I'm slightly confused by how some of the skills in EotE relate to each other and how tasks should be allocated to one skill or the other. For instance Perception, Vigilance, and Cool all have elements of being aware of one's surroundings, while Cool and Discipline (and Resilience) have elements of staying focused on a task.

I was wondering how other groups handle them.

To my mind, the core elements of the skills are:

• Resilience: remaining unaffected by physical privations (trained Brawn)
• Discipline: remaining unaffected by mental privations and temptations (skilled Willpower)
• Cool: a "human perception" skill for reading other people, and about staying calm and collected in interpersonal interactions .

But I can't get a handle on the difference between Vigilance and Perception.

I can see Perception being a "trained intelligence" skill, for reasoning out puzzles and incongruities, and perceiving things in the environment.

But Vigilance is the one I'm struggling with. I'm not sure when I would call for a Vigilance check instead of a Perception one, apart from the "did you bring the useful geegaw?" moments.

An alternative split would be to drop Perception and replace it with Analysis, the skill of thinking. Analysis would be used for reasoning, puzzles, and organising information, but not perception. That leaves Vigilance for the skill of being constantly aware of your environment and noticing the world around you.

The easiest way for me is to play Perception and Vigilance as "active vs. passive." If a player's intentionally looking for something, they make a Perception check. If I need to know if they've picked up on something, I ask them to make a Vigilance check.

Perception = being able to tell or spot something that is there

Vigilance = being able to anticipate and react to something that is about to happen

On a basic level, vigilance is noticing little things, like wildlife being disturbed as someone creeps up on you

Perception on the other hand would be noticing that the stormtrooper that just entered your cell is a little on the short side.

Cool vs vigilance is a little easier. Cool is knowing combat is about to happen and not letting nerves get in the way of you acting. Eg a sprinter needs cool to react to a starters gun. You know the guns going off just not when. A vigilant person might not react as fast. Whereas a sprinter might react faster while out hunting with a vigilant friend, his vigilant friend may have had his gun ready because he noticed something that alerts him to a presence that isnt there, allowing them to get a shot off first.

I'm slightly confused by how some of the skills in EotE relate to each other and how tasks should be allocated to one skill or the other. For instance Perception, Vigilance, and Cool all have elements of being aware of one's surroundings, while Cool and Discipline (and Resilience) have elements of staying focused on a task.

I was wondering how other groups handle them.

To my mind, the core elements of the skills are:

• Resilience: remaining unaffected by physical privations (trained Brawn)
• Discipline: remaining unaffected by mental privations and temptations (skilled Willpower)
• Cool: a "human perception" skill for reading other people, and about staying calm and collected in interpersonal interactions .

But I can't get a handle on the difference between Vigilance and Perception.

I can see Perception being a "trained intelligence" skill, for reasoning out puzzles and incongruities, and perceiving things in the environment.

But Vigilance is the one I'm struggling with. I'm not sure when I would call for a Vigilance check instead of a Perception one, apart from the "did you bring the useful geegaw?" moments.

An alternative split would be to drop Perception and replace it with Analysis, the skill of thinking. Analysis would be used for reasoning, puzzles, and organising information, but not perception. That leaves Vigilance for the skill of being constantly aware of your environment and noticing the world around you.

To me, Perception and Vigilance largely represent active/passive or conscious/subconscious aspects of awareness. If you're perceptive, you tend to notice things when you're actively looking for them. If you're Vigilant, you tend to notice things that are out of place for whatever reason.

Think of Vigilance as situational awareness. That thug on the corner isn't doing anything *actively* hostile, but that voice in the back of your head says he's up to no good.

On the other hand, the crime scene investigator, after the ensuing fight uses perception to find the shell casings, and other such evidence that he's seeking. That's perception.

Another thing about Cool as far as initiative goes is not letting on that you are about to act. You are able to handle your tells that you are about to draw your blaster and go to town.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. What you're saying is close enough to what I was thinking (but expressing poorly) to move on.

Isn't it the other way around though? Perception is described as 'passive awareness', when a character isn't actively looking for something. So I would assume that Perception is the kind of roll that GM will ask for, when the PCs are just walking along and may or may notice something they are not actively searching for.

Of course, reading over Vigilance, it's not really described as 'active' awareness, either. It seems to be more along the line of being ready to act when things inevitably goes south so the two skills, by Vigilance's description, doesn't really seem to be counterpoints.

In fact, there doesn't seem to be an 'active awareness' skill. What do you roll for search?

I agree that Vigilance is kind of a one trick pony skill, so many other skills like Cool, Perception and Discipline that really manage almost any situation Vigilance becomes hard to fit into the game. I do think however it has a place.

First and foremost is the fact that's its the default initiative skill check. Another words, unless you are surprised and forced to make a cool check, you are always making a Vigilance check for initiative.

Aside from that however Vigilance is the active preparation for the unexpected. When you knowingly walk into an ambush you make a vigilance check when the fight starts not a cool check. Perception check is different because a perception check might reveal a sniper in a tree, but even you incidentally spot them, unless you where prepared for an ambush your making a cool check.

No role-playing game is perfect, this one included, of the few gripes I have, Vigilance is one of them. Its really kind of one of those skills you use for one specific thing (initiative) but outside of that, there are better skills that handle other more narrative situation. Vigilance is a skill you might use in situations where you need to see if your character thought to bring a piece of gear for a situation that obvious would benefit from such gear according to the book. So for example your going into a jungle, does your character think to bring a motion tracker? Maybe you didn't but the GM might allow a vigilance check to see if your character did.

Tricky skills, tricky names.

Discipline is a Willpower skill from D6, also a Sense Motive from D20.

Vigilance is alertness/spot/preparedness in one. You roll it only when a GM asks for it, never intentionally. The GM should use it for unexpected and problems.

Perception is Search from D6, you initiate it. So if you are going to search the room, you may notice the trap with this skill, but if you just walk then it will be Vigilance check to spot the trap. Same for ambushes, skulduggery, etc.

Cool, now that a tricky name. For me it is a Gambling skill as per Under a Black Sun rules. Plus to resist and init.

But this is all only IMO.

First and foremost is the fact that's its the default initiative skill check. Another words, unless you are surprised and forced to make a cool check, you are always making a Vigilance check for initiative.

Aside from that however Vigilance is the active preparation for the unexpected. When you knowingly walk into an ambush you make a vigilance check when the fight starts not a cool check. Perception check is different because a perception check might reveal a sniper in a tree, but even you incidentally spot them, unless you where prepared for an ambush your making a cool check.

Err, the other way around surely - you make a cool check if you are anticipating action otherwise you rely on vigilance (according to p199 and it was this way in the beginners game as well). This for me confirms the passive nature of vigilance when compared to perception which is active.

A perception check will reveal the sniper if the PC actively searches (opposed by the sniper's stealth). If he doesn't the first the PCs will know of it is when the sniper shoots - that's the point I would roll initiative (vigilance).

Here's how I use some of the most ambiguous skills:

Cool: I use this to deal with player nerves. If a NPC mentions something and the PCs don't want to show a reaction. Or for initiating a combat they know is coming. Also for gambling.

Discipline: To me this is focus or concentration, more of an active ability than Cool is. Resisting pain or torture, opposing Negotiation, Charm, or Coerce tests, etc. Occasionally I'll also use it to see if NPCs break off a fight.

Perception: an active ability, like Search or Scrutiny in WH40kRPGs. Looting bodies, looking for important data, locating hidden entrances, etc.

Resilience: dealing with extreme temperatures, poor atmosphere, resisting choke holds

Vigilance: a passive equivalent, like Awareness from WH40KRPG. Initiative when you aren't expecting a fight, catching slip-ups form an NPC, noticing things you aren't specifically looking for.

Tricky skills, tricky names.

Discipline is a Willpower skill from D6, also a Sense Motive from D20.

Vigilance is alertness/spot/preparedness in one. You roll it only when a GM asks for it, never intentionally. The GM should use it for unexpected and problems.

Perception is Search from D6, you initiate it. So if you are going to search the room, you may notice the trap with this skill, but if you just walk then it will be Vigilance check to spot the trap. Same for ambushes, skulduggery, etc.

Cool, now that a tricky name. For me it is a Gambling skill as per Under a Black Sun rules. Plus to resist and init.

But this is all only IMO.

I completely agree with this assessment. I wish my players weren't so argumentative every time I bring up the distinction. they love to second guess game design.

"Why do I have to roll 2 separate skills for initiative based on a situation? Why can't I roll 1 skill, or either 1?"

http://theskillmonkey.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/skill-monkey-hyper-vigilant.html

Excellent description of vigilance.

Perception does not have to be active, in most of the adventures made by fantasy flight there is an example of passive perception use.

The easiest way for me is to play Perception and Vigilance as "active vs. passive." If a player's intentionally looking for something, they make a Perception check. If I need to know if they've picked up on something, I ask them to make a Vigilance check.

Isn't it the other way around though? Perception is described as 'passive awareness', when a character isn't actively looking for something. So I would assume that Perception is the kind of roll that GM will ask for, when the PCs are just walking along and may or may notice something they are not actively searching for.

Of course, reading over Vigilance, it's not really described as 'active' awareness, either. It seems to be more along the line of being ready to act when things inevitably goes south so the two skills, by Vigilance's description, doesn't really seem to be counterpoints.

In fact, there doesn't seem to be an 'active awareness' skill. What do you roll for search?

You're totally right that the book describes Perception as "passive," which I tend to ignore. "Passive vs. Active" is maybe a bad set of terminology on my part - it really has to do with agency. Simply put, there is focused intent with Perception (and yes, this is what I use for "searching" skill checks). Vigilance is "always on," in the sense that it's reactive as opposed to proactive. (And besides, with the amount of people with D&D familiarity, using "Perception" as a 1:1 parallel makes it easy.)

The book makes a bit of a muddle of these two, and so I usually just keep the chart from the back of the beginner box rulebook out (it makes for a much better quick reference). It's simplified and makes it a lot clearer that Perception is used as a means of agency for the player while Vigilance is used when the player isn't expecting something.

As others have said Perception is not the same as Vigilance, they can overlap but they have different purposes.

Perception is for spotting something that is already present that you are actively looking for (even if you don't know specifically what you are looking for), like finding a hidden box on a room or to see a gesture someone makes or to catch non-obvious item or action.

Vigilance is to notice something that is about to or has begun to happen or appear that you are not actively looking for or is unexpected. Such as a person sneaking into a room you are in or an object falling from a roof or a trap activating (not necessarily the physical trap but a traps effect). It represents not actively looking for something but instead noticing something with out actually asking to look for it.

Other games put these together but they are distinctly different and will have different affects on PCs in a scene.

In the context of a session and how the various skills would work from my understanding.

Party members A, B, C, and D.

A is scouting for enemy artillery, B and C are routinely patrolling the trenches, and D is watching from his sniper perch. D knows that the enemy's favored tactic is an artillery bombardment. Followed by an infantry assault.

A (a trandoshan) uses perception as he picks through the underbrush and catches the tell tale scent of high explosives. Before the roar of cannons blasts throughout the forest.

B and C make a vigilance check and hear the unmistakable whistle of artillery shells zeroing in on their position and they dive for cover.

As the bombardment subsides and the enemy infantry assault the trench B and C make vigilance checks to react first to the intruders while D makes a cool check as he lines up his sights on an unsuspecting trooper.

I like to think of the difference between Vigilance and Perception thusly: Perception is for noticing details , while Vigilance is for noticing events . Both can be either active or passive, as the situation dictates.

Thinking of it narratively, a perceptive character would have both skills, and many times when you roll, what you're trying to notice has elements of both. But the important question to ask when deciding between them is this: What is the most important thing that a person can glean here? Is it specific information about the objects or people or environment? That's Perception. Is it knowing that something even happened at all? That's Vigilance.

So, example. A bus goes by on the street. If this is a narratively important event and players need to glean information from it, determine why it's significant. If the significance is that the ad on the side of the bus has a clue, or the number of people on the bus as it goes by will be important to know later, use Perception, as the important part is noticing details about the bus. However, if the important fact is that bus went by at all, that would be Vigilance.

...I don't think I'm explaining it as well as I normally do...hopefully that makes some kind of sense...

Vigilance is being aware of surroundings and reacting to events. Glancing over your shoulder to notice the guy coming from behind, looking to windows or rooftops for snipers. Perception is about noticing the ad on the bus that just drove by, the team logo on the hat of the guy behind you, the name of the hotel the sniper was in/on.