My grey wizard finally went looking and he could not find where in the players guide it says that the base diffculty for casting a spell is 1 Purple. So I went searching and could not find any reference.

He is thinking that there isn't one besides what is on the cards.

Could someone point me to the page reference that states that there is or isn't a base modifier for spellcasting?

I do own all the resource books.

You're probably right, but it makes spellcasting even more powerful. I couldn't find it on a search of the players guide PDF.

Thats what I told him. I said either way I will keep it with one base purple dice. Of course spells that are against target Defense I believe would be the same as a melee or range combat.


How are others playing the spellcasting?

I find that spellcasters are twinked/min-maxed beyond belief and overpowered..that's been my experience with every single one. I attribute this to the belief that the designers had that players wouldn't min-max their characters.

Other than Ironbroken's, spellcasters are the next most broken. I can't see any reason why they cannot quickly dominate every tabletop in terms of sheer versatility and power.

I think the base purple die for any action should be a must for a house rule.

jh

A lot of the newer and especially epic spells have quite high difficulties. Other than that many spells are opposed checks, that most often add challenge dice. Making d1 the base difficulty may throw off balance for newer spells, so I suggest instead making the minimum difficulty for spells 2d. So if after all modifiers and all, if the difficulty is less than 2d it is set at 2d.

That said, wizards can only cast spells every second round if they need to channel power, unless they quick casts, which adds another challenge die to the check.

Another thing first: The problem is that players will always min/max a system. But that isn't something the system can change. In the end the GM has the last word and can rule that specific concepts/characters and so on are not allowed in your game. With that out of the way:

I houserule that there are no spells that are "easy" except lighting a candle which I do not let some roll for anyways. So every other spells especially combat spells would always get two purple. But I also treat normal melee/ranged combat moves as opposed tests too.

I also didn't find any base difficulty for spells but I personally feel that magic is just too weak, boring and restricted anyways (cantrips can't be any effects that do already exist as spell actions/same as perform stunt). In addition the miscast effects are just lame and magic doesn't feel like "playing with the essence of chaos". Your clothes become purple? It starts raining frogs? You hit a second additional target called by the GM? In my next GM session I will freestyle all miscast effects so that they become more meaningful.

But I might throw out all action cards as well because they are just killing creativity in my opinion. And most of the other players/the other GM in my group support that thought.

From the FAQ, page 2 (emphasis added):

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/wfrp/support/FAQ-9-2011/WFRP_FAQ_9-8-11.pdf

I also didn't find any base difficulty for spells but I personally feel that magic is just too weak, boring and restricted anyways (cantrips can't be any effects that do already exist as spell actions/same as perform stunt). In addition the miscast effects are just lame and magic doesn't feel like "playing with the essence of chaos". Your clothes become purple? It starts raining frogs? You hit a second additional target called by the GM? In my next GM session I will freestyle all miscast effects so that they become more meaningful.

But I might throw out all action cards as well because they are just killing creativity in my opinion. And most of the other players/the other GM in my group support that thought.

The way I see the magic user in WH, creativity and versatility is only for chaotic magic users, who can use 'raw' magic.

The magic taught by the elves, that is still passed down in the Magic Colleges is a very formalized, limited way to do magic; but it is safe and protects the user again chaos.

In my Magic colleges, it is strictly forbidden to research new spells, it's too dangerous.

On the opposite, a chaos mage can try whatever he wants but have limited controls of what happens.

Most chaotic mages who lives long are somewhere between formalized magic and pure chaotic magic.

I agree with you about the miscat effects wich are often ridiculous, most of the time I create my own on the fly (depending on the situation) or I draw a card for inspiration and adapt it.

The way I see the magic user in WH, creativity and versatility is only for chaotic magic users, who can use 'raw' magic.

The magic taught by the elves, that is still passed down in the Magic Colleges is a very formalized, limited way to do magic; but it is safe and protects the user again chaos.

In my Magic colleges, it is strictly forbidden to research new spells, it's too dangerous.

On the opposite, a chaos mage can try whatever he wants but have limited controls of what happens.

Most chaotic mages who lives long are somewhere between formalized magic and pure chaotic magic.

I agree with you but I feel that what the players can do should be up to them and not up to the creativity of the person writing the spell list for the rule book. A wizard of appropriate power should be able to conjure up any magic effects that match the magic wind of the order. It might prove to be risky, suicidal or just stupid but in the end it should be about the people at the table having fun.

if a spell says "vs. Target Discipline" then you use the Difficulty based on the difference of the stats, right? (+the modifers stated on the card)

I have played RPGs where magic let the player very free to create his own effect (Mage the ascension, TORG, Ars Magic), it gives a lot of power to the spellcasters and it is very difficult for the gamemaster to balance the players. A creative mage will mimic most of the skills through magic (I think I can imagine a way to open a locked door with almost any magical wind at level 1 or 2, for exemple). Magic becomes quickly the only way to solve a problem, wich is boring for the non-mage players.

It is okay with a group composed only of spellcasters in high fantasy settings, but it is not my feeling of Warhammer.

Yes, balancing stuff like this can be very difficult but it is not a competition so I do not actually see the need to perfectly balance everything. The players in my group all know that it is not about showing the others how awesome their character. Characters can break down doors so why shouldn't the caster be able to blow it open? Picking locks is something totally different and neither strength nor magic enables you to open a lock in a way that the door will still close afterwards and appear just like it was never touched. The player can tell me all day long that he is using his intricate knowledge of magic to pick the mechanism of a lock but that still doesn't make any sense. Regarding the locked door example I just do not see any problem. In the end this might also be based on the fact that I know that my players will be in character and actually play magic like something WH magic where something horrible can happen and not just that clothes change color.

The statement about order magic being formalized and limited is true but it is still insanely powerful (magic in wfrp3 is just very lame even for high ranking casters) and in the end magic users are even more prone to fall to chaos. The idea that all order wizards are perfectly immune to the temptation of chaos just doesn't match with my view of WH. In the end they are all about power and knowledge and getting an edge over their adversaries.

Last but not least: I think if magic (anything) becomes the only way to solve a problem the GM is just doing a terrible job.