The X-Wing Dials are a plain color on the back, with a slight cross hatch but even with that the cross hatch has 4 fold rotational symmetry. The fact that Attack Wing is played for prizes that have significant resell value. I know that most people can't card count, but in high prize tournaments the number that people that can goes up significantly. And when you want that DS9 or Khan card I can see people doing it. All I was saying is I think there is a reason the X-Wing ones have a plain back, and if I was a games designer it would be the choice I would make, as I'm pretty sure if I put my mind to it I could read dials casually across the table, I was very good at reading marked cards at distance in my youth.

Having run quite a few tournaments in my time, I've seen people do a lot to win at any cost. Heating up range rulers and stretching them. Using GW dice for moral checks and Poker ones for all other rolls (as GW rounded cornered dice have a small bias towards rolling 1). The unit moving shuffle, where you move a unit forward then take it back to the starting point (but a tiny bit forward of where it originally was) then repeat until you are in range. OR my absolute favourite, "I guess 36 inches", measure "I was right on, 30 inches" and then just claim the opponent misheard you as you have a greek accent.

DANG there goes my chance of having the LEXX.

Can I just say I fairly enjoy Attack Wing, for all its flaws? Yeah it's got the worst production value possible, but **** if it isn't at least fun . Though who knows, maybe after Saturday I'll play a different tune on this flute.

Also, solution for the dials. Just permanent marker the back of it so you can't see the ship or something. Like the entire thing.

Noteworthy, if there's one thing Attack Wing has that's better, it's the dice. They don't short-sell you on dice so you have to buy two starter kits and lemme' tell ya' dude, those dice are pretty. I love the marbled look.

Love it.

They tried fitting the original series enterprise to scale, I felt ripped off because it was so tiny. I want to try attack wing, but i bought all the models for tactics and can't bring myself to do it again

You compared a Defiant to a Galaxy and then compared a Galaxy to a Warbird. Compare a Defiant to a Warbird. Even if the current Defiant model's size were cut in half, the Warbird would still be what FFG considers a large ship. Sorry, but if you start asking people to pay $30 on average for each model, and especially the $80 or so that FFG is chargine for the Tantive? You're not going to have a game that sells at all.

Look at the ships in the chart again. Most of them are smaller than the Galaxy, even the TNG-era ships.

Just where in my post did I mention anything regarding pricing? Nowhere, because the pricing has nothing to do with the sizes of Trek ships. It therefore was outside the scope of my point, which was addressing the scale differences between ships in Trek. My point, as it stands, is that the size ratio between the largest and smallest ships is nearly the same as X-wing, excluding the monster that is the D'Deridex class Warbird. But pricing would be the same as it is now, if you make certain ships large and the rest small.

Looking at my 1:2500 ship model kits, as well as trying to remember the names and relative sizes of others, I would price them as follows (keeping with X-wing's formula of small ships = $15, large ships = $30, huge ships = $80, assuming a baseline size of Constitution = 1.5" and accounting for the relative sizes of all small, large, and huge ships in X-wing, and the fact that Star Trek ships would have far fewer components to manufacture for each miniature):

Constitution, Refit, Miranda, Constellation, Excelsior, Intrepid, Sabre, Defiant, Steamrunner, Klingon Bird of Prey, Vor'Cha, D-7, K'Tinga, scout-class Bird of Prey, Romulan Bird of Prey, Romulan Scout, Galor, Kheldon: $15 each

Ambassador, Galaxy, Sovereign, Akira, Valdore, Negh'Var: $30 each

D'Deridex: $80

How is that any less affordable than X-wing?

The Warbird is the only real anomaly, and could be shrunk slightly to account for it in order to make it a Large ship instead of a Huge one, but the rest could be manufactured in perfect scale with one another AND be affordable. The fact that the size range is nearly the same as X-wing proves that (in fact, it is actually less than X-wing if you include the third dimension). The powerhouse ships would be more expensive, just like in X-wing, but then they're also powerhouses. They should be more expensive. The Galaxy and Sovereign are equivalent to the Millennium Falcon, with the Refit and Miranda equivalent to the X-wing.

Again, there is no excuse for scale problems in this game, because their size ratios are less than X-wing.

They tried fitting the original series enterprise to scale, I felt ripped off because it was so tiny. I want to try attack wing, but i bought all the models for tactics and can't bring myself to do it again

Actually the TOS Enterprise is incredibly out if scale. The ship was 289 meters in length. The Enterprise A was 305 meters in length. The Reliant is 234 meters. This info is all readily available from canonical sources.

The TOS Enterprise for Attack Wing is horribly out of scale.

Jim

I really like the tokens and things that came with attack wing - We got a planet token, as well as a minefield, and some objectives with broken ships and stuff - They are a nice add to X-wing... granted you could print your own...

The flippable shield tokens, the Disabled tokens, are all terrific ideas. I WISH X-Wing would straight up steal that minefield!

Noteworthy, if there's one thing Attack Wing has that's better, it's the dice. They don't short-sell you on dice so you have to buy two starter kits.

Um, yes they do. They only give you five of each, but it's pretty easy to need 6, 7, and even 8 attack or defense dice.

And at least X-Wing gives you the option to buy the dice separately if you want (although two starters is the way to go since it gives you more ships cheaper, too).

You have to buy two starters in Attack Wing to get extra dice.

I have nothing against either company or system. I do have my preferences so that's how I choose to spend my money

Question: The MtG/WK/WotC typical tourney is/was to show up, buy a booster(s) and play. Would you do compete if that was required for Star Wars? You have to buy another ship and include that in your build?

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1045363/another-op1-event

Simple answer for me is no. If I had to buy another ship to play in a tourney, I wouldn't play in it.

I agree with much of what has been said. If you are only going to buy one of the games. I would recomend X-wing. And they are very similar in game mechanics. However I think both games are worth buying. There are more than a few subtle changes in Attack Wing that make it feel quite different.

However I do have to complain about the figs. I new they were going to not be top notch (like x-wing), but I had previously bought a few of the Wizkids HeroClicks Star Trek Ships. I assumed that the models would be the same. They are not. I don't have a lot of the exact same ships, but I have a D-7 in both games. The HeroClix D-7 is way better. It has a whole for its torpedo launcher for example. Come on Wizkids, why did you make your models worse?

Noteworthy, if there's one thing Attack Wing has that's better, it's the dice. They don't short-sell you on dice so you have to buy two starter kits.

Um, yes they do. They only give you five of each, but it's pretty easy to need 6, 7, and even 8 attack or defense dice.

And at least X-Wing gives you the option to buy the dice separately if you want (although two starters is the way to go since it gives you more ships cheaper, too).

You have to buy two starters in Attack Wing to get extra dice.

Well shoot.

Who buys just dice anyway? I'd rather just get another set (When it comes to X-wing that is! Can never have enough X-wings and TIEs!)

Oh well, Attack Wing's dice are prettier. I'd like that style for X-wing.

I have both games and am by no means a hardcore fan of either genre. That said I find attack wing is much more fun to play! I mean, it's got TRIBBLES FFS....TRIBBLES!

Attack wing just seems to have a few more options and nice little touches than x-wing imo,cloaking, nice little flip over shield counters, etc. and I can't explain it but gameplay just seems a whole more thematic and atmospheric than any x-wing games I have played to date

As for the card quality, they seem to be the same fabric style as the cards from Star Trek fleet captains and I have played these to death with no problems. The card stock also seems to be thicker and unlike some people have mentioned I assembled the manouvre dial from the starter pack and 1 of every expansion without a sniff of a problem.

Regarding the ship detail, I think it's more the fact that the paint jobs are a little, well, crap, the detail considering the ships in trek are more battleships rather than the fighters of x-wing is more than acceptable, try and imagine a corvette an inch and half in length now try and imagine just how much detail you could cram into it before it starts to look ridiculously busy

As I say, detail wise they ain't half bad, quick re-paint of the federation ships picking out the panels, etc. and we have these

One more great thing about attack wing is that if you own fleet captains, soon as the matching ships are released tack a square of card on the bottom, quick scan here, quick print there and you have several fleets ready for action!

Couple of nice space station models which are a good size for the game too, the classic k7 and the ds9 kits, needless to say, in the post!

All that said, I will continue to collect both games as I am a hopeless hoarder!

Btw, re-painted the fleet captain ships, they are guilty of basic paint jobs out of the box too

other than the Flight Path system....there is no comparison!!! IMO. Xwing!

I picked up Attack Wing on a whim and we played our first game. With very slight and few changes, it is identical to xwing. The components and ships are not up to par with FFG as many have pointed out. They were not as bad (components wise, ships yes are bad) as I have heard but certainly sub-par to FFG.

Some have claimed it captures the capital ships well and does so better than xwing to fighters. I think those comments are rubbish. Movement wise, both systems do fine. If anything I would fault Attack Wing for awful firing arc coverages that does not befit capital ships in Star Trek.

My other fault of Attack Wing is the near total lack of defensive dice. In most cases you wind yourself getting hit by 4-6 attack dice and have but 1 maybe 2 defense dice in response. It becomes a who shoots first, wins first game. Being cloaked offers the only real defense as you gain 4 defense dice.

AW is definitely a fast play system, but for Star Trek I believe there are better systems that capture capital ship combat better like A Call to Arms: Star Fleet or FASA: Tactical Starship Simulator. The FASA one is more involved than ACTA but certainly less hassle than Starfleet Battles.

I would still play both games, X WIng and Attack Wing, but I will not be making as much of a contribution to AW as I have with XW.

I did pick up Attack Wing just to participate in the Dominion War OP events....I have to admit, it is fun. And I didn't need to learn a whole new system, I literally bought the starter set jumped into the month one event and went 3-0 :-) . I do like the self replicating mines!

As it stands, I will always play Xwing over AW...since I love the SW universe!!

I watched a few games because there wasn't anyone else around to play X-Wing at the time. I watched a few 1v1 skirmishes and a 2v1 furrball style game. These people had basically just purchased the kits and a few expansions. I'll probably never buy anything from Attack Wing because I saw the following:

* Starter sets don't come with enough dice to defend while cloaked. I believe it was 5 dice for a Romulan ship and the core set only came with 3. Sorta looks like you're required to buy 2 sets.

* 2 movement dials broke, just out of the package.

* One of the players was missing a few tokens, straight out of the package.

* There is no detail on the models; they look like $0.02 micro-machines. I don't come from a miniature or painting background, but even my untrained eye can see they basically did a base coat + 1 color job.

* The scale is so ridiculously off, it's not even funny. The small ships are basically 1/10th of a planet. You could probably fit just 10 ships or so on top of the planet "token". Even the tiny enterprise, which looks silly on the table, has the same base size. How was I the only one that thought that was wrong??

* Any captain in any ship? Kahn? Really? Not only is that wrong thematically, but it completely breaks the balance.

* Speaking of balance, I hear there's a formula to the point system. Sounds like it should make it easy to game...

I don't know if WizKids is required to charge the same as X-Wing, but you definitely get much better quality from FFG.

The fact that you take captains/upgrades from other factions (you pay a 1 point penalty) is broken. I like the idea of swapping captains between different vessels but it needs to stay in faction, that goes for upgrades also. You should never see a Constitution class federation cruiser armed with plasma torpedoes.

A LOT of people have issue with the scale, especially the micro sized Constitution class Enterprise. Looks more like a shuttle.

I told the LGS I would participate in the Dominion War OP's, as long as it does not conflict with x-wing! But certainly not looking to drop big bucks into it.

The scale problem could have been solved by using the same two-base system FFG does, or maybe three different sizes: ships that are between 30-100 meters get a tiny base, 100-500 meters get the regular base, and 500+ ships get a large base.

But the core of the problem of scale is that there really isn't a problem with scale. Take a look at this size comparison chart:

Notice the size difference between the Defiant and the Galaxy classes, which are more or less the benchmark for attack ship sizes. It's about the same difference mass-wise as the X-wing and Millennium Falcon miniatures for X-wing:

And the X-wing is bigger than the A-wing!

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to fudge the scale. Even if they bring in the Romulans with their enormous Warbird, that's still only twice the length of the Enterprise-D:

You could possibly utilize FFG's system for enormous ships by mounting it on two bases.

Now that I have decided to go for that full Trinity of my favorite Sci-Fi Universes , this scale issue is a fun challenge. I have figured it out, and now I just need to buy the ships. Needless to say I will be gathering models from everywhere , to make them as close as possible to relative scale.

Me poor wallet...

Now here's a question: Would it help people's opinions of the miniatures if they considered them to be pre-basecoated instead of prepainted?

Not really for me, I don't look at the paint work as I'm a painter, they are really low detail compared to the original TV and Movie models, far lower than they should be.

That is why I am going to do the game big with the variety of models I have hunted down this week.

You should never see a Constitution class federation cruiser armed with plasma torpedoes.

Well since Star Trek canon is broken in regards to the classic series and movies 2-6 I personily only care and count the above mentioned as primary canon but include StarFleet Command1&2, Star Trek legacy, Shatner novels, Scotts guide to the Enterprise, and movies 1,7, and animated series.

The Intresting thing about Star Fleet command 1&2 is that it shows the Feds ally themseleves with the Gorn Confederation. Gorn are turly the only race allied with the Feds that use Plasma torps, they even share the smaller type plasma torps with the Feds. So having Fed ships with Plasma Torps is ok by me going by my canon

I would like to see the gorn confederation in this game, their battle ships are the star destoryers of the classic ST. I wouldnt be surprised if their dial was nothing but red except forward 1.

Also I would love to see a Enterprise class starfighter carrier. Wizkidds could pull the rules from BFG concerning carriers, fighters, bombers, torp bombers, and boarding craft. It would need a bit of mod done however.

Here are the undersides. Again, my Y-Wing is pretty rough. But note that they simply painted the deflector dish on the Galaxy class, one of their most iconic ships, with sloppy red and blue paint. It's not even modeled.

It's sad that that model for the Enterprise-D looks just like the Star Trek Tactics model.