-based (without using Alternative Characteristics) is Athletics & Intimidate; neither of which I'd expect a Manipulator Mechadendrite to help with.

"Strength Test" would be any test that is just Strength, nothing else. So no Skills, for example. Sraight Strength.

As for Question 3, saying that OW considers Mechadendrites limbs isn't entirely correct. A "limb" isn't a specific rule or a keyword, and it is (to the best of my knowledge) never defined. In all contexts that I'm aware of, limbs refer to your natural limbs. Not that it really matters much, since it's not a keyword or rules-defined phrase.

But no, you would not qualify for Multiple Arms. Multiple Arms is a specific Trait, and unless specified, not something that you gain simply by getting new limbs, no matter what kind of limbs they are. If you want to get it, argue with your GM, but in all honesty, I'd approach it in another way; argue that the Mechadendrite should follow the rules for Weapons MIU:s, since they are used in much the same way, and fused to your spine.

This would mean that you could perform a Free Attack with a Mechadendrite. You would still be limited to 1 Attack without the Two-Weapon Wielder Talent(s), but it's a good argument to raise and would give you some added versatility.

Oh, and yeah, I would say that the Manipulator Mechadendrite would definitely help with Thunder Charge. The Mechadendrite could be used to stabilize yourself, tether yourself to the ground as you push, or to be swung wildly at your enemies as you run. That's just more personal interpretation, though. Again, it's something you'd need to bring up with the GM.

Edit: The Manipulator Mechadendrite is my favourite Mechadendrite, and I hope one day to be able to realize a concept that makes use of 6 of them. That's +120 for the purpose of lifting things, grappling, or just.. you know.. rip and tear bulkheads.

Thanks a lot! To bad the book says that bonus's from limbs/mechadendrites can only be gained once.

Page 204:

Note that the bonuses and penalties relate only to Tests

made using the bionic limb, and characters who possess

two bionic limbs do not gain double the bonus, but

rather they may apply the bonus regardless of

which bionic limb they are using.

That raises a question though, in OW: Hammer of the Emperor, they bring back the "Servo Arm" mechadendrite, which has it's own personal STR value of 75 (or 85 if good quality). There aren't any rules for it (that I know of), but you could almost argue that you could get assistance/gang-up bonus's from each one, maybe? As if they where separate entities helping you, as they practically are with their own stat values. I guess that's one of those things that will never be addressed and left to GM rules.

edit: there wouldn't happen to be an official source on the Strength vs Strength Based wording would there?

Only if I can Assist one hand with my other hand.

For Question 1 & 2, I can't really comment on the RAW. By RAW, it's more or less a blank cheque. However, I would say that it is unreasonable to assume that the +20 to Strength applies to everything, and until I just checked, I was actually sure that it specifically pointed out that it only applied to circumstances during which it was actually involved - at least in Rogue Trader. Apparently it doesn't.

This would mean that, for example, for very obvious reasons, you wouldn't get the Manipulator Mechadendrite's bonus when swinging your axe around. So I'd personally say that it applies to Grapple, for example, but doesn't help with your carrying capacity, but would definitely count for your lifting capacity.

"Strength-based Tests" means all Tests that are based on Strength. This could be a Grapple, an attempt to lift something, or a Strength-test of any kind, including Skills (although in the case of the Manipulator Mechadendrite, the only Skill-tests in Only War that I can think of that are Strength-based (without using Alternative Characteristics) is Athletics & Intimidate; neither of which I'd expect a Manipulator Mechadendrite to help with.

"Strength Test" would be any test that is just Strength, nothing else. So no Skills, for example. Sraight Strength.

As for Question 3, saying that OW considers Mechadendrites limbs isn't entirely correct. A "limb" isn't a specific rule or a keyword, and it is (to the best of my knowledge) never defined. In all contexts that I'm aware of, limbs refer to your natural limbs. Not that it really matters much, since it's not a keyword or rules-defined phrase.

But no, you would not qualify for Multiple Arms. Multiple Arms is a specific Trait, and unless specified, not something that you gain simply by getting new limbs, no matter what kind of limbs they are. If you want to get it, argue with your GM, but in all honesty, I'd approach it in another way; argue that the Mechadendrite should follow the rules for Weapons MIU:s, since they are used in much the same way, and fused to your spine.

This would mean that you could perform a Free Attack with a Mechadendrite. You would still be limited to 1 Attack without the Two-Weapon Wielder Talent(s), but it's a good argument to raise and would give you some added versatility.

Oh, and yeah, I would say that the Manipulator Mechadendrite would definitely help with Thunder Charge. The Mechadendrite could be used to stabilize yourself, tether yourself to the ground as you push, or to be swung wildly at your enemies as you run. That's just more personal interpretation, though. Again, it's something you'd need to bring up with the GM.

Edit: The Manipulator Mechadendrite is my favourite Mechadendrite, and I hope one day to be able to realize a concept that makes use of 6 of them. That's +120 for the purpose of lifting things, grappling, or just.. you know.. rip and tear bulkheads.

Thanks a lot! To bad the book says that bonus's from limbs/mechadendrites can only be gained once.

Page 204:

Note that the bonuses and penalties relate only to Tests

made using the bionic limb, and characters who possess

two bionic limbs do not gain double the bonus, but

rather they may apply the bonus regardless of

which bionic limb they are using.

That raises a question though, in OW: Hammer of the Emperor, they bring back the "Servo Arm" mechadendrite, which has it's own personal STR value of 75 (or 85 if good quality). There aren't any rules for it (that I know of), but you could almost argue that you could get assistance/gang-up bonus's from each one, maybe? As if they where separate entities helping you, as they practically are with their own stat values. I guess that's one of those things that will never be addressed and left to GM rules.

edit: there wouldn't happen to be an official source on the Strength vs Strength Based wording would there?

Well that's just another thing that needs to be fixed, then.

I'll be honest, I had completely missed that line, but I think there's strong arguments that it should be waived in many cases. It's about like the Manipulator Mechadendrite itself, which doesn't clarify at all when the bonus applies, other than Strength-based Tests; this would include situations like the aforementioned Intimidate and Athletics. I can see an argument for how a Manipulator Mechadendrite would help with Intimidate, but not overly moreso than any mechadendrite would - but Athletics overall? Oh wow, no. Unless anyone wants to argue that Manipulator Mechadendrites help you swim.

And at the same time, it would make perfect sense that if you have two Manipulator Mechadendrites to tether yourself to the ground and use as bracing, and another two to help you lift something, they would all apply, which runs completely contrary to the general rule you cited.

Another good example would be the Strength increase from Best-Craftsmanship Bionic Arm. It applies +10 Strength. But going by the aforementioned general rule, it wouldn't become +20 if you had two Bionic Arms. The +10 Agility for fine manipulation with a Good-Craftsmanship Bionic Arm, I can see how that wouldn't stack, but if you have two extra-strong arms, then you have two extra-strong arms, not just one.

Nevertheless, it is RAW. It's futile to argue on the boards, because in the end, it's yet another thing to raise with the GM.

I always get the feeling that I'm starting more conversations with my GM with "I would argue that..." than in any other system.

Anyway, no, I can't cite a place where terminology is specifically explained (such as "Strength" vs. "Strength-based". It's just implied by wording and (relatively) consistent useage throughout the books. FFG is notoriously bad at proof-reading and sometimes they slip up when writing the rules, leaving room for quite a lot of ambiguity. Further annoyance is added to this by being absolutely balls-to-the-walls terrible at updating the "Living" Errata(s).

They somewhat make up for this by having a very good Rules Questions section where you can submit mails directly to them and have questions cleared up. But it's nevertheless an annoyance.

Sometimes, I think they should write a Terminology, Key Phrases and Keywords -document. Partly for us, the customers, but also as a reference document for their own writers.

Sometimes, I think they should write a Terminology, Key Phrases and Keywords -document. Partly for us, the customers, but also as a reference document for their own writers.

I'm starting to see that something like this is necessary.