So I was sitting in my plywood house at FOB Lagman in Afghanistan the other night leafing through the fan made supplement for Adeptus Astartes by the Patriot and Darthbane on my laptop when it occured to me that there is another way of doing space marines in Dark Heresy (or even RT). Of course in 2010 we should have full fledged space marine rules, but anyway....

Neophyte: Neophyte would be a "origin" PCs could choose. It basically means the character is from a Space Marine home world and has undergone the basic begining indoctrination, training and implants to become a space marine, while not getting the full set of implants and official "hazing" into the Chapter.

How I would use them in DH is simple. Being neophytes without all the implants they do not have the size and mass of a true full space marine (yet at least) and therefore can still go undercover and or blend into the normal setting. And yet they would still have skills, talents and assets useful to a Inquisitor and the connections needed within the proper order.

More later.

This is actually a really obvious idea that i'm suprised no one has thought of yet, but i'm glad you're on this one.

It'd be a good way for the Neophyte to prove his worth for some un-named chapter that whilst operating at full strength is able to afford the time for peopel to under go the years with an inquisitor.

Unless of coure the Inquisitor specificalyl asked for THAT neophyte as he knows what might befall them in the future (Say through a Warp message bearing his name as Chapter Master or one of the other major figures in the chapter. What Inquisitor would refuse such a potential ally...).

Excellent idea.

Rules man give us rules!

This is how I was writing rules for an all space marine party. Starting out as aspirants, getting implants etc a bit at a time.

However I'm not really sure that they'd be very appropriate in an inquisitorial retinue. The chapter isn't going to be giving out its noobies before they've been thoroughly indoctrinated into the chapter cult, otherwise they could be exposed to dangerous 'ideas' at a vulnerable point in their development and training.

Also, I'm not really sure that a noobie scout can accomplish much that a trained guardsman can't, except hold a worse conversation and not form friendships with people over trivial things.

So, apart from getting to be a space marine, punch planets and spit acid, what is the point of actually being a 17 year old non space marine scout initiate?

Hellebore

Actually, and I do appreciate the commentary and suggestions, I think it would work quite well. First, I see them as Neophytes, not scouts, as in Black Templar style "squires" and I can see thier "sponsors" loaning them out into the Calixis Sector for experience and growth under the mentorship of a Inquisitor.

Second, I do recall reading somewhere that the Black Templars either had a cathedral/temple in the Calixis Sector or had an abandoned one at least. So I can see the Templars sending in members of their chapter to scout out, restore or reclaim these places in preparation for operations in the Halo Stars.

Third, it would be an alternate "origin" not career, much like Feral World, Noble Born and so forth, just be called Chapter Son or Neophyte or something space mariny.

Fourth, these would not necessarily be full blown space marines, but those earning their "stripes" so to say. So they have to prove themselves before getting the major benefits.

Fifth, to become a true "lesser" marine (Scout, Black Templar Neophyte) would be a "alternate career rank" at Rank 3 or so and they would have to meet certain requirements (stat levels, a limit on corruption points/insanity points and so forth) and then to get the implants and "spae marine power pills" they would have to spend XP, much like Tech Priests getting the Machine Resurrection stuff.

Yes, they would not be great at "communication" and "interaction", or at least not any more so or less so then other players.

Overall, I would probably create a "new and unique" chapter that operates occassionally in the Calixis Sector that uses this kind of Knights Errant approach to training its Neophytes.

As for why the Inquisitor uses them, for the same reason they use Sisters and Guardsmen. They can hold a gun, swing a sword and so forth.

But I am not a Space Marine expert. For example, what happens to those who do not prove worthy of final implants? Are they killed? Do they have their implants removed? and so forth.

Those characters using this origin world would not have to take any alternate ranks to become space marines, but have the option to if they so wish, if they meet the requirements and if the GM allows them to.

Peacekeeper_b said:

IIRC, they become indentured serfs of the chapter and among other things are often used as crew on marine warships.

Peacekeeper_b said:

`it's the world of Cloister in Hazeroth sub-sector. Alas, that is all we know about it...

Demo said:

Or get lobotomized and turned into servitors...

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

Maybe thats why the kid is with the Inquisitor! Perhaps he was part of one of the batshit nutty Chapters that are always harping "death before failure". So while on a joint mission with the Chapter an the Inquisitor the Neophyte screws up and is about to get lobotomized. The Inquisitor swoops in of course and offers to take the poor guy under his wing, an offer the Chapter can't refuse because even they aren't above the Inquisitorial seal. So now the Neophyte is being groomed by his new boss for what purpose there remains to be seen.

LordMunchkin said:

I like it. If he is just a neophyte when the inquisitor spirits him away he will probably not have received all the implants yet though, and will not be able to become "true" marine. Unless his new master has some geneseed (and somebody with the know-how) stuffed away somewhere...but hey, it's not impossible.

Demo said:

As a Inquisitor, he probably already has access to the materials he needs for his new acolyte.

Sorry to ask, but why aren't rules for Space Marines included in this game. Every time I run this I get the same question; Why can't I be a Space Marine, even just an initiate Scout Marine?

Wayfinder said:

Because Space Marines don't work for the inquisition as acolytes so what is the point of putting rules for playing a Space Marine in a game that is based around the idea of working for the inquisition as acolytes.

Wayfinder said:

Wayfinder said:

This is due to severly conflicting fluff on the abilities of a SM in 40k. Sometimes their just excellent soldiers, however more often than not, they are represented as near gods. As most people who want to play SMs want to play as gods, it is incompatible at large with DH because not everyone wants to play a SM, and those that don't are extremely limited in power when compared to them.

I like the idea of Space Marine neophytes as acolytes. But concerning the fluff neophytes should be very young, shouldn't they?

It will be very interesting for a 12 to 14 year old boy to look in the jaws of hell before he is really indoctrinated.

LordMunchkin said:

You mean the "named" characters, such as commanders and such? Because I don't necessarily view them as gods, but definitely superhuman. However, I can see some of the commanders, chaplains and librarians as god-like in their abilities.

I can understand how those that won't play SMs will be weaker in general offensive power. But, to my way of thinking, 40k has always been based around the exploits of the Space Marines and the Imperial Guards. True, it has expanded into the Inquisition, the Sisters of Battle (who I always like to augment with my Black Templars, just because they're cool), and into Chaos and the alien races. To leave out the Space Marines seems a disappointment. To make matters worse, I still don't have a frame of reference for the typical Space Marine should my PCs encounter one (though, admittedly, I don't have all the books).

We like being Inquisitors, but my players, and I, want to role-play Space Marines. Is there any plans for a Space Marine supplement?

Wayfinder said:

Personally I am glad that Space Marines have not featured as PC yet, it would just create problems and for me Space Marines do not fit in with an investigative RP game. However, there are several fan made Space Marine supplements and more officially Purge the Unclean has a fully fledged Deathwatch Sergeant for you to draw reference from.

Death Watch, a Space Marine Themed RPG should be out next year, which is why Im hesitant to write any real Space Marine rules.

I dont think Neophytes have to be 12-14 years old, younger yes, but not 12-14. The Neophyte featured in Damnation Crusade was late teens early 20s Id say, when he was indoctrinated.

Well, that has been my problem with the damnation crusade. I don't like that part of fluff either. The main character in descent of angels is a youngster of around 18?, too. Then with the coming of the Imperium he seems to be almost too old to become a neophyte. In some fluff (well, I can't remember the source, sorry) it is mentioned that a human being who has passed the puberty can't take the implants any longer.

Which surely contradicts to all those mysterious stories of youngsters fighting for their lives much harder than any IG against Orks.... I'm a big Space Marine fan, so keep em coming, but if a chapter lets a neophyte loose, there has to be a good reason.

Regards,

Cal.

Maybe there is a Chapter similar in nature to Alpha Legion, stealth and infiltration focused. They send out candidates to the =I= to learn tradecraft in the field and to see if they are worthy. If they fail to meet the Legions standards they don’t become SM but the Legion now has a fully trained and expendable operative with an established network of contacts.

I would keep the age limit between 14-20.

I think a 400 point background package instead of a separate career path or home world might make for an interesting twist. Limit career choice to Assassin, Arbitrator, Guardsman, Scum, or Psyker.

Although an Astartes home world might be interesting even without any intention of going SM.

Ragnar Blackmane was an adult before he was inducted into the Space Wolves IIRC. I think that getting the implants post-puberty is not the preferred way of doing things (it probably ups the mortality rate) but perfectly doable.

No, like all marines Ragnar Blackmane was inducted at around 10-12. The thing is that the story is written from their perspective by an adult and the characters always come across older than they are.

The point of this was to show how hardcore a marine is. He has to have fought battles at the age of 12 and actually survived (or in the case of the space wolves, died heroically and been resurrected).

This is word for word the process from the original marine creation from 88, which was then reprinted in the Index Astartes articles over the last 10 years making it the most up to date information on the process of recruitment and initiation:

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gene-seed

Hellebore

OK, perhaps people are missing what I am saying.

The characters I am talking about are more or less Junior Space Marines, Neophytes, Scouts, whatever you want to call them. They have the starting implants already, but not all of them.

If you read the link Hellebore provided (thank you, couldnt find it myself so it is helpul) the earliest some of these implants come is at age 10 or so, while most are around 16 and the last ones can be up to 18, usually and typically. I very much dount the space marines are thrusting a bunch of 8 year olds into battle and saying "That young edward, lets give him a secondary heart!"

I like the Alpha Legion comparison.

As we know many space marines dont get or have or use all the implants, either do to mutations in the gene seeds or other reasons. So it isnt too far fetch to think perhaps these particular space marines in question, this new chapter created for this exact purpose, may not have some of the earlier, or even later, implants.

I see it as "We are a shattered Chapter of Space Marines, we are nomads, roamers and seekers. We travel the paths of the emperor and his saints to instill their justice, pass their law and protect the faitful. But alas, we are few, and our domain is vast...." and thus they travel from system to system, not 1000 space marines at a time, but 1 or 2, alone and isolated doing the God Emperor's work. They spend the majority of their youth in massive cathedrals learning the arts of war and the lore of the Imperial Creed and their role in the universe. And before they achieve their birthright (the final implants) they must complete the sacred quest.

I see them, game mechanically and fluff-wise, like a mix between Troll Slayers and Quest Knights. Before gaining their final implants and thus being indoctrinated truly into the Chapter they must defeat a threat to the Emperor's Will, such as a cult, or a demon or a Xeno invader and must do it face to face, one brother alone (help from normal humans is acceptable, but not other chapter resources).

As I said, this would be a special chapter of space marines, perhaps linked to some long ago dishonour or disgrace or debt.

They would have the alternate origin world, perhaps one or two background packages they can pick and normal careers but with a few Alternate Career Ranks available at like rank 3, 5 and 7. (Where they become more and more space marine like)

Ok, given that explanation it certainly makes it more believeable. Perhaps they are an attempt by certain enclaves of inquisitors to produce a 'thinking man's marine'? Apprentice them to the most brilliant minds in the galaxy, give them hands on training in the most vile of hells and develop their minds as well as their bodies.

They become a free thinking space marine. The Exorcists were originally created as an experiment by Inquisitors to produce more powerful marines by possessing and exorcising them of daemons. They seem to be an exclusively Inquisitor controlled chapter:

web.archive.org/web/20010415002026/www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/exorcists.html

Perhaps this is a new kind of chapter, one that could be attempting to train space marines to BECOME inquisitors?

Just some more ideas. Don't think because I disagree with some things that I disapprove of it being done. Anything should work in the right context.

Hellebore

I thought about making Scouts some time ago, there's a fair bit of reluctance to use them for a number of reasons as a player-class unless you could throw someone behind it who wouldn't necessarily overwhelm the existing legacy characters and classes. So I found it was hard to make that type of ultra-heavy hitter fit in with anything else but a very combat-light group who'd rely on only having him and maybe someone else handle all the killing stuff jobs, but if the rest of them wanted to play scum, dialogous, adepts and ad-mech's who aren't real shooty. A guardsman though is more than likely going to feel pretty 2nd best and you don't want to create that feeling in a group dynamic of somone feeling left out of their role.

But by the same extent you don't want to do the scout any injustice either by making them a push-over, they would still be immensely dangerous individuals and fully backed by their marine chapter in terms of gear load out. I don't see the chapter having too much of an issue with one of them being on-loan to the Inquisitor if that Inq happens to be of some benifit to them and asks 'very nicely' so to speak... still, there in lies the problem ultimately if you're having a scout running around is the simple fact that things the wannabe marine will pulp into mince are probably going to tear the arse off anyone else whos remotely mortal. Well, except the psykers, who seem to be in a league of their own in terms of breaking games I can deal with Psykers though by being completely ruthless with the rules.

Dezmond is conspicuously absent.