On other threads there has been some talk about expectations of having current level technology (at least) in the Star Wars extended universe. A primary example being the ubiquitousness of the internet, and how information can be brought up reasonably quickly on virtually any subject, and a hacker can access theoretically any computer on the planet.

I'd like to have a bit of a conversation around this. Star Wars IV-VI of course, was written long before the internet was a reality, but EpI-III were written after. The HoloNet exists as an approximate equivalent, but truthfully, there are some real logistical issues in making that operate like the internet on a galactic scale.

The internet works today largely because Earth is small enough so that the limits of relativity aren't a factor at all. However, go to say Mars, and conventional transmissions get delayed between 3 and 20 minutes depending on how far apart the two planets are at any given time. This actually makes internet transmissions within a star system highly problematic without a "fluff fix" like hyperwave transmitters.

The existence of hyperwave transmitters, of course, allowed for the creation of the HoloNet, but even then, there would be a limit/delay on how fast information could be transmitted. I think that's a big reason why there really isn't a straight up equivalent of the internet in the SWEU. Sure information can be transmitted instantaneously over interstellar distances with hyperwave, but even then there'd be a limit as to what this could be.

Of course, during the time of the Galactic Empire, large chunks of the HoloNet were shut down to control information. There were some rival networks, and large ships would have had hyperwave transmitters/receivers.

In terms of related technologies, Comlinks were not smart phones but walkie talkie equivalents, while Datapads were very similar to current tablets. Pocket computers also existed and would have been closer to smartphones, but many places simply did not have access to the HoloNet to make full use of them. It'd be highly unlikely that a ship way out on the Outer Rim could park there, and let a slicer get into a database on Coruscant. Each system would have their own network, that could be sliced far easier (and with less chance of being observed) from on the planet itself... Going through the HoloNet would have some real security issues too...

Having once driven through Northern Ontario, having a smartphone is fine, but if there's no cell towers to transmit data, what good is it? There are many places in the galaxy that would be just like that.

Anyway, just some random thoughts as to how to remind players that ultra-high technology has its issues and limitations too...

Thanks for the great information.

I have one long time gamer of our group who refuses to lay Star Wars because the tech is incongruent to its use, he just can't handle it. My other players just say "that's why it's called a space opera, not a sci-fi".

My point is make it as technical as you feel comfortable. Since this takes place in the outer rim the holonet isn't necessarily everywhere, keep in mind there are still a large percentage of homes in the US that have no internet or crap DSL.

This kind of conversation came up a couple of days ago in our last session. Our slicer wanted to slice into the computer of the receptionist desk of a factory to get a map of the factory. I couldn't justify why there would be a map of the factory (though my players were taking the initiative in this so I should have just given it to them. But that's a conversation for a different thread).

When they realized the couldn't find a map (failure but with an advantage), they decided they wanted to use the advantage to disable some of the security protocols for the doors of the factory. Eventually we had a discussion on data networks and how some places of business have one interconnected network and others has several modular networks. This is how I plan on explaining the dice results, unless I plan a location to have varying degrees of security levels, the number of advantages/triumphs will tell the player how expansive the network they are slicing into is.

I even outright said that the holonet isn't all that similar to the internet. In my slice of the galaxy, it's a news exchange, where slicers can piggy back for communications. I explicitly told them this just computers doesn't become the "god" skill. They didn't seem to have a problem with this at all.

I like many of the ideas the OP had concerning how internet-like the holonet is, and how this would work across systems in the core and also, how sparse it may be in the outer rim territories. I think just being up front and explaining these to your players will go a long way in setting their expectations at a certain level. The long distance between systems, and the less reliable those hyperwave transmissions would be in the outer rim make for a good explanation to the PCs for why instant access to all information would not be available. Imperial network security would be the best explanation should the players try to push their luck closer to the core. I like the idea that many of the systems would have their own system-wide or even just planet-wide networks...limiting the information to being local at best, and then those local networks would have their own security measures. then hard-wire connection verses wireless is another great constraint...I think I will adopt these ideas as the basic tenets for my version of the Star Wars universe 'internet.'

Wookiepedia has some great info I'm still digesting. As a guy that slings 1's and 0's around the world at line speed all day long, I figure I'm learned enough to make some good calls for my group. At a high level, it looks like a mesh network design which is why others found it easier to skirt around during the Empire's censorship.

And, given it takes a ship a couple days at hyperspeed to go from the Outer Rim to the Core, feasibly we can assume data traveling at the same speed suffers the same time penalty. The only caveat I see here is that the repeaters live at static points in Hyperspace and don't necessarily have to follow hyperspace lanes. This might shave a day off communications if they found a direct route, but I just don't see how they could have instantaneous communications from the Core to the Outer Rim with just hyperwave transmissions themselves. Maybe speed IN hyperspace is not a constant.....

Communications, ships, turbolifts, etc., all move at the speed of plot.

One key bit of information to keep in mind with the HoloNet is that, when the Empire was 'born', one of its first acts was to seize control of the HoloNet infrastructure. Other than the possibility of a rogue 'dark net' or two piggybacking on the network through covert means*, only official Imperial communications go anywhere on the HoloNet. At the minimum, only approved communications transit the HoloNet.

* See the other thread mentioned above. Maintaining such a 'dark net' is a good source of mission ideas for the 'right' team of characters.

The holonet works fine if you are in the core worlds and looking up simple things like the latest Gravball scores, or the Average hanging weight of a Nerf on Engebo V during the Clone wars. But when you start looking up information on certain individuals or Companies with shady history that is where you start having problems. If you have ever tried looking up information on our internet on Local bands, most reliable information you would get are videos. Similar to Holos in Star wars.

I can easily see a team of slicers setting up shop, slicing into the local holonet and grabbing up as much information before heading out to some other area to see what they got. If they find something useful they can go back and look for that information specifically. That makes Infochants so much more important in the Star wars universe, they know what people are looking for, and send others out looking for the information. The players might not have reliable access to the Galactic Holonent, and maybe at best local restricted access to the Planetary nets

Some of the novels explain that real-time communication between different systems is expensive and not readily available to all.

Just because you are on a planet with a large city does not mean that they will have connection to a 'Galactic' holonet, they may only have access to a local, planetary network. Yeah, they could look up a fact about an obscure planet someplace, but given how isolated the network is they may be pulling obsolete information.

Empty planet full of resources? Ours for the taking? Lets go! Wait, it's been garrisoned by Imperials for the last five years???

My thoughts on Star Wars have largely been formed by the original trilogy, and WEG's excellent expansion on the things those movies showed us, thus I don't really have a "modern technology" take on the setting.

To me, there's no intergalactic-spanning "internet". Individual planets may certainly have one or more planet-wide information systems depending on their level of progress (fairly likely in the Core worlds, significantly less so in the Outer Rim). Tatooine almost certainly doesn't have anything like this, while Nar Shaddaa most likely does. So it will vary quite a lot from system to system. Internet aside, most sites that a slicer would find interesting to get into are bound to be on secure networks anyway, so it's not like you can do everything from your couch even if such systems exist. You have to get out there and be adventurous!

The HoloNet, however, is not an internet. The HoloNet is a FTL-communications network that the Empire has all but disbanded, to the point that today it is used almost exclusively by the Empire's largest warships. I expect that the HoloNet technology is too expensive for it to have ever seen widespread civilian use.

While I agree that Star Wars (at least the OT) was based on 1970s science fiction, I don't really feel this is a problem that needs to be "fixed". There are all sorts of reasons why Star Wars technology doesn't resemble modern real-world technology. And this is even prevalent in the new trilogy (note how Obi-Wan travels to the jedi temple library on Coruscant to search star maps, rather than just googling it). In fact, I think the only actual long-distance communication shown on-screen in the movies is between the Emperor and Vader/Maul. In these scenes, presumably the Emperor was on Coruscant, communicating with his servants in what seems like real time (which is probably better than what the holonet would really be able to do. )

Anyway. I'm not saying anything else is wrong for doing Star Wars technology differently. This is just how it goes in my games.

(It should be noted that I'm a long-time Dark Heresy player so I don't have an issue with 'communications delays'. "Thanks for responding to our distress call, too bad you're 150 years too late!")

In fact, I think the only actual long-distance communication shown on-screen in the movies is between the Emperor and Vader/Maul. In these scenes, presumably the Emperor was on Coruscant, communicating with his servants in what seems like real time (which is probably better than what the holonet would really be able to do. )

So this is exactly what HoloNet communication does. It allows real-time communication between parties light years apart. So yeah, Palps was likely using the HoloNet to communicate.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Holonet

So this is exactly what HoloNet communication does. It allows real-time communication between parties light years apart. So yeah, Palps was likely using the HoloNet to communicate.

Oh, I wasn't saying it wasn't. That's absolutely what he's using to communicate in those situations. I was just commenting (cheekily considering my previous anti-realistic technology stance) that even the HoloNet is probably not real-time from one end of the galaxy to the other.

I forget where Vader was when the Emperor contacts him, but Naboo is located on the edge of the Outer Rim, so roughly as far away from Coruscant as you can get. Assuming, of course, that Palpatine was on Coruscant when he was communicating with Darth Maul.

Anyway. Huge derail. So yes, HoloNet is pretty fast and, if only going by the movies, pretty rare, even during the height of the Old Republic (or so trivial and boring that they didn't want to waste screen time on it. Also an option!)

Even if the HoloNet is ubiquitous, it also has limitations. The most powerful warship in the Imperial Fleet had to exit a dense asteroid field in order to get a clear signal from the outskirts of the Hoth system to Coruscant. Needless to say the resources available to players is much more limited. Holographic projectors are common, but via hyperwave, certainly are less common. Keep in mind, all through episode IV-VI you never saw the rebel alliance using any sort of holographic projection system. In the prequels, and in the clone wars, much of that activity is at the level of political and military elites... Plus the HoloNet was freer in its usage.

Ultimately, while some internet-like systems may well exist within the galaxy, there's enough there to provide a "reasonable" (it is fiction after all) reason why players would need to travel to a given place to gather information, rather than simply do it remotely.

Keep in mind, all through episode IV-VI you never saw the rebel alliance using any sort of holographic projection system.

The briefing room on the Rebel flagship (Home One?) has a holo projector:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Q5O79FmMs

Sorry, you're right on that mark. I should clarify... Holo projector as part of a communication system. Perhaps the briefing room on Home One is more representative of the types of technology needed. Home One is a huge ship with lots of resources, and if there was any ship in the rebel fleet that would have it, that'd be it. Certainly the Jedi Council made use of the HoloNet, but they also had access to the Republic's resources.

Also keep in mind, when Luke wanted to deliver a holo message to Jabba about Solo, he didn't dial him up... But sent two loyal droids to deliver the message in person... Granted it was part of the larger scheme, but still...

A holoprojector is not a holonet transmitter/receiver....