Rather mulled this over, and Eldar would not be terribly out of place in the retinue of a radical inquisitor...

Sure, but the actuall issue here is what constitutes a playable retinue.

To use 1e comparison, an Eldar wouldn't feel out of place in an Ascension game, but would stick out like a sore thumb in a core DH game, because Ascension was all about Inquisitors rolling up their sleeves and dealing with things personally, with the aid of their powerful personal retinues, while core DH was about haphazard bands of people gathered by the Inquisitor and sent off on different errands, usually incognito.

The real question is, what vision of the Inquisition and the party's place in it will 2e support.

Rather mulled this over, and Eldar would not be terribly out of place in the retinue of a radical inquisitor...

Sure, but the actuall issue here is what constitutes a playable retinue.

To use 1e comparison, an Eldar wouldn't feel out of place in an Ascension game, but would stick out like a sore thumb in a core DH game, because Ascension was all about Inquisitors rolling up their sleeves and dealing with things personally, with the aid of their powerful personal retinues, while core DH was about haphazard bands of people gathered by the Inquisitor and sent off on different errands, usually incognito.

The real question is, what vision of the Inquisition and the party's place in it will 2e support.

Please not Ascension, please not Ascension, please not Ascension...

Rather mulled this over, and Eldar would not be terribly out of place in the retinue of a radical inquisitor...

Sure, but the actuall issue here is what constitutes a playable retinue.

To use 1e comparison, an Eldar wouldn't feel out of place in an Ascension game, but would stick out like a sore thumb in a core DH game, because Ascension was all about Inquisitors rolling up their sleeves and dealing with things personally, with the aid of their powerful personal retinues, while core DH was about haphazard bands of people gathered by the Inquisitor and sent off on different errands, usually incognito.

The real question is, what vision of the Inquisition and the party's place in it will 2e support.

Please not Ascension, please not Ascension, please not Ascension...

Well, the now-defunct beta supports playing as an Inquisitor straight out of the corebook, and the announcement of the upcoming overhaul claims that functionality will be retained, so there's that for Ascension style of play.

That said, what really set Ascension apart was the assumption of what kind of an Inquisitor you got to play, and it leaned quite clearly towards the old Witch- and Daemonhunters codices' vision of the Inquisition - awesome badasses with HQ-worthy statlines easily requisitioning entire armies (at least in the TT meaning of the word "army") for support, wielding Daemonhammers and holy Inferno Pistols, clad in Inquisitorial Power Armor etc.

The elite advancement from the beta seems more in the vein of Inquisitors from novels - early Eisenhorn, Ario Barzano from Nightbringer and the like. Guys with a small trusted entourage, perhaps some unique ability, and loads of experience in rooting out enemies of Man, but generally keeping a low profile, and performing far below the TT supermen.

It references another game (one of my favourites) which is also based in a totalitarian society where being a commie, a mutant, or a traitor will get you executed.

Remember, the Computer is your Friend! I love Paranoia. One of the most fun games I've had was running what has since become known as "the Lightbulb Incident". See here for details:

http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=49816

I can't say I mind the ability to have both militant and subtle inquisitors - both have their place, and indeed an Inquisitor may have to switch from one role to the other as the situation demands.

I don't think even Ascension inquisitors are that powerful in martial terms; Vindicere/Primaris types, definitely, but the desperados and Inquisitors were neither unnaturally tough nor unnaturally heavily armed.

And what about Abhumans? Maybe we can't have Orks, Eldar and Tau running around in an Inquisitorial warband, but we can have Ogryns, Ratlings, Afriel Strain and their ilk to do it... And we have some pretty interesting choices here too, like Felinids (catmen), Pelagers (some sort of aquatic humans), darksiders (Riddick!) and of course Those Who You Can't Name.

All the ones mentioned in the latter half of your post are just names in a rulebook and nothing more though, and I doubt GW is willing to let FFG expand on them, unfortunately.

All the ones mentioned in the latter half of your post are just names in a rulebook and nothing more though, and I doubt GW is willing to let FFG expand on them, unfortunately.

Darkstriders and the... uhm... Not-Space-Dwarves are established abhuman races.

Anyway, it is not like they can't just make up new ones. And FFG has been messing with major GW stuff since Deathwatch. I'm pretty sure that they could get away with some random expanded abhuman fluff .

Squats have been written into obscurity though, and I doubt GW are willing to let FFG change that. As for Darkstriders, the only thing I can find pertaining to that name is the Tau special character.

Really I think people overestimate how much freedom GW give to their licensees. Any fluff which even remotely steps on the toes of established GW lore seems to be quickly vetoed, as far as I can tell.

Squats have been written into obscurity though, and I doubt GW are willing to let FFG change that. As for Darkstriders, the only thing I can find pertaining to that name is the Tau special character.

Really I think people overestimate how much freedom GW give to their licensees. Any fluff which even remotely steps on the toes of established GW lore seems to be quickly vetoed, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, I messed up their name, sorry . It is actually Nightsiders . I should play less with the Tau Master Race... It is creeping over me like a bad cold.

Then Deathwatch shouldn't exist I suppose. It turned the organization from Ordo Xenos Inquisitorial retinue to strike teams of space marines who just happen to wear black and the Deathwatch symbol. And they also have Khornate Night Lords and Tzeentchain Alpha Legionnaires... Sheees, we are talking about the two greatest, canonically established Undivided Legions here...

Yup - or OW's female Vostroyans, or the segregation into "Astartes" and "civilian" weapons, etc...

Aside from some very few basics such as, say, the Emperor being a dessicated corpse, or the Blood Angels wearing red armour, the setting's background seems surprisingly liberal even when it comes to details. What matters is that the "tone" of the setting is preserved, less so its details. And that's why a lot of the licensed products such as novels are conflicting with each other and/or Codex fluff as soon as you look a bit closer and discover stuff like Dan Abnett's emotional servitors and 9-feet-Marines.

"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."

- Andy Hoare, on Black Library novelist Aaron Dembski-Bowden's blog

Funny thing: Squats have resurfaced as an abhuman variant in the 6E tabletop rulebook. Technically, there's no reason FFG could not at least try to pick up on this. Or you as a creative player/GM.

And what about Abhumans? Maybe we can't have Orks, Eldar and Tau running around in an Inquisitorial warband, but we can have Ogryns, Ratlings, Afriel Strain and their ilk to do it... And we have some pretty interesting choices here too, like Felinids (catmen), Pelagers (some sort of aquatic humans), darksiders (Riddick!) and of course Those Who You Can't Name.

Frankly, I'm really surprised that they never produced rules for Abhumans in DH1 (other than the 'Hive Mutant' background package in The Radical's Handbook ). Not sure why it took them until Only War (the fifth game in the line!) to get around to this obvious addition to the rules...

Frankly, I'm really surprised that they never produced rules for Abhumans in DH1 (other than the 'Hive Mutant' background package in The Radical's Handbook ). Not sure why it took them until Only War (the fifth game in the line!) to get around to this obvious addition to the rules...

Funny thing: Squats have resurfaced as an abhuman variant in the 6E tabletop rulebook. Technically, there's no reason FFG could not at least try to pick up on this. Or you as a creative player/GM.

I feel like Squats are going to have to remain a thing for creative groups. GW seem intent on burying them, even considering that little nod in the codex. Squats are very much part of the old, goofy 40k that GW have tried their hardest to make people forget about. And ultimately, anything FFH do does have to be GW approved, unless they want to lose their license pretty **** quickly. I think the best we'll get in official material is the occasional nod from one of the cheekier writers.

And ultimately, anything FFH do does have to be GW approved, unless they want to lose their license pretty **** quickly. I think the best we'll get in official material is the occasional nod from one of the cheekier writers.

Just one thing: Dawn of War games (especially DoW2). They literally cross-raped the fluff and they still have the license.

Now, compare the Khornate Librarian to the expanded fluff of some random footnote in the TT BRB...

There's canon material supporting Khornate librarians, actually. Albeit Relic's one was a bit of a fuckup, but in older material. Khorne didn't hate psychic powers on principle, he hated them for their methods; skulking in the rear lines, relying entirely on their mind to fight.

The name eludes me, but I distinctly remember a Khorne warband which had sorcerers, they were just required to lead from the front with chainaxe in hand, using their powers to augment themselves and their allies, not to do their fighting for them.

Obviously in 40k there's no fixed canon, but I've always much preferred that interpretation of things. Much more interesting than KHORNE H8 MAGIK.

Nononono, there was never such a thing like Khornate sorcerers. Never. Khorne has always hated psykers and sorcery.

Also, the Khornate Librarian was just one thing. The list is endless, from the 100 Baneblades to the random Gauntlets of Ultramar popping up in the Blood Ravens armory.

Nononono, there was never such a thing like Khornate sorcerers. Never. Khorne has always hated psykers and sorcery.

Considering how insanely inconsistent 40k's fluff is, you're right. So am I.

Nononono, there was never such a thing like Khornate sorcerers. Never. Khorne has always hated psykers and sorcery.

Considering how insanely inconsistent 40k's fluff is, you're right. So am I.

Touché !

I honestly can't remember where I got that info from, anyway, so I'm at a lack of sources. Lexicanum does say that the Blood Pact have psykers, though, so there's that.

In addition to their fearsome weaponry and vehicles, the Blood Pact have special psykers known as Gore Mages. These dark wizards can possess Blood Pact warriors with Daemonic spirits, turning them into ferocious, almost unstoppable creatures that they call Blood Wolves. Also, Gore Mages radiate a sense of irrational fear and have access to many other powers involving blood.

Brought to you by the Abnettverse.

Those "Gore Mages" were thankfully absent from the Index Hereticus article GW published in White Dwarf. For at its core, the Blood Pact is a rather cool idea.

And ultimately, anything FFH do does have to be GW approved, unless they want to lose their license pretty **** quickly. I think the best we'll get in official material is the occasional nod from one of the cheekier writers.

Just one thing: Dawn of War games (especially DoW2). They literally cross-raped the fluff and they still have the license.

Now, compare the Khornate Librarian to the expanded fluff of some random footnote in the TT BRB...

I can't believe I'm having this conversation again on this same forum, but here we go.

Don't use the word **** to describe choices in artistic direction you don't agree with. Using the word **** for anything other than what the word actually means is not okay.

e; apparently "r-a-p-e" is censored, but "fluff-raped" is not. Nice clbuttic mistake FFG.

And they also have Khornate Night Lords and Tzeentchain Alpha Legionnaires... Sheees, we are talking about the two greatest, canonically established Undivided Legions here...

I assume you're talking about Black Crusade's Tomes when you mention Khornate Night Lords and Tzeentchian Alpha Legion? Because, despite being presented in the Tomes pertaining to those gods, they are still firmly unaligned. Every tome so far has had one Legion alligned to the titular god and one Unaligned shoehorned in due to vague thematic resonance (well, not so much vague in the case of Alpha Legion, whose methods are definitely pleasing to the Changer of Ways).

And ultimately, anything FFH do does have to be GW approved, unless they want to lose their license pretty **** quickly. I think the best we'll get in official material is the occasional nod from one of the cheekier writers.

Just one thing: Dawn of War games (especially DoW2). They literally cross-raped the fluff and they still have the license.

Now, compare the Khornate Librarian to the expanded fluff of some random footnote in the TT BRB...

I can't believe I'm having this conversation again on this same forum, but here we go.

Don't use the word **** to describe choices in artistic direction you don't agree with. Using the word **** for anything other than what the word actually means is not okay.

e; apparently "r-a-p-e" is censored, but "fluff-raped" is not. Nice clbuttic mistake FFG.

Thank you for making a post that has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand over something that many people are not taking offense at. Seriously cps you need to stop making these posts because your not going to get your way, you end up hurting conversations, and you have no authority to censor anyone.

Now back on topic. I would wish that they at least do abhumans and for radicals mutants again in dark heresy 2.0. I would love to see a ratling sniper doing work in some hive world that isn't Only War. Hell I can dig a squat being a advisor to a inquisitor in some new colony world that the squats taken over. So many things you can do with adhumans.

Still I want kroot mercenary options. There has to be at least one inquisitor that needs a strong, stealthy, and perceptive fighter that can act like a garbage disposal unit to take care of any "unwanted heretics". You can't deny how useful that is.

Thank you for making a post that has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand over something that many people are not taking offense at. Seriously cps you need to stop making these posts because your not going to get your way, you end up hurting conversations, and you have no authority to censor anyone.

You're 'hurting conversations' by replying. If you're really worried about cps taking things so grossly offtopic, your best bet would be to simply not reply. Replying provokes more argument, which is only going to exacerbate the issues you're having.

I realise the irony of this post, but **** it, I feel like this kinda needs to be said. Last I'll weigh in on the argument, anyway. cps is totally in the right, for the record.

Regarding the Kroot Mercenary thing, the issue is that ultimately, regardless of how people choose to use Dark Heresy, it's primarily meant to be an investigation focused game. Kroot don't work well for espionage, investigation and the like, because it's basically impossible to blend in with an alien in the group.

Still I want kroot mercenary options. There has to be at least one inquisitor that needs a strong, stealthy, and perceptive fighter that can act like a garbage disposal unit to take care of any "unwanted heretics". You can't deny how useful that is.

It's funny, because the TT Kroots regressed into Catachan Jungle Fighter clones (they have exactly the same stats as the old Catachans) with better guns. So if we go with the "FFG should follow the TT changes" thing then you can wave your Unnatural Strength goodbye with your Kroot. And at that point, they wouldn't really have a role humans couldn't fill.