The Long Plan - What happens if it's canceled?

By Bomb, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

Posted at

Hey everyone -

I asked the following question via the Rules Questions link:

When "The Long Plan" comes out of the shadows via it's Response:

"Response: After you have lost your third challenge in the same phase, bring The Long Plan out of Shadows by paying the rest of its gold cost. Then, claim 3 power for your House. (Limit 1 per phase.)"

If this is canceled, would it stay in the shadows or be discarded? The reason I ask is because the effect itself is to bring itself out of the shadows(like Meera Reeds Any Phase ability), so if it is canceled, that means it never came out of the shadows.

This is the first Shadow event that has a Response that pulls itself out of the shadows, so we don't have a precedence in place and wasn't sure if this would be treated like the Shadow rules on shadow events.

Thanks!

I got the following reply from Damon Stone. It's very interesting.

It works just the same. Any thing that would cancel a triggered effect or Response effect would cancel the effect to bring The Long Plan out of Shadows which while all costs had been paid, would prevent it from exiting Shadows. Note, since it is a card in Shadows it does not count as an event card being played so something that only cancels events would not be able to cancel it.

So, he is not considering this to be the same as bringing an event out of the shadows and treating it as if it were just "played" for the purposes of canceling it. In fact, he's saying that it's not possible to cancel this with a cancel that targets an Event as the source of the triggered effect.

An interpretation that I wouldn't have considered...

Thoughts?

Posted at

Honestly, it makes sense to me. It's like cancelling Meera. If her ability is cancelled, then she never leaves shadows in the first place. Also, her ability can't be canceled by effects that cancel character abilities because it is triggered while she is in shadows.

Edited by sWhiteboy
Posted at

Huh. Recently, I was pointed to this statement in the Shadows rules as a point that says Paper Shield can cancel a Shadows event:

After an event card comes out of Shadows, it is treated in the

same manner as a non-Shadows event card played from a player’s hand.

| event cards may only be played by marshalling the cards into Shadows.

The reasoning is that if it's treated the same as an event card being played from hand, then an event cancel can cancel it. Damon's ruling seems to indicate exactly the opposite of that.

Edited by doulos2k
Posted at

Huh. Recently, I was pointed to this statement in the Shadows rules as a point that says Paper Shield can cancel a Shadows event:

After an event card comes out of Shadows, it is treated in the

same manner as a non-Shadows event card played from a player’s hand.

| event cards may only be played by marshalling the cards into Shadows.

The reasoning is that if it's treated the same as an event card being played from hand, then an event cancel can cancel it. Damon's ruling seems to indicate exactly the opposite of that.

This is true of Shadows cards that leave shadows (and enter play) before their effect occurs. The difference here is that The Long Plan triggers from inside shadows.

Edited by sWhiteboy
Posted at

Aaah - yes. That makes perfect sense to me now. It's similar to how other abilities that trigger from out of play are handled.

Posted at

sWhiteBoy is correct. This is brought out of the shadows with a triggered effect and triggers from within the shadows. This is very different from it being brought out of the shadows via the framework action and triggering off of itself coming out.

From the Shadows rules attached to the FAQ:

"After an event card comes out of Shadows, it is treated in the same manner as a non-Shadows event card played from a player’s hand. Shadow event cards may only be played by marshalling the cards into Shadows."

The Long Plan hasn't come out of the shadows until after Step 2(Save/Cancel Response), so it won't be possible to treat it like an event card that has been played.

Edited by Bomb
Posted at

Huh. Recently, I was pointed to this statement in the Shadows rules as a point that says Paper Shield can cancel a Shadows event:

The reasoning is that if it's treated the same as an event card being played from hand, then an event cancel can cancel it. Damon's ruling seems to indicate exactly the opposite of that.

Since all shadow events have at least 2 gold costs, I don't think paper shield can cancel them.

Posted at

Huh. Recently, I was pointed to this statement in the Shadows rules as a point that says Paper Shield can cancel a Shadows event:

The reasoning is that if it's treated the same as an event card being played from hand, then an event cancel can cancel it. Damon's ruling seems to indicate exactly the opposite of that.

Since all shadow events have at least 2 gold costs, I don't think paper shield can cancel them.

That is not how it works. The gold cost to put a card into the shadows or to bring the card out of the shadows is not a play restriction to trigger a shadow events effect.

With the exception of The Long Plan, once most of the shadow events come out of the shadows, they normally start with "Response: After [this shadow event] comes out of the shadows, do X."

The play restriction here is that it actually came out of the shadows. There is no additional cost unless it says "pay X gold to do Y" or "kneel X influence to do Y".

So, unless it costs gold or influence to actually trigger the shadow event, it does not have a gold or influence cost.