It's also really worth differentiating the game from the component quality in this case. A lot of the ships fly differently, work in cool combinations that are a bit more creative than what you get in X-wing because there's less incentive to balance it for tournaments, and Andrew Parks, one of the designers, has been very active on BGG answering questions, updating FAQs, and generally just being responsive. I guess that's more to do with him as a person than WizKids, but that kind of support isn't something I've ever seen before and really won me over.

I'm probably not going to get the regular groups or quite the level of community play from this game, but it's definitely a lot of fun, and the greater emphasis on missions is also a nice change of pace. It gets a lot of the feel of the different factions right.

As far as swarms go, people talk about it, but I don't see it happening. The science vessel and d7 swarms people predicted don't seem to really work with the relatively high attack to defense dice ratio in the game, and you could potentially put 5 base Jem'hadar attack ships out in October, but I'm skeptical about it being all that great and doubt many people will even care to do it.

It's also really worth differentiating the game from the component quality in this case. A lot of the ships fly differently, work in cool combinations that are a bit more creative than what you get in X-wing because there's less incentive to balance it for tournaments, and Andrew Parks, one of the designers, has been very active on BGG answering questions, updating FAQs, and generally just being responsive. I guess that's more to do with him as a person than WizKids, but that kind of support isn't something I've ever seen before and really won me over.

+1 to this. I've asked several questions over on BGG and the designer always responded within 24 hours. None of this waiting months to figure out if Darth Vader can use his ability if he is on a ship with only one hull left, etc.

I appreciate FFG's procedures given the tournament system they have set up (up to a point... several months between FAQs seems a bit long), but it is nice to get answers quickly re: Attack Wing.

The Attack Wing models are fine... it is what some people are capable of improving on dramatically:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1043209/my-repaints

But if they are going to make you paint them yourself because they hire monkeys, then they should just not paint them at all and charge $4.95 per expansion.

In my opinion Attack Wing is a great game. It is based on a system we like, and it adds enough new things to make it noticeably different (love that some of the ships actually move backwards, for example). It definitely has a Star Trek feel, which was not the case with the Tactics Heroclix game.

I agree the ships don't look as good (still fine in most cases, though), and it's too bad they are not to scale. But, the game itself is definitely worthwhile. I think if they just did some kind off wash on them it would help a lot.

Regarding price, each ship comes with the same number or more cardboard pieces than the X-Wing ships, each ship comes with a unique scenario (some of which are pretty good), and each expansion has more cards than the standard X-Wing expansion. For example, the USS Enterprise Expansion comes with 20 cards. The smaller X-Wing expansions typically come with about 1/2 that. So, what they lack in detail/scale, they make up for with additional content. And, I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had something to say about the price so X-Wing would not be undercut if Attack Wing ended up being cheaper.

I love X-Wing, but I'm also a big fan of Attack Wing.

EDIT: Curious to see if we'll start seeing some of the nice additions in Attack Wing in X-Wing at some point.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that for a second. I would much rather have a bit less of better quality than more of crap. I like Attack Wing, and collect it as well, but people need to stop making excuses for WK and their garbage.

Really, I almost do buy the point that FFG fixed the prices. Excuse or not, it is a bit coincidental that the cost is dead on. Could be that WK saw FFG selling them at that price and decided 'why not?' But there's a really strong point to be made about Fantasy Flight requiring that in the licence contract to prevent AW from being the Budget FlightPath. That really doesn't excuse the quality of models. The excuse for the quality of models is that WK just repackaged the sculpts with sockets for compatability. So, the price point I can understand, but FlightPath players and even general Trek players probably want better for the price point. It's what we expect.

Another point re: price is that you need far fewer Attack Wing ships than X-Wing ships. Most X-Wing squads have 3-7 ships. Most Attack Wing squads have 2-4 ships (and while there may be two or more on one ship form time to time, it is no where near as common as X-Wing). You get more stuff per ship, and you need fewer ships overall, so in the long run you definitely get more bang for your buck.

But, I agree and am not trying to make excuses for WK. I wish the ships were better, too. But, I think there are lots of other great things about Attack Wing that are worth considering in spite of this. And, I think the added value of more cards/options and the need for fewer ships overall is a worthwhile consideration, especially if your main concern is price.

I think Star Trek deserves better than this. Granted the aesthetic is different from Star Wars, but the Trek concept art and production models were really works of art. Yes the Trek ships have smoother hulls and curvier lines, where the Star Wars counterparts are beaten-up and angular, but the Attack Wing mini quality just looks awful. It doesn't look sleek and futuristic, it just looks cheap (not to mention the scale issues).

As the repaints have indicated, Trek ships would benefit immensely from the same care that went into X-Wing (excellent work, by the way, to those who have linked their repaints here). FFG's minis, occasional quality assurance issues notwithstanding, are incredibly detailed, and true to their film counterparts. I would love to see a Trek game, FlightPath or not, with larger capital ships (allowing for smaller NX, TOS-era, and Defiant craft), with a level of detail much closer to X-Wing. The potential, with Trek's legendary ships of the line, is awesome.

Attack Wing just isn't the game Star Trek deserves right now. I hope something better comes along soon.

Few points.

1-As someone who came to x-wing from over a decade of 40k, and has won best painted awards at a few tournaments, I've seen what model quality is. Over on that side of the gaming hobby, pre-paints are all lumped together, and there isn't really any point in splitting hairs over them. Sure the paint job isnt as detailed, but x-wing is far from quality work.

2-Seems like you get more cards in attack wing than x-wing, which is awesome, because I think fantasy flight's system of limiting upgrades to certain ships you may or may not want to buy and forcing you to spend extra is garbage. I don't fly big ships, and I am not about to go buy one just so I can have a stealth device or shield upgrade card to use on my little ones. The impression I get is that this is not much of an issue in attack wing, which is awesome.

Attack Wing just isn't the game Star Trek deserves right now.

But its the game we need.

The ships are what really kills it for me. If it was just one thing wrong I'd be ok. But no scale, lackluster paint jobs AND mediocre sculpts is just too much. Especially for the same price as X-Wing. Then you top it off with WK's ingenious support.

I really wish it was different, I'd love to do huge Trek battles. Maybe we'll get lucky and FFG will get their hands on the rights and do it right. Or a Star Wars capital ship game.

My largest issue with Attack Wing was that the general feeling I got (playing as Breen vs. Klingons) was that you were just throwing more dice with less options to modify them. Maybe it was just how we were playing, but it felt more 'swingy' to me, with ships having a greater chance to be killed outright than in Xwing.

To be fair though, I would totally pay 10 squad points for an xwing equivalent of the energy dispersion array. Who cares if it's range 1 only, someone's getting wrecked.

I've seen what model quality is. Over on that side of the gaming hobby, pre-paints are all lumped together, and there isn't really any point in splitting hairs over them. Sure the paint job isnt as detailed, but x-wing is far from quality work.

Granted, but it's all relative, isn't it? Compared to the models you paint, sure, X-Wing is probably far from quality work. There isn't any point in splitting hairs from your perspective. From mine, though, and many others, there is a significant-enough disparity between X-Wing and Attack Wing. And you, at least, having relegated all pre-paints to the same "lump", certainly can't claim that the Attack Wing minis are better .

But its the game we need.

Agreed, in that it's probably better than nothing. I would still like to see something better come along.

It all comes down to what the value is. I enjoy the game, and the appearance and scale doesn't seem to bother me once the dice roll. The price point is somewhat made up with the amount of cards I get, and the fact they're always fairly relevant to what I bought. While I tend to dislike WK's wide open door logic to cross-faction rosters, it's still nice to have all options open. I just challenge myself to play how I preach, and have to justify to myself why this Romulan Warbird is currently sporting a Federation weapon. It's Trek, so it's not really a stretch.

I also know Wiz Kids is going to deliver on time, and in quantity. So, I won't be punished for not preordering every possible combination I want to play, and then wait another three months for a restock. I love Fantasy Flight, I really do, but let's not gloss over their ability to predict and meet demand. So, after wearing myself out on X-Wing, I have another game, that has entirely different avenues to approach, but provides the same challenge I love with X-Wing.

There are an awful lot of expensive but popular board games out there with low quality miniatures. Trek only suffers from this complaint because everyone treats it like the twin that was dropped on it's head, whereas X-Wing is apparently the twin that became a Doctor and, I don't know, brought peace to the Middle East.

It all comes down to what the value is. I enjoy the game, and the appearance and scale doesn't seem to bother me once the dice roll. The price point is somewhat made up with the amount of cards I get, and the fact they're always fairly relevant to what I bought. While I tend to dislike WK's wide open door logic to cross-faction rosters, it's still nice to have all options open. I just challenge myself to play how I preach, and have to justify to myself why this Romulan Warbird is currently sporting a Federation weapon. It's Trek, so it's not really a stretch.

I also know Wiz Kids is going to deliver on time, and in quantity. So, I won't be punished for not preordering every possible combination I want to play, and then wait another three months for a restock. I love Fantasy Flight, I really do, but let's not gloss over their ability to predict and meet demand. So, after wearing myself out on X-Wing, I have another game, that has entirely different avenues to approach, but provides the same challenge I love with X-Wing.

There are an awful lot of expensive but popular board games out there with low quality miniatures. Trek only suffers from this complaint because everyone treats it like the twin that was dropped on it's head, whereas X-Wing is apparently the twin that became a Doctor and, I don't know, brought peace to the Middle East.

+1, you hit it right on the head. We shoudl be glad wev'e got two great games to play and quit %$*#%^ about it.

When I first heard about Attack Wing, I was dreaming of a Falcon-sized Enterprise, with the same level of detail. I would have bought those sort of ships at $30 no problem.

But I absolutely collect X-Wing due to the quality on top of the design, so Attack Wing never stood a chance with its poor presentation.

What really kills it for me, like most people, is the miniatures. One huge consideration when I buy a miniatures game is the quality of the miniatures as compared to the asking price. X-wing's minis may not be top-of-the-line, but they're at least an 8 out of 10. Attack Wing ships are not even 5/10.

Would it have killed them to produce miniatures that actually look like their on-screen counterparts? The Enterprises are easily the worst offenders in this regard, especially the D. It has very few curves with humongous gridlines. I hate this. I REALLY hate this. I love the Enterprise-D because of the looks, and when the frigging Micromachine has you beat in terms of not only accuracy of shape but detail as well, I have no sympathy. Scale is less of a problem, but when the TOS Enterprise has a saucer diameter approximately half that of the Reliant and Refit, then we have a serious problem.

The guys at FFG clearly research their subjects and makes an honest effort to produce quality work. Look at the X-wing: I've been able to match by eye all the details to the original effects miniatures. Same with the TIE Fighter and all the other ships. The details might be simplified here or there in order to make it easier to mold, but it's all there.

They didn't even bother painting the phaser emitters on the D. It was lazy, through and through, and I see no reason why I should have to pay just as much for lower quality work with no semblance of scale.

Few points.

1-As someone who came to x-wing from over a decade of 40k, and has won best painted awards at a few tournaments, I've seen what model quality is. Over on that side of the gaming hobby, pre-paints are all lumped together, and there isn't really any point in splitting hairs over them. Sure the paint job isnt as detailed, but x-wing is far from quality work.

I disagree as a painter who loves working at 1/300 scale the X-Wing models are really good. I'm currently working on one of the Bombers, using film and 1/74 models as reference and it's amazing how much of the detail they have got into something this size.

Yes the pre-paints aren't perfect, but they are good enough that I don't mind using them to play. And having worked at Games Workshop I would say better than a lot of hobbyists could do.

For me the important things is the model sculpting in X-Wing is very good for this scale. The Attack Wing ones from what I've seen are really simplistic, missing details, and I think I would feel I was painting a happy meal toy if I was to re-paint one.

I'm another Trek fan also but the quality of the ships in this new game really turned me off. The sculpts are mediocre at best, the paint jobs were a waste, but the big killer is the scale! MAKE THEM ALL ONE SCALE!!!

Honestly if I were to try this game out, I would remove all their ships and throw them away and replace them with my Starline 2300 series of ships.

Attack Wing is NOT the game we NEED now. There is no such thing as needing another game. There are already decent ST games out anyway.

Scale is obviously an issue when you go into the wide array of sizes and shapes of capitol ships. Even FFG had to skew the Tantive IV and Rebel Transport to make them fit, a move disliked by many. I loathe defending WizKids on anything, they left me high and dry on too many games after years of investment, but I just enjoy playing Attack Wing. I think, as far as pre-painted miniatures go, Fantasy Flight is the exception and not the rule. I also think if you're not giving the game a chance, as a result of appearance and scale issues, you're missing out on a fun experience. If it isn't enjoyable to you because of an improperly sculpted torpedo launcher that you can't even see when the models are on the table, then that's a shame, but you know what you can handle better than I.

Many of the people who are critical of the modelling, paint and scale issues, are still playing the game in spite of this. Myself and the OP, for example. I feel many of those who are refusing to do so, without even trying the game, never intended to buy it anyways. I tend to find the subject matter and challenge, and game mechanics are more important than the actual sculpts, which is why I prefer these games over those like Warhammer 40K and WarMachine.

Yeah, I don't want to defend the quality of these things, which is bad. There were gaps in my Ent-D and it wasn't even set straight on its peg. But I'm still enjoying the game. If you're mostly interested in the quality of the models, then this isn't the game for you. For me personally, that's what scale modeling is for, and I've had fun doing that too. I'd like to think that people can vote with their pocket book and have an impact, but my limited experience has been that I've gotten angry, denied myself some fun, and the scale of the commercial marketplace is such that short of mass outrage over injured babies and traumatized puppies, we can't do much in the *negative* reinforcement sense.

Here is a link to my review at BGG about some key differences between X-Wing and Attack Wing. Other people have added additional differences in the comments that follow.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1044152/top-10-differences-between-x-wing-and-attack-wing

If you don't like the minis due to scale or appearance issues, don't buy the game (I don't love them, but decided to give it a try anyway and I'm glad I did). And, I'm not trying to sell anybody on the game, just provide information that folks may be interested in knowing.

But, I think there are enough interesting differences between the two that Attack Wing is a worthy game in and of itself (some of which improve the game in terms of strategy and options, some of which are just different and are not necessarily better or worse). It's actually a pretty cool game.

Another point re: price is that you need far fewer Attack Wing ships than X-Wing ships. Most X-Wing squads have 3-7 ships. Most Attack Wing squads have 2-4 ships (and while there may be two or more on one ship form time to time, it is no where near as common as X-Wing). You get more stuff per ship, and you need fewer ships overall, so in the long run you definitely get more bang for your buck.

People think you're getting more bang for your buck, however I feel that is a little misleading.

If you still want all the upgrades, then you still have to buy all of the expansions, and also it seems like the waves for Attack Wing will be available much closer together than X-Wing waves.

Also in X-Wing, you basically get at least four different ships with each expansion, while Attack Wing only gives two.

Of course, some may try to argue that the Captains being separate in Attack Wing creates more options and it does to a degree, but not as much as some are claiming. All of the 1 skill free captains don't count, and a lot of captains are limited (Khan needs a ship with Battle Stations, Gowron only boosts other Klingon vessels in his fleet, etc.).

It all comes down to what the value is. I enjoy the game, and the appearance and scale doesn't seem to bother me once the dice roll. The price point is somewhat made up with the amount of cards I get, and the fact they're always fairly relevant to what I bought. While I tend to dislike WK's wide open door logic to cross-faction rosters, it's still nice to have all options open. I just challenge myself to play how I preach, and have to justify to myself why this Romulan Warbird is currently sporting a Federation weapon. It's Trek, so it's not really a stretch.

I also know Wiz Kids is going to deliver on time, and in quantity. So, I won't be punished for not preordering every possible combination I want to play, and then wait another three months for a restock. I love Fantasy Flight, I really do, but let's not gloss over their ability to predict and meet demand. So, after wearing myself out on X-Wing, I have another game, that has entirely different avenues to approach, but provides the same challenge I love with X-Wing.

There are an awful lot of expensive but popular board games out there with low quality miniatures. Trek only suffers from this complaint because everyone treats it like the twin that was dropped on it's head, whereas X-Wing is apparently the twin that became a Doctor and, I don't know, brought peace to the Middle East.

A pack of 15 Magic: The Gathering cards is only about $3.50 and they are all nice and glossy and colorful.

Attack Wing cards are dark, murky, and generally all around terrible quality. Add to the fact that the miniatures themselves look worse than some of the things that come out of $1 vending machines then that means we're paying about a $10 premium on each expansion just to play the game.

It all comes down to what the value is. I enjoy the game, and the appearance and scale doesn't seem to bother me once the dice roll. The price point is somewhat made up with the amount of cards I get, and the fact they're always fairly relevant to what I bought. While I tend to dislike WK's wide open door logic to cross-faction rosters, it's still nice to have all options open. I just challenge myself to play how I preach, and have to justify to myself why this Romulan Warbird is currently sporting a Federation weapon. It's Trek, so it's not really a stretch.

I also know Wiz Kids is going to deliver on time, and in quantity. So, I won't be punished for not preordering every possible combination I want to play, and then wait another three months for a restock. I love Fantasy Flight, I really do, but let's not gloss over their ability to predict and meet demand. So, after wearing myself out on X-Wing, I have another game, that has entirely different avenues to approach, but provides the same challenge I love with X-Wing.

.

Really? Wizkids on time? Pretty certain they have lots of delays. And there are more factors to why the models are ripoffs than the paint and sculpt quality. You can get each and every sculpt of Attack Wing for a third of the cost, retail, and if you are lucky. Granted, their licensing agreement probably prevents them from undercutting X-wing, but still. For a lot of these sculpts, it is the third time they are using the sculpt. Now, since FFG is getting into repaints, may not be as large a stone to throw, but at least the sculpts are still good and only used for this one game.

It appears that FFG has gotten the supply down fairly well now. I look at the stock Miniature Market has left, and yeah, I think FFG has an idea of how much X-wing to make. Though reprints will always happen, do to the stuff still selling. And that is probably why they included such an obscure and unforeseen option in the Moldy Crow for Wave 3. To gauge how obscure EU stuff will sell, in order to prepare for Wave 4. Only having one ship being shorted is a lot less of an issue when compared to a whole wave.

As for "all open", just remember, that only applies to what you have. Good luck if you want the OP prizes. And based on the new kit revealed, very powerful unique cards are going to be handed out, and never seen again. And the less said about DS9 the better. And really, based on the amount and timeframe Wizkids is releasing stuff, how well will reprints go if needed?

Oh, and the less said about encouraging a "sealed" type format with this type of game the better.

Here is a link to my review at BGG about some key differences between X-Wing and Attack Wing. Other people have added additional differences in the comments that follow.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1044152/top-10-differences-between-x-wing-and-attack-wing

If you don't like the minis due to scale or appearance issues, don't buy the game (I don't love them, but decided to give it a try anyway and I'm glad I did). And, I'm not trying to sell anybody on the game, just provide information that folks may be interested in knowing.

But, I think there are enough interesting differences between the two that Attack Wing is a worthy game in and of itself (some of which improve the game in terms of strategy and options, some of which are just different and are not necessarily better or worse). It's actually a pretty cool game.

Yes it's a good game. But should that give WK a free ticket to cut corners and cheap out and sell us garbage?

The bottom line is if people keep saying, "Meh, Attack Wing is still fun so I don't mind spending just as much money as I do on X-Wing in the long run, even though the product is severely inferior quality-wise" then WK will just keep selling us lemmings garbage.

You've not read everything I've already written about cost. Attack Wing will be cheaper in the long run because you don't need as many of each ship (or as many ships total). Plus, you get more variety for your buck (more cards, scenarios, ships, etc). I also only needed 1 Attack Wing starter since they gave me enough dice to actually play the game in most instances (5 of each rather than 3 of each). And, while the ships don't look as good, the rest of the components are high quality (and, most of these ships seem less likely to break than X-Wing ships, and none seems more likely to break than X-Wing ships). And, there is no real incentive to buy additional starters for the ships themselves. I currently have 40 X-Wing ships. It will be a long time before I need that many Attack Wing ships (and by then I'll have even more X-Wing ships).

I'm not trying to make excuses for WK (some off the models look fine to good to me scale aside, and some look terrible -- i.e., constitution class enterprise is a complete disgrace). I agree 100% with you here. I wish they all looked at least pretty good if not perfect or to scale.

you don't want to buy it because you are mad at WK about the models, that is fine. I like the game, think it adds some nice things that X-Wing does not have, and am happy to have it in spite of the lower quality models (the game itself, especially the additions and changes, as well as the other components are high quality).