It's driving me crazy. Whatever formulas are being used to determine the damages of these weapons as listed in NPC stat blocks is wildly inconsistent.

I have a hunch that the statlines are SUPPOSED TO BE

choppa (1d10+1 R; Pen 2; Tearing, Unbalanced)

power klaw (2d10 E; Pen 7; Unwieldy, doubles user's Strength Bonus)

Does that sound right? Because 50% of the time the damage listed in the NPC stats does not correspond with this, For instance the meganob in EotI does 2d10+ 22 damage, although it logically should be

2d10 + 10 (SB5x2) + 4 (Unnatural Strength +4) + 3 (mega armour) + 2 (crushing blo2) = 2d10+19

Hmm I have a hunch that someone added in his Brutal Charge (3) Trait.

i also noticed that
i think its just adjusted a bit either way for balancing by the authors

would be nice tough to get actually stats for alien weapons so we can more easily make our own badguys

After looking at the stat blocks of various Orks, I'm almost certain that what has happened is that, for some reason, Brutal Charge has often been added into it as well as Crushing Blow, and the base profiles for the weapons are

choppa (1d10 R; Pen 2; Tearing), so an Ork boy does 1d10+SB6 + 1 for Crushing Blow = 1d10+7.

power klaw (2d10 E; Pen 7; doubles user's Strength Bonus [NOT Unnatural Strength]), so a Warboss with Strength 60, WS 45, Unnatural Strength (5), Mega Armour, and Crushing Blow will do 2d10 + (6x2) + 5 + 3 + 2 = 2d10+22.

but shoudnt the klaw double the final strength bonus after unnatural and mega armour?
cant remember how that was handled in the other wh40k games

Old Unnatural characteristics were multipliers (x2, x3) Power Fists multiplier was added to it. So x2 became x3 and so fort.

Power armour was also added after said multiplier. Example (SBx2)+20/30(power/terminator armour)

What Routa-maa said.

The equation being used is, I believe

2d10 + (Base SB x 2) + Unnatural Strength Bonus + Strength Bonus from Mega-Armour + Crushing Blow + Brutal Charge (note that this means the damage values are not accurate whenever they are not charging!)

Otherwise the damage would be much much much higher, more like 2d10 + 40.

I come from 4e DnD, where monster blocks are entirely self contained and don't require any reference to books.

For this reason, I don't mind that choppa damage is inconsistent, I just use the value given. I'm also not a huge fan of giving monsters traits from the book, because this requires looking up several things just to use a monster whose description should really only be less than half a page.

Things like 'unnatural toughness(2)' and 'fear(2)' are pretty straightforward, but I just find myself adding some bonus damage on the charge when I see 'brutal charge' rather than wasting time to look it up.

I think I'm spoiled from other rpgs I've played, and I think being spoiled is a good thing. When I create monsters myself I'll probably just list the abilities rather than giving traits and letting someone else look them up. For example, in an Ork entry, I'll just write (+10 WP tests per ork within 10m).

I come from 4e DnD, where monster blocks are entirely self contained and don't require any reference to books.

For this reason, I don't mind that choppa damage is inconsistent, I just use the value given. I'm also not a huge fan of giving monsters traits from the book, because this requires looking up several things just to use a monster whose description should really only be less than half a page.

Things like 'unnatural toughness(2)' and 'fear(2)' are pretty straightforward, but I just find myself adding some bonus damage on the charge when I see 'brutal charge' rather than wasting time to look it up.

I think I'm spoiled from other rpgs I've played, and I think being spoiled is a good thing. When I create monsters myself I'll probably just list the abilities rather than giving traits and letting someone else look them up. For example, in an Ork entry, I'll just write (+10 WP tests per ork within 10m).

This would be reasonable if the characteristics of the enemies and NPCs were accurate; that is the real issue, not how much choppas do. Actually the stats are sometimes completely off, not as a design issue but because somebody did not add.

(Which I figured out is actually 1d10+1 Pen 2 Tearing Unbalanced, the same as in Rogue Trader.)

The equation being used is, I believe

2d10 + (Base SB x 2) + Unnatural Strength Bonus + Strength Bonus from Mega-Armour + Crushing Blow + Brutal Charge (note that this means the damage values are not accurate whenever they are not charging!)

I went through one calculation that made correct sum, at least in the Meganobs case, Warboss was differend beast when I tried to grapple his numbers.

2d10 + (Base SB + Strength Bonus from Mega-Armour) x2 + Unnatural Strength Bonus + Crushing Blow

2d10 + (5 + 3) x2 + 4 + 2 = 2d10 + 16 + 4 + 2 = 2d10 + 22

The equation being used is, I believe

2d10 + (Base SB x 2) + Unnatural Strength Bonus + Strength Bonus from Mega-Armour + Crushing Blow + Brutal Charge (note that this means the damage values are not accurate whenever they are not charging!)

I went through one calculation that made correct sum, at least in the Meganobs case, Warboss was differend beast when I tried to grapple his numbers.

2d10 + (Base SB + Strength Bonus from Mega-Armour) x2 + Unnatural Strength Bonus + Crushing Blow

2d10 + (5 + 3) x2 + 4 + 2 = 2d10 + 16 + 4 + 2 = 2d10 + 22

That can't be right -- 40K games have never added the bonus for power armour into the doubling.

In all other games it would have been 2d10 + (Base SB x2) + armour + unnatural strength + crushing blow

2d10 + (5x2) + 3 + 4 + 2 = 2d10 + 19.

That's why I suspect they added in Brutal Charge (3)

I don't have EotI, just the core book and Final Testament. Looking at the boyz, runtherds and kommandos, they all have SB 4, WSB 3, and crushing blow. In all cases, choppa damage is listed at 1d10 + 6. This would fit with choppas being 1d10 + 1, +4 from SB, +1 from crushing blow. Kommandos and boyz both have brutal charge 1, runtherds have brutal charge 2, so the brutal charge does not appear to be factored into the listed damage. Similarly, the nob has S 49 and US(4), making a total SB of 8. WS 46 and crushing blow makes another +2, for a total of +10. Listed damage is 1d10 + 11, so base damage 1d10 + 1 here as well. Brutal charge (3) does not seem to be included.

The speed freeks in FT, however, have a listed damage of 1d10 + 5 with choppas, despite having the same SB and WS (and crushing blow) as the boyz, runtherds and kommandos. (They also have a small 6 printed in the S box, as if they had US(2), but I suspect this is a typo, as they don't have US, and it would fit poorly with the 1d10 + 5 damage.) Furthermore, Big Mek Noshdakka has his choppa damage listed at 1d10 + 10, despite having a total SB of 8 and 2 from crushing blow. Personally I can't see any other way this could hold than if the choppa in these cases is 1d10 flat, so it appears to fit with the hypothesis that damage can vary from entry to entry. Whether due to a design balance decision or someone not adding up correctly, we can only speculate.

As for the power klaw, there are 3 entries in FT with one.

• Boss Garbark has: S 55, US(5) , WSB 5 and crushing blow, damaged mega armour and a listed damage of 2d10 + 20. His power klaw is listed as unbalanced, not unwieldy.
• The Meganob has S 79, US(4), WSB 4 and crushing blow, damaged mega armour and a listed damage of 2d10 + 17.
• Guzzsmasha has S 80, US(4), no crushing blow, mega armour and a listed damage of 2d10 + 17.

These strength scores are listed as including the 30 S from the mega armour. This seems odd for Garbark, however, as this would leave him at 25 S without the armour. If we hypothesize that they've forgotten to add in the +30 in his stat line, they all fit with the power klaw basically being a power fist with R instead of E: 2d10, double natural SB.

• 5x2 (SB doubled) + 5 (US) + 3 (MA) + 2 (CB) = 20
• 4x2 + 4 + 3 + 2 = 17
• 5x2 + 4 + 3 = 17

The Boss having unbalanced instead of unwieldy for the klaw could be an individual adjustment to make him somewhat harder to kill, or alternately a typo. I guess I'll play it as written.

All in all, then, I would say that brutal charge is not generally included in the listed damage, at least not in FT. The extra 3 damage in the OP does seem odd, though, and the suspicion that BC is included there by mistake might be correct. Are there any other entries in EotI that have the power klaw?

All in all, then, I would say that brutal charge is not generally included in the listed damage, at least not in FT. The extra 3 damage in the OP does seem odd, though, and the suspicion that BC is included there by mistake might be correct. Are there any other entries in EotI that have the power klaw?

Yes, nobs.

I'll look up the stats later.

This is why I appreciate games like Rogue Trader; they might give you a list of weapons you have no business using (but RTs laugh at such rules), but they still give you a table, amongst the more general Imperial weapons tables that stats out the weapons thus. Deathwatch Mark of the Xenos did, too, and Space Marines don't use other people's guns.

Maybe a nice little errata page for Only War, giving the base stats for xenos weapons, would be appropriate.