So in the book it says Damage: +0 Special: Stun 3 for the shock gloves, does that mean only 3 stun damage? I'm planning to shake hands with a enemy with the shock gloves and hold on tight. Would that be a instant O.K. Or just 3 stun?

You need to make a Brawl attack to use them. You inflict damage normally, and if you get 2 advantages, you can spend them to add the Stun. As written, the gloves don't work for non-violent contact, but it might be allowable to use Skulduggery instead of Brawl for such an "attack" but there wouldn't be any base damage in such a case, just the potential to trigger Stun with 2 Advantages.

You need to make a Brawl attack to use them. You inflict damage normally, and if you get 2 advantages, you can spend them to add the Stun. As written, the gloves don't work for non-violent contact, but it might be allowable to use Skulduggery instead of Brawl for such an "attack" but there wouldn't be any base damage in such a case, just the potential to trigger Stun with 2 Advantages.

Ok and once you trigger stun, do you have to match the enemies entire strain damage to O.K. The enemy? Or just get enough advantages?

You need to make a Brawl attack to use them. You inflict damage normally, and if you get 2 advantages, you can spend them to add the Stun. As written, the gloves don't work for non-violent contact, but it might be allowable to use Skulduggery instead of Brawl for such an "attack" but there wouldn't be any base damage in such a case, just the potential to trigger Stun with 2 Advantages.

Ok and once you trigger stun, do you have to match the enemies entire strain damage to O.K. The enemy? Or just get enough advantages?

You need to do more than their strain threshold to KO them.

Do shock gloves count as a weapon? I'm asking due to Pressure Point in the Doctor tree.

As written, the gloves don't work for non-violent contact

That's not strictly true. As far as rules created to facilitate such an action, you're correct, but the blurb about the weapons states specifically

[many] nefarious rogues have been known to "seal the deal" with a handshake that leaves a rival convulsing on the floor.

While I do certainly think that your skullduggery check idea could work, I think it would be better to be resolved narratively. In the same vein that if you had the opportunity to shoot your target from point blank, in the stomach (a la Han Solo) it wouldn't make sense to do it in terms of regular combat damage (which in my mind generally deals in the build up of minor wounds and glancing blows). This is a willing participant in a handshake that can be maintained until the target it down. Sure, I'd roll to see if the target notices anything fishy, but otherwise I'd personally resolve the situation narratively.

This is a particular point where I feel like rules-heavy RPGs tend to fail somewhat. In a similar vein, if you're a rogue in D&D, you can't really just sneak up behind someone, slit their throat silently and hide them in the bushes if you do everything in terms of the combat system. This is just my personal feeling on the matter, but I sometimes think that certain situations (like this) warrant ditching the combat mechanics, unless the target is particularly tough.

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Stun: When stun quality is activated, it inflicts strain equal to the stun rating.

So stun 3 = 3 strain if you activate it

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Stun: When stun quality is activated, it inflicts strain equal to the stun rating.

So stun 3 = 3 strain if you activate it

This. You don't technically "add stun damage" to your attack with the Stun quality; you simply inflict strain.

Damage for unmodified Stun Gloves is Brawn + 0.

To the question of how to KO the enemy, you must inflict strain in excess of your opponent's Strain Threshold. Suddenly, I have found a GREAT use for the Jury Rigger talent. 3 strain (that soak doesn't reduce) for 1 Advantage ain't too shabby.

And to the rest of the munchkins out there, yes of course stun gloves are a weapon. So no using them in conjunction with Pressure Point

Page 157

Stun: When stun quality is activated, it inflicts strain equal to the stun rating.

So stun 3 = 3 strain if you activate it

This. You don't technically "add stun damage" to your attack with the Stun quality; you simply inflict strain.

Damage for unmodified Stun Gloves is Brawn + 0.

To the question of how to KO the enemy, you must inflict strain in excess of your opponent's Strain Threshold. Suddenly, I have found a GREAT use for the Jury Rigger talent. 3 strain (that soak doesn't reduce) for 1 Advantage ain't too shabby.

And to the rest of the munchkins out there, yes of course stun gloves are a weapon. So no using them in conjunction with Pressure Point

It came up in our group about whether they were weapons or not. I said they were not even though I'd benefit from it. I think my Doctor is powerful enough with just doing 5 strain unmitigated. There's no need to be able to do 18+ per hit.

To the question of how to KO the enemy, you must inflict strain in excess of your opponent's Strain Threshold. Suddenly, I have found a GREAT use for the Jury Rigger talent. 3 strain (that soak doesn't reduce) for 1 Advantage ain't too shabby.

This is what our Outlaw Tech droid did with her shock glove attachment.

It's not so cheesy as activating auto-fire on one advantage either.

You can only activate this quality once I assume. So going by the jury rigger talent and dual wielding shock gloves, you could end up causing 6 strain from the stun quality, which ignore soak i believe (unless two-weapon fighting with brawling weapons is not allowed by your reckoning) and if I'm right, although this could bear a carry over from the beta, brawling attacks can choose to cause strain instead of wound damage - this damage latter strain damage from fists would be soaked I assume. Thoughts?

You can only activate this quality once I assume. So going by the jury rigger talent and dual wielding shock gloves, you could end up causing 6 strain from the stun quality, which ignore soak i believe (unless two-weapon fighting with brawling weapons is not allowed by your reckoning) and if I'm right, although this could bear a carry over from the beta, brawling attacks can choose to cause strain instead of wound damage - this damage latter strain damage from fists would be soaked I assume. Thoughts?

The real question is can you activate it twice if you wield 2. I would say no, unless you use them as two weapons with all the rules that entails.

The jury rigger issue isn't much of one to me. It would take 2 talents to get both rigged, and for that cost 6 strain on 2 advantage isn't much to worry about.

It came up in our group about whether they were weapons or not. I said they were not even though I'd benefit from it. I think my Doctor is powerful enough with just doing 5 strain unmitigated. There's no need to be able to do 18+ per hit.

It's pretty clear that the talent is referring to Brawling weapons. It's only usable with Brawl attacks, so to explicitly eliminate weapons could only refer to ones usable with Brawl.

The real question is can you activate it twice if you wield 2. I would say no, unless you use them as two weapons with all the rules that entails.

The jury rigger issue isn't much of one to me. It would take 2 talents to get both rigged, and for that cost 6 strain on 2 advantage isn't much to worry about.

Certainly, I mean using the full two-weapon fighting rules.

Good catch on the jury rigger talent for both gloves. I'm uncertain about this part though. Because on one side you're probably right, by a strict reading of the rules. I'd still assume that these come in pairs, it's not like you attack using only one fist... nor do I think that the 2 advantages required means you hit with the "right" fist... unless you're only wearing one glove of course. Of course this is moving over into interpretation land and what one consider reasonable to assume. In my mind I'd at least be willing to test it before I would require two talents for 6 strain damage, considering the increased difficulty and all.

The real question is can you activate it twice if you wield 2. I would say no, unless you use them as two weapons with all the rules that entails.

The jury rigger issue isn't much of one to me. It would take 2 talents to get both rigged, and for that cost 6 strain on 2 advantage isn't much to worry about.

Certainly, I mean using the full two-weapon fighting rules.

Good catch on the jury rigger talent for both gloves. I'm uncertain about this part though. Because on one side you're probably right, by a strict reading of the rules. I'd still assume that these come in pairs, it's not like you attack using only one fist... nor do I think that the 2 advantages required means you hit with the "right" fist... unless you're only wearing one glove of course. Of course this is moving over into interpretation land and what one consider reasonable to assume. In my mind I'd at least be willing to test it before I would require two talents for 6 strain damage, considering the increased difficulty and all.

My assumption would be that brawling weapons are single. It's not like people only would attack with one fist, and the narrative should show that the character is using everything they have.

That said, I don't find it strange to have a single hand have a special weapon like this. It's not like everyone who uses brass knuckles uses them in pairs.

Certainly, I mean using the full two-weapon fighting rules.

The real question is can you activate it twice if you wield 2. I would say no, unless you use them as two weapons with all the rules that entails.

The jury rigger issue isn't much of one to me. It would take 2 talents to get both rigged, and for that cost 6 strain on 2 advantage isn't much to worry about.

Good catch on the jury rigger talent for both gloves. I'm uncertain about this part though. Because on one side you're probably right, by a strict reading of the rules. I'd still assume that these come in pairs, it's not like you attack using only one fist... nor do I think that the 2 advantages required means you hit with the "right" fist... unless you're only wearing one glove of course. Of course this is moving over into interpretation land and what one consider reasonable to assume. In my mind I'd at least be willing to test it before I would require two talents for 6 strain damage, considering the increased difficulty and all.

My assumption would be that brawling weapons are single. It's not like people only would attack with one fist, and the narrative should show that the character is using everything they have.

That said, I don't find it strange to have a single hand have a special weapon like this. It's not like everyone who uses brass knuckles uses them in pairs.

I think I'd probably also rule that Brawl weapons can be used with two-weapon fighting. It's a way for a brawler to at least somewhat keep up with the blaster wielders if they focus in it. And it would seem kind of odd that blaster pistols, swords, etc. can be used in pairs for additional effect (at the cost of additional difficulty), but there's no way for a 'boxer' to gain equivalent 'productivity' in a fight.

I guess I am doing it wrong. I am allowing our passivist droid doctor with shock gloves who refuses to kill anything do too much damage(strain) then. I let him add the shock value 3 to his brawl attack as if it's a +3 and just allow him to do it all as strain damage adding on pressure point ignoring soak.

He doesn't typically get the chances to melee attack very often witht he way he rollplays his character so I don't think it's a big issue in my game at this time. I will have to tone it down some later on if it gets out of hand, thanks for bringing this info to my attention.

I always considered it like he was squeezing them very hard as he is using his shock gloves and allowing him to add in more damage.

Fun > rules though right?

Kinda off the wall but can brawlers attack more than two times if they get enough advantages? Kicks, headbutts, elbows, knees etc.?

He doesn't typically get the chances to melee attack very often witht he way he rollplays his character so I don't think it's a big issue in my game at this time. I will have to tone it down some later on if it gets out of hand, thanks for bringing this info to my attention.

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Fun > rules though right?

Yes, but if you're considering "toning it down" later, I would act preemptively just tell your player, "Hey, I misread the rules, but this is how we're gonna run with it from now on." If he wants to boost his damage, just have him increase his Medicine skill or his Brawn At least, that's what I'd do.

Kinda off the wall but can brawlers attack more than two times if they get enough advantages? Kicks, headbutts, elbows, knees etc.?

So, you're suggesting something along autofire rules rather than two-weapon fighting rules? It's not so off-the-wall, and I might be inclined to allow it, but not with any brawling weapons. Only completely unarmed. That's my initial reaction to the idea, at any rate.

He doesn't typically get the chances to melee attack very often witht he way he rollplays his character so I don't think it's a big issue in my game at this time. I will have to tone it down some later on if it gets out of hand, thanks for bringing this info to my attention.

...

Fun > rules though right?

Yes, but if you're considering "toning it down" later, I would act preemptively just tell your player, "Hey, I misread the rules, but this is how we're gonna run with it from now on." If he wants to boost his damage, just have him increase his Medicine skill or his Brawn At least, that's what I'd do.

Kinda off the wall but can brawlers attack more than two times if they get enough advantages? Kicks, headbutts, elbows, knees etc.?

So, you're suggesting something along autofire rules rather than two-weapon fighting rules? It's not so off-the-wall, and I might be inclined to allow it, but not with any brawling weapons. Only completely unarmed. That's my initial reaction to the idea, at any rate.

I would agree as well. No weapons could be used. I'll have to run it by my GM and see what he says. Seems like it could be pretty cool flavor wise.

making brawling autofire would be a pretty nice talent for a martial artist specialization

making brawling autofire would be a pretty nice talent for a martial artist specialization

Don't tell nobody but my "Doctor" is studying Teras Kesi =p

making brawling autofire would be a pretty nice talent for a martial artist specialization

I do have an old homebrewed martial arts specialization floating around somewhere from the Beta period, where I did one of these I was kinda just playing around with the system, and never made the Talent Tree available to my players.

The thing I like about this system is that everything just makes sense. The more you play, and the more you read, and the more you make characters, the more things just click. And so when you create a homebrew talent, you can just tell when it's better to decrease the difficulty or downgrade it, or provide a Boost die, or suffer 1 strain or 4, or make something cost 2 Advantage or a Triumph, or whatnot.

Lots of sense being made right here in this system.