I think we only need one faceless horde of communication devoid xenos, really.

Two counterpoints:

1. The Necrons hardly qualify as "horde"; quite the opposite, actually.
2. The Tyranids are basically just animals.

If anyone felt an overwhelming urge to ruin a specific faction, out of the two, I would've preferred the Tyranids to go the way of the dodo. They contribute virtually nothing a random xenos species going hungry hungry hippos wouldn't be able to pull off with their hands tied behind their back.

The only thing remotely interesting about the Tyranids is genestealer cults.

Really? Where are you from and how sheltered has your life been? Because to me, that's a fairly "normal" way to be. I recommend any kind of working-class slumming to get a point of reference.

Like MaliciousOnion said, what you describe pretty much sounds like a football hooligan. A regular run-of-the-mill football hooligan.

As reprehensible or crazy as such a mindset may be, it really shouldn't be alien to you. You want alien, try the Pre-Ward Necrons.

Norway, and yeah, we have hooligans and fighting here. But they don't find the fighting fun, they find hurting the other person fun. And the hooligans know it. And they know the guys they fight don't like to fight as much as they like to win. And they do have a concept of peace. I get parts of it, but the complete lack of understanding of how the opposition views the entire ordeal of getting the **** beaten out of them is hard to fathom.

Necrons alien? They were robots created to kill living things, seems pretty much like most sci-fi robots. I don't get the big deal, different, yes, but very understandable.

Of course factions like Eldar/Dark Eldar, Orks and Chaos, (Tau) are pretty much their equivalent in space and therefore quite human in their mindset and behavior. (in regards of structure) Because of that roleplaying these factions is possible for advanced role-play groups which are ready to get into these cultures and prepare their characters and campaign carefully. So a specialist rpg seems plausible.

Really alien are just the nids and maybe some fully fledged Chaos creatures. Necrons have sadly been humanized, which I sense as a loose of fluff potential. Of course they were planned to fill the topic of an undead army but they were very much the cold and incomprehensible alien AI before the recent fluff change. Now they have become the real equivalent of an undead army with stupid executing foot troops and intelligent conscious leaders with human reason and motivation D:

I prefer aliens which are truly alien to the human mind like the entities of Lovecraft, the Inhibitors of Alastair Reynolds or maybe even the xenos of Alien (even if they are more animal like). The pointy ear and funny outfits of the week which appear in soft scifi like Star Trek or Babylon 5 are in the end just "other cultures" of humans and appear unintentionally ludicrous and boring for a fan of harder science fiction.

A loss of fluff potential? Before they had absolutely no character, they were just midless automatons bent on destroying everything. They could have easily been a grey goo type of threat and they would have had the same level of personality.

Basically, by making a race of xenos unknowable, you're making it difficult for some people to define their motivations. By giving them character, a person can look at them and say, "ok, I know what they want and I know how I can use that." I'm not saying that everyone's going to face this problem of an unknowable xenos race but a lot more people will be able to understand a knowable one.

A loss of fluff potential? Before they had absolutely no character, they were just midless automatons bent on destroying everything. They could have easily been a grey goo type of threat and they would have had the same level of personality.

Basically, by making a race of xenos unknowable, you're making it difficult for some people to define their motivations. By giving them character, a person can look at them and say, "ok, I know what they want and I know how I can use that." I'm not saying that everyone's going to face this problem of an unknowable xenos race but a lot more people will be able to understand a knowable one.

They were a race of cosmic horror. Death Incarnate.

Aliens might have motivations but these should be alien, non comprehensibly for humans. Through that, one can achieve horror and creep especially the horror of the unknown.

In this they were kind of similar to the tyranids but portrayed very differently. Instead of loud, fast and strident all consuming life, necrons were silent, slow, cold and emotionless death. Their behavior was to destroy life in the galaxy and that was enough to know.

Now they are just another alien empire with leader, feudal hierarchies, power games, diplomacy, alliances and internal warfare. Cosmic horror gone for good. D:

In addition they were great adversaries for Chaos because they clearly represented an opposite in everything what chaos stand for. (Chaos - raw emotion vs. Order - cold, emotionless, logic)

Now they can have very human motivations and feelings which I see more connected to chaos gods.

So for me this egalitarianism of the different factions and concepts is a loose in fluff potential.

Did you read Fall of Damnos? It's a novel with newcrons, slightly predating the codex, and it still reads very much like cosmic horror from humans' perspective. At the same time, it reads like a gothic horror when it shows how Necrons view things.

Newcrons are this awesome race that once ruled the stars and which achieved ultimate power at the price of their bodies, souls and sanity, and which deals with the issues this creates in spectacularly mad ways.

At the same time, the face they show to other races is still that of incomprehensible, silent ranks of skeletal warriors marching forth and destroying everything with cold, calculated hate and technology so advanced, it might as well be magic.

All the stories you could tell with oldcrons, you can tell with newcrons, but there's also a myriad other stories you can tell now that you couldn't have earlier.

A loss of fluff potential? Before they had absolutely no character, they were just midless automatons bent on destroying everything. They could have easily been a grey goo type of threat and they would have had the same level of personality.

Basically, by making a race of xenos unknowable, you're making it difficult for some people to define their motivations. By giving them character, a person can look at them and say, "ok, I know what they want and I know how I can use that." I'm not saying that everyone's going to face this problem of an unknowable xenos race but a lot more people will be able to understand a knowable one.

Why would you need to define their motivations? Their motivations are supposed to be alien. And that's how you use them.

I haven't read that one but I think I'm going to now. Sounds pretty cool.

Also, Fgdsfg, your signature tickles me pink every time I read it.

I haven't read that one but I think I'm going to now. Sounds pretty cool.

I found it pretty enjoyable. Not really a great novel, but it has several cool characters. The 'Cronz are wonderfully over the top, and the Ultramarines are in this nice middle ground between untouchable angels of death and just some dudes in power armor. Both sides kick serious butt, and Necrons having personalities perfectly adds to the horror, especially Sahtah the Enfleshed.

Don't know what your stance on Ultrasmurfs is, but they get their behinds handed to them something fierce, which is noteworthy in a 40k book by itself.

Did you read Fall of Damnos? It's a novel with newcrons, slightly predating the codex, and it still reads very much like cosmic horror from humans' perspective. At the same time, it reads like a gothic horror when it shows how Necrons view things.

Just the term "Newcrons" was worth the read, thanks for that.

If I may present MHO, if you don't mind twisting the "official version" a little bit, it is entirely possible, as I do in my own little vision of the setting, to have both Newcrons and Oldcrons, with a part of the race presenting self awareness and a great mass of unthinking and unfeeling killer eldritch Terminators. In particular, I was thinking of a mission for DW (when I get back to GMing it) with Space Marines caught in a war between both factions.

I believe BL has thought of something on these terms, actually.

On the original thought, I would love to see rules for playing as xenos (HERESY). I do not think it meshes with the main theme of the game, but it would be a very interesting option. It seems to me that it could make a very interesting source book, however. I'd certainly buy an Eldar Source Book, if I could be certain no Inquisitor was watching.

There actually ARE provisions in place for Oldcrons to exist, anyway. The codex mentions corrupted tomb worlds which behave more or less identically to the pre-5e Necrons.

I think the REAL issue with the new Necron fluff is how much they ****** over the C'tan.

I think the REAL issue with the new Necron fluff is how much they ****** over the C'tan.

Yep, I agree. I liked the hints that the C'Tan were supposed to be the 'terrible Lords of Order'- enemies of Chaos but almost as dangerous to humanity. But since they were neutered they are just... what? 'Magic items'...?

I think the REAL issue with the new Necron fluff is how much they ****** over the C'tan.

Yep, I agree. I liked the hints that the C'Tan were supposed to be the 'terrible Lords of Order'- enemies of Chaos but almost as dangerous to humanity. But since they were neutered they are just... what? 'Magic items'...?

The way I see it, C'tan are still the same Lovecraftian monstrosities they were in the old fluff. It's not that they became neutered - it's that Necrons became much more badass for destroying them.

From my perspective, it makes perfect sense as a story arc for the race entirely consumed by their technology. With technology, they found their gods. With technology, they killed their gods. As far as cosmic horror goes, this idea is much more terrifying (yet also perversely enticing) to me than a bunch of Terminators preparing Cthulhu's meals.

The way I see it, C'tan are still the same Lovecraftian monstrosities they were in the old fluff. It's not that they became neutered - it's that Necrons became much more badass for destroying them.

From my perspective, it makes perfect sense as a story arc for the race entirely consumed by their technology. With technology, they found their gods. With technology, they killed their gods. As far as cosmic horror goes, this idea is much more terrifying (yet also perversely enticing) to me than a bunch of Terminators preparing Cthulhu's meals.

I agree, but there's a wider universe that is affected by the change, and I don't think in a good way.

But... To be perfectly honest it just rubs me the wrong way that what started out as a silly Tomb Kings in Spaaace! sort of thing way back when, and then got turned into something much more 40K that meshed fantastically well with the overall setting, suddenly got turned back into a more Tomb Kings'y Tomb Kings in Spaaace! than ever.

- Yes, I loathe the Tau too because despite fluff I can sort of mostly get behind (though they're kind of redundant - they're more or less pre-Crusade humans without the Omni-Tech), the visual design is much, much too close to - in my very strong opinion - idiotic anime.

I guess it's especially painful to me because I feel like there's 3 perfectly good ex-armies floating around in limbo they could have brought back instead (I'm one of those lucky wargamers who pulled the Squat, 'Stealer Cult, Arbites dead army hattrick).

Oh GW.. Love you for all the nerd raeg & emotional turmoil you inflict with each new edition... Not.

I kinda like the Necrons from what i seen of them. Oh not talking alien skeletons, but what happens if you bow to beings that call themselves gods. A glimpse into the possible future of mankind if they all bow to the chaos gods. The only question is would man emerge from that war to live on as a mere shadow of their former selves like how the necrons turned out, or will the chaos gods bring mankind to extinction? That is down right creepy if you think about it.

If your going to change the necrons though I would make the vast majority be soulless killing machines with only a few necrons that still retain a soul. Have that xeno explained to the acolytes how the great necron were fooled by so called star "gods" and almost destroyed the galaxy through war. I bet the inquisitor could put that necron into good use. Possibly a lesson to other acolytes and inquisitors.

If your going to change the necrons though I would make the vast majority be soulless killing machines with only a few necrons that still retain a soul.

This is more or less how it is now, as I understand it. Warriors and similar rank and file troopers have pretty much zero personality or initiative, the sentience ramps up as you go further up the ranks.

If your going to change the necrons though I would make the vast majority be soulless killing machines with only a few necrons that still retain a soul. Have that xeno explained to the acolytes how the great necron were fooled by so called star "gods" and almost destroyed the galaxy through war. I bet the inquisitor could put that necron into good use. Possibly a lesson to other acolytes and inquisitors.

IIRC, no Necron has a soul after biotransference. Higher castes are fully sentient (but prone to madness and memory loss after each resurrection), lower castes barely understand what's going on outside their combat programming (but can still go mad).

I was thinking more like two types of necrons. You got the hive mind killers that goes all the way up to the highest caste. Just lifeless, soulless, and driven to destroy all life. Then you have tiny amounts of necrons that belong to no caste cause they still retain that bit of sanity even if it is barely holding on. Those necrons don't have armies to lead, but they retain so much memory of the ancient galaxy even if they lost most of it. See where I am going with?

Yeah, and I don't think it's particularly enticing.

Silent, dispassionate genocide is still Necrons' primary way of communicating with other races. Those few Lords inclined to share their thoughts with organics are all criminally insane and dangerous in their own demented ways.

I think it's much scarier to know there is, in fact, sentience behind those silent, mindless hordes - but there's still no reasoning with it, because it just hates your guts.

Helloes.

Me and the gang really like Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and being able to roleplay in its glorious Universe is a Emperor sent blessing...

But sometimes we feel like playing humans, all the time, is just a little bit lacklustering. Especcially when we all know there are so many cool races out there in the galaxy to purge, I mean play.

To cut short: Please, why not release an edition where you can actually play more then just humans. LIke this little list?

Because Dark Heresy is a quintessentially human-centric game. What you suggest is heresy.

And heresy is treason! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!

Interrogator Z.

Helloes.

Me and the gang really like Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and being able to roleplay in its glorious Universe is a Emperor sent blessing...

But sometimes we feel like playing humans, all the time, is just a little bit lacklustering. Especcially when we all know there are so many cool races out there in the galaxy to purge, I mean play.

To cut short: Please, why not release an edition where you can actually play more then just humans. LIke this little list?

Because Dark Heresy is a quintessentially human-centric game. What you suggest is heresy.

And heresy is treason! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!

Interrogator Z.

This post is really fun to read if you imagine it said by an 8 year old firing finger guns at the mean old person spoiling his game.

Except for the fact he is right. Dark Heresy is human centric to the fault. Seriously walk on any Imperium world as a xenos and see how far you survive. In dark heresy where it is your job to stay in the background and thus be quiet about things being a xenos ruins that because you stick out more.

Now if they make Rogue Trader 2.0. By all means release as many xenos as you want.

I think before they add more races they need to work on getting the Adeptus Arbites back in (including the rank of Arbitor Senoris which they brazenly left out of 'Book of Judgement') as well as the Adeptus Sororitas.

Helloes.

Me and the gang really like Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and being able to roleplay in its glorious Universe is a Emperor sent blessing...

But sometimes we feel like playing humans, all the time, is just a little bit lacklustering. Especcially when we all know there are so many cool races out there in the galaxy to purge, I mean play.

To cut short: Please, why not release an edition where you can actually play more then just humans. LIke this little list?

Because Dark Heresy is a quintessentially human-centric game. What you suggest is heresy.

And heresy is treason! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!

Interrogator Z.

This post is really fun to read if you imagine it said by an 8 year old firing finger guns at the mean old person spoiling his game.

Ha ha, I like that image CPS. It's a bit of a personal meme (if there can be such a thing) which I ended quite a number of posts with back when I was busier arond these parts. It references another game (one of my favourites) which is also based in a totalitarian society where being a commie, a mutant, or a traitor will get you executed.

Interrogator Z.

Rather mulled this over, and Eldar would not be terribly out of place in the retinue of a radical inquisitor...