I finally read over the adventure in the back of DotDG and it was a lot better then I had thought it would be. Heck, I believe I'll be springing it on my players in a couple of sessions. However, one thing in the adventure leaped off the page at me and caused a bit of a "hummm" moment so I was wondering what you guys would do or did if your players...

Upon hearing the widows ultimatum, they look over at the Scion, grab him, get a good arm vein and start siphoning blood out of him and into the chalice until full, slap an Ultra Marine Band-Aid on the small wound, and give the fellow an orange and a cookie. If your players came up with some plan along those lines, what would you do?

Graver said:

Don't let them figure out who the Scion is until 6 hours into the countdown.

As for me, I made the chalice REALLY BIG. And it had to overflow before she would sense that it needed to be lifted to her lips. By really big I mean enough that it could hold a liter of blood and had to be lifted with both hands. Basically I made it very clear that in order to fill that chalice the Scion would have to die.

I used 2 Scions, one was Vymer the bloodsworn, and the other was one of the Acolytes. A very well loved and respected Acolyte to boot. The fun part was watching the players' faces when they realized that there was another scion just before they sacrificed their friend.

What followed was a running gun battle between the acolytes, Greel's mob, and the Malfian Bloodsworn inside the catacombs with the Children of the Kingdom pouring out of the creepy door. I left it on a cliff hanger last week with the Acolytes staring in bewilderment at the crimson embodiment of beauty and death with the words, "Before you floats a woman of unimaginable beauty cast in a crimson glow, on her lips plays a cruel and terrible smile."

Losing a liter of blood is survivable and while making the cup bigger than that will help, advanced medical science/psychic powers can still allow the scion to survive an otherwise fatal amount of blood loss. If that happens, you have two options.

1) Let it happen. The players thought outside of the box and came up with a winning solution.

2) The Widow, who has the stats of an Unbound Daemonhost, is not amused by this attempt to circumvent their doom. The doors and void shields do not open and/or she punishes the acolytes directly with her heinous powers.

Cynical Cat said:

Ouch to the last one. I like it!

While we're at it, how do you best plant clues to the existance and identity of the scions?

Cifer said:

The Crystal encased portrait works well, and the amount of time that passes before it identifies the scion allows for a lot of that sick and twisted Clue type of game with a WH40k flavor.

Another way that I seeded a clue was give the psyker a vision a few sessions before running the House of Dust and Ash. Something along the lines of, "When 13 hours mark the value of your life the scion will be he who hunts for blood and is sworn to that pact."

And also when the scions ran into an area that had the berserk gun servitors the guns went eerily silent. The servitors tracked the scions movement and once they left the area the guns started up again. I was really impressed with the way my players figured it out.

Also describing the scion using the same terms used to describe images of the Haarlocks found within the House of Dust and Ashes.

Cynical Cat said:

Ooh... I like that. If I run House of Dust and Ash again I'll definitely be using that.

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

Don't give me any credit for the idea. It's mentioned in the adventure. I generally dislike pregenerated adventures, but the DH ones have been of a pleasingly high quality that I've been using them.

Cynical Cat said:

... Wow how the heck did I miss that one?... Well color my face red.

I will be reporting to the moderators that you and merely human and fallible. I expect the most severe of punishments to be given.

I shall flagellate myself in penance for my crimes accordingly.

How do you convince your players that willfuly comitting a heretic act (sacrificing the scion for obviously evil powers with obviously evil purposes) is better than dying/searching for another escape? If they're in-character and playing faithful inquisition material, that may prove difficult. I need a way to at least tempt them in reasonably succesful way.

How many corruption points does freeing the widow bestow upon the player? How many insanity points does the whole adventure give them?

How do you convince your players that willfuly comitting a heretic act (sacrificing the scion for obviously evil powers with obviously evil purposes) is better than dying/searching for another escape? If they're in-character and playing faithful inquisition material, that may prove difficult. I need a way to at least tempt them in reasonably succesful way.

You don't. Firstly, the widow mainly asks for a kill - there's nothing too obviously warpy going on and many scum characters won't have a problem selling one life for a dozen others (especially considering that the PCs know most of the attendants to be heretics or worse).

Secondly, even if the characters want nothing to do with the widow, others might not be so noble. If the characters reject the widow's offer out of hand, there's a very simple conclusion to be drawn from this: At least one of the characters is obviously the scion and the others are protecting him.

Werewindlefr said:

They'll die if they don't do it (or find another way out). That should do it. This isn't "give me your soul and get +5 to stat of your choice" this is their lives on the line. If they don't do it and can't find another way out, they get the satisfaction of not having betrayed their principles just before they burn in sea of molten rock.

And in character, if they are a bit coherent with their role (in the case of faithful and rightfully trusted acolytes, which will probably be the majority of acolytes still alive at that level), they'll prefer to die for principles than to serve the daemon. That's extremely common in the imperium, and that's one of the biggest ideas behing the imperial creed: better you die your blood and soul pure.

So, I want to give a decent chance to my players, which means I need to make it non-obvious that by spilling the blood in the chalice, it's a Daemon they're serving.

So, I want to give a decent chance to my players, which means I need to make it non-obvious that by spilling the blood in the chalice, it's a Daemon they're serving.

Is it? I haven't found the word Daemon in any description of the Widow. It only says that her powers in a fight are equal to those of an Unbound Daemonhost.

Cifer said:

Personally I assumed the prophetic powers of the machine came from a trapped Daemonhost forced by the machine to answer questions, encased till a preprogrammed trigger (the blood) was activated. Though you've a fair point it could be something else, a sinister tech from the dark age perhaps.

Based on the Gilded Widow's description of herself, I would say that it is likely a soul (possibly of a powerful psyker) trapped in a heinous sorcerous (or forbidden warp technology) construct. Sort of like those poor bastards the Disciples of Hayte lock up in iron maidens.

Agreed. The description of the Gilded Widow doesn't paint the picture of a daemon, but of someone / something else that is trapped. Heck, I'd go out on a limb and suggest that it might be Erasmus' wife trapped in there. It has a nice resonance to it.

Aside from that part, I'd still give a corruption point for slaying the Scion and freeing her. She definitely has something to do with the warp. As such, doing what she wants would be doing what something in the warp wants, thus furthering the goals of something in the warp... something heretical. If that doesn't give a corruption point, then I don't know what would.

Oh, and thanks all for your suggestions on the Chaliace. After reading the responses and having some time to mull things over, I'm actually leaning towards leaving the challenge as is. If they think they've found a loophole in the orders and bleed the scion into the cup without killing him, I'll let that succeed with a quick congratulations for finding the loophole then a corruption point for assisting a warp entity or heretic achieve their goal ;-) It seems fitting to me.

Ok i've run this and my players didn't exactly follow the scenario to get out. They figured out who the scion was (I had it as Lanus) fairly early on but they had lost track of him by the time they figured it out. The also knew about the amulet.

While searching for him half of the team came across Greel (the guardsman and cleric who had gotten seperated early on). The Guardsman fired a frag grenade at him and oblitorated him 22 damage and I rolled 4 for the rosarius which due to our rules for dealing critical damage killed him but I also had the amulet break in 2. Lesson dont fire explosives at objectives (and dont piss of the GM by one shotting main bad guys ).

So with 5 hours to go they find Lanus but they dont want to kill him feeling that if they do it will be doing the work of their enemies. So they come up with a different plan. Destroy the generators powering the void shield and then leg it towards the skyboat. The Techpriest works out though that if they destroy the generators the Volacano will go off before they reach the surface and kill them all, so the Guardsman stays down there to give them a chance. They agree to set it off in 1 hour. They get back up and realise that they have another problem, the massive doors barring their way. Earlier the Techpriest had jury rigged a trigger for a meltagun that they got from a dead servitor and they had tried to open the Haarlock tomb with it but I had decided earlier it was shielded. The attempt had alerted the Children of the Kingdom that were still in the other part of the tomb and they had abandoned it. So the assassin heads accross the Great Hall to the Haarlock tomb and uses his arial pinions to swing across the ceiling and extract the melta gun, after passing a whole load of Acrobatics and silent move checks he lowers himself down, picks up the meltagun, pulls himself back up, makes his way back across the room and lands with a thud as he fails his last move silently check and starts running. He makes it across the room to the other side and the chilren that followed him are gunned down. The melt through the door hinges but the thickness of it keeps it uprights so they melt the bottom of the door causing it to lean forward before it cools. Melting it again the door falls forward, the trigger holding together (the meltagun had the unreliable quality). They get outside and wait at the void shield for the reactor be destroyed. When it is they leg it full pelt along with Vymer and Quill to the waiting skyship and escape.

I know they probably shouldn't have been able to complete it this way but they were willing to have a character die to achieve it and it was a good idea. I felt it would have been cheating them because the scenario book didn't say it. What do you guys think, would any of you guys let this fly.

Kaihlik said:

Absolutely, you did the right thing. Drama is what the players are there for, not having to answer an arbitrary puzzle correctly. Player drama and involvement is what makes a game successful- if one player was willing to sacrifice his character and the other players are appreciating the sacrifice and the tension and excitement is amped up as they flee to safety, then its a good game.

With any written scenario you have to make it your own- up to and including throwing it out if the interaction between players and GM leads you in a different direction. I had a similar thing where a convention group solved my Silver Dawn scenario (here in the forum as Ordo Xenos adventure) by the Player of the Battle Sister popping all 4 of her frag grenades into the chest cavity of a temporarily paralysed Necron and then lying atop it so the blast woud be contained into their two bodies, finally destroying the Terminator-like machine. That wasnt a solution I'd written into the adventure, but PC self-sacrifce always trumps GM solution!

SJE

Give yourself full marks for good GMing. A scenario should have at least one or two solutions . . . and leeway for the players to figure out something that the designer didn't think of, but should work anyway.

If I were an evil mastermind rigging the death-trap of my enemies, I would ensure the generatoria for the shields trapping my enemies would be on the outstide of their prison. But that's just me

Sounds like a good game nonetheless.

Eh, I think it would be equally as fun to let it fly, except to have the Generator very deep in the burning isle- after traveling far in the labyrinthine Vaults, and concealed within an unmarked tomb. You could plant the clues off the cuff, like a sign deep in the vaults that directs the Acolytes to "A shield to guard the blade of vengeance."

Needless to say, Navigation, tracking, etc. tests galore would be necessary to succeed.